Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

[Ralei]

I think the fact that he asks to be reassigned early on helps clue you in to the coming conflict. And you always lose -1 anytime you bad mouth Baras in front of him. I could almost imagine my sw saying mean things about Baras just to see if Quinn would react.

 

This romance has thrown me through a loop. He's definitely the hottest romance option of all the classes, so I was immediately like "YES I'LL TAKE THAT PLEASE". You know it's easier to love someone when they're so damn hot. I ALWAYS feel bad about killing good looking npcs. I REALLY wanted to romance Lord Draahg

 

He was also the first non-force sensitive character that my SW didn't look down on. He really impressed her with the way he handled the jedi on Balmorra. I never felt impressed with Torian or Andronikus or Doc or any of the other helpless men. And then Vector is the only one I ever got emotionally attached to during a story.

 

I'd love to do a QA with the writer so he/she could clear some things up. I think it's pretty mandatory that they address it in chapter 4. The worst thing that a writer could do is leave the reader unsatisfied at the end of a story.

[Kaisernick]

i have an idea for quinn that would work out well

 

now we all know the emperors hands and that the hand known as two has a few bolts missing from his hyperdrive.

 

i think it would be fun to have the option to make quinn into a hand thus reducing his mind and makeing him a 100% obideant servant of the emperor.

hed still be usefull as a healer but would have been punished i think.

 

 

failing that a head set that is simply a slave collor would be fun to have on him as it wouldnt impact gameplay but would show that you no longer see him as an equal.

[Katahn]

With adaptive social gear you can give him the head slot item that looks like a shock collar. That's what I plan to do. I've already told Pierce to "keep an eye on him" (Quinn) to which Pierce said Quinn won't even go to the Fresher without Pierce knowing it.

 

Quinn never leaves the ship except in my company, period. I will deny him all future companion missions that involve him leaving the ship on his own. If I could have killed him, I would have - I wouldn't mind equipping the ship droid and certainly could deal with one less companion.

[Kaisernick]

now that we have seen this new planet mekeb and i can guess it will continue our class story (if only small) the big question is what now?

 

will quinns betrayl be delt with, will HK-51's first target be him, will there be any mention of it at all?

[DemonMoMana]

I like that! It really would add just that 'little bit more' tot he overall narrative of that arc. yes that would work perfectly!

 

@bright_ephemera: I found that nice music video you made, for your Quinn romance experience. I have to say, I liked it allot.

 

I dont know kinda hard to make a comeback from trying to kill your wife to be. With all his preparations he could have won, I know--not the storyline but still. If he loved her the thought of killing her should have been unbearable. Therefore he didnt love her. Rather disappointing for a softie romantic like me. I dont see how she could stand him around much less turn her back on him again. Have kids??? yah right!

[Breech]

I'm agree 100% with the tittle of this post. Quinn's betrayal makes no sense, and it's a punch in the belly with the story.

"I betray you"

"I forgive you"

"ok, now let's no talk more of this bussiness ever again"

 

Seriuosly, ***?! I've a lot of imagination, but this is just stupid. Vette has nothing to say about it? And Pierce? He wants to beat the **** out of Quinn since he comes aboard. And when Quinn finally becomes a traitor, what's it's reaction? He does nothing.

 

BW really don't go well with changes. Yeah, I'm tank and he's my healer, but man, I have the robot, or Treek right now to heal me. I want to kill him. However, there're ways to make this a lot more believable. Putting a slave collar to Quinn, for example, and give Vette (she loves me, you know XD) the button. Or make Pierce beats him, and watch for him the entire day. Lock him in the quarters, without anything but water and some pills, make Jaesa torture him with his own fears to see if he's telling the truth (you know, she has that gift) demote him to soldier or even discharge him for the imperial military for ever. That would be... 3, 4 maybe 5 lines of dialogue and some short scene? It's necessary. Because without that little scene, it's just a very big plothole.

 

So, if we can't kill him, and BW can't add anything related, just cut it out. It makes no sense.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Here's what I think happened you were probably able to kill him in the beta, But then people realised how much they needed quinn being a healer and all and imo your most valuable one. Because they did say people did complain in the beta after they had killed their companion and made tickets about getting them back

 

This forum sometimes makes me hate people that were involved in the Beta.

 

They complained about certain aspects of the game that were then cut, making the game less interesting than it might have otherwise been. The ability to kill some companions was one of those things. Another was the people who wined about their Dark Side Jedi getting the General title instead of Master , even though it makes zero *********** sense for a Dark Jedi to be made a master or be appointed to the Jedi Council.

 

(I don't actually hate them. I just turned up the hyperbole because this is the internet. When in Rome....)

[Mournblood]

If Quinn was actually going to betray you, do you think he would have used -droids- to try and kill your character? I mean, he's seen what you've done to droids... he's seen what you've done to Jedi. No, if he was going to betray you he would have gotten you while you were asleep or just destroyed the station from your ship.

 

Sith would do such a thing. You wouldn't because you don't understand subtlety or the idea of -not- giving up a valuable resource.

 

I agree and disagree with you.

 

Quinn betrayed you, pure and simple. It doesn't matter if he only half-assed it, or whether that was intentional or not. He chose to side with Darth Baras, thinking he'd end up winning in the end, and he was wrong. Allowing him to live isn't a matter of choice - it's simply a precedent you can't allow as a Sith Lord, especially as the Emperor's Wrath. It invites sedition and sends a message that there's no real consequence for screwing you over. Who's going to fear you if you're willing to forgive and forget betrayal? It's also similar in a way to the premise of law. One of the main purposes of laws is that it creates a deterrent for socially unacceptable behavior. Most people don't break the law because they are afraid of the consequences. It's the same idea here. If there are no real consequences for betraying you, you're only inviting it because people won't be afraid to do it. It works the same in other aspects of life. If you let people take advantage of you, it will only continue as others will do so as well.

 

On the other hand, I do wholeheartedly agree with you that the biggest problem with the Empire is not only the in-fighting, but also their propensity to waste valuable resources. Killing someone because they failed you through no fault of their own is stupid, and we see that time and time again from the Imperial perspective. Yet I don't believe for a second that there isn't some other Imperial Captain out there just as talented as Quinn but far more loyal who could replace him. That replacement would also be far less inclined to betray you if they knew they were replacing someone who was executed for making that very mistake.

 

In summary, while I agree that it is incredibly short-sighted and ultimately does not serve the interests of the Empire to kill everyone who irritates you, or to needlessly waste resources for personal gain, you have to draw the line at betrayal. Quinn's betrayal should not have gone unanswered, and sours the story. In my opinion, there was a lot of missed story opportunity there to see him appropriately punished. In our story, he wasn't even demoted for his actions.

 

Here's how I would have written that part of the story.....

 

After surviving Quinn's betrayal, Lieutenant Pierce arrests him on your orders, and you confront him in front of your crew on your ship. In unbridled anger, you Force choke him as you charge him with his crimes to both you and the Empire, informing him that there will be no military tribunal, for the Emperor's Wrath is both judge and executioner. Captain Quinn admits his guilt, and his regrets, between his gasps for air. You finally release him, exchange a few more words of disappointment about the wasted talent, perhaps remarking on how his divisiveness helped reveal Darth Baras' treachery. Members of the crew chime in with their reactions. You can then choose to either kill him quickly via light saber, or Force push him into the airlock and release him into the vacuum of space.

 

As Imperial Command looks for a replacement for you, you are later contacted by Imperial Intelligence who have learned that the real Captain Quinn was captured by SIS over a year ago and was replaced with a conditioned clone to both gather intelligence on the Emperor and the Dark Council, and to subvert their plans by helping to sow discord amongst their ranks. Imperial Intelligence helps you locate him whereupon you embark on a mission to rescue the real Quinn, and succeed, adding him to your crew. As he heals from the trauma of torture and captivity at the hands of the SIS, you discover that the original Captain Quinn is fanatically loyal to the Empire, and to you.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mournblood

[Aeneas_Falco]

I think what Bioware should have done from the beginning is making the ship's droid, who can accompany you as a companion, functional as either a tank, healer, or DPS. Have it be selected through a toggle as well, rather than needing to gear him.

 

That way the ship's droid could fill in as a replacement for anyone who killed Quinn, but needed a healer, or killed Skadge, but needed a tank. Ect, Ect.

 

As for Quinn's betrayal, I think they should have provided three options on how to deal with him. The first should have been killing him outright, at the end of that fight. The second should have been sparing him. The final option should have been to spare him as well, but through the use of dialogue prefaced with (lie). On that route Quinn would remain a companion with your Sith intending to kill him after he is no longer useful. At the end of the Sith's class arc you'd then get a scene with Quinn where your Sith can either serve his revenge cold, revealing that he or she planned to kill Quinn all along, or change his or her mind and spare Quinn, having come to believe over the course of the class arc that Quinn had redeemed himself.

 

The lie dialogue could have resulted in a fun scene down the line, and would have been in keeping with a dark side Sith who is a bit of a schemer.

 

Quinn: Have I redeemed myself, my lord? I hope I have repaid your mercy by performing all my duties to your satisfaction.

 

Sith Warrior: Indeed you have, Quinn. You have exceeded all my expectations. Your services are no longer required. (force choke)

Edited October 13, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco

[josephinec]

I have never understood why we couldn't kill Quinn, other than the "don't kill your healer" argument.

Any dark side Warrior would have executed him on the spot. Even my Light side Juggernaut gave him the "I'll see if you can still be useful" line. In my canon, her boyfriend( a friend's character) killed Quinn sometime after the incident.

I honestly don't see how you could forgive someone for betraying you to your worst enemy and try to have you killed for said enemy. Doubly so if you romanced that spineless Imperial captain.

[RinjiRenee]

I think the fact that he asks to be reassigned early on helps clue you in to the coming conflict. And you always lose -1 anytime you bad mouth Baras in front of him. I could almost imagine my sw saying mean things about Baras just to see if Quinn would react.

 

This romance has thrown me through a loop. He's definitely the hottest romance option of all the classes, so I was immediately like "YES I'LL TAKE THAT PLEASE". You know it's easier to love someone when they're so damn hot. I ALWAYS feel bad about killing good looking npcs. I REALLY wanted to romance Lord Draahg

 

He was also the first non-force sensitive character that my SW didn't look down on. He really impressed her with the way he handled the jedi on Balmorra. I never felt impressed with Torian or Andronikus or Doc or any of the other helpless men. And then Vector is the only one I ever got emotionally attached to during a story.

 

I'd love to do a QA with the writer so he/she could clear some things up. I think it's pretty mandatory that they address it in chapter 4. The worst thing that a writer could do is leave the reader unsatisfied at the end of a story.

 

Much agreement with this post.

 

I love Quinn as a character. He's well-written IMO -- I mean, people either really love him or really hate him, and I think that's a narrative success. The betrayal and lack of options to deal with said betrayal is a problem, but it seems related to gameplay-story segregation which I think may be better addressed in KOTFE (allowing us to make alliances if we wish, or in some cases kill characters off allegedly). Not only was Quinn our healer, but companions are tied to our crafting skill as well.

 

But yeah anyone not seeing his betrayal coming from a mile away wasn't paying attention. In context, Baras merely lent you Quinn, and the fact that Quinn remains pretty quiet after Baras betrays you on Quesh, and gives disapprovals when SW says they want to kill Baras are huge red flags. And the aforementioned request for reassignment was something, too.

 

I liked Doc okay (was a bit of a foil for stick-in-the-mud jedi), and agree about Andronikos and Torian being a little lackluster. Vector is excellence ♥ He and Quinn are probably my top Imperial companions for sure.

[Spetulhu]

I love Quinn as a character. He's well-written IMO -- I mean, people either really love him or really hate him, and I think that's a narrative success. The betrayal and lack of options to deal with said betrayal is a problem, but it seems related to gameplay-story segregation.

 

Or just somewhat rushed writing. His loyalty to Baras requires that he betray you even if he doesn't want to, and that we can gather from existing dialogue. But it could have been expanded a bit. His "ambush" was pretty laughable after all - what did he actually hope to accomplish? IMO he was looking to commit suicide by Sith Warrior. Making you angry enough to kill him fast would solve all his problems. Death would put him beyond any revenge from Baras and he'd have died doing his duty.

[Mournblood]

Or just somewhat rushed writing. His loyalty to Baras requires that he betray you even if he doesn't want to, and that we can gather from existing dialogue. But it could have been expanded a bit. His "ambush" was pretty laughable after all - what did he actually hope to accomplish? IMO he was looking to commit suicide by Sith Warrior. Making you angry enough to kill him fast would solve all his problems. Death would put him beyond any revenge from Baras and he'd have died doing his duty.

 

That's conjecture since there's no plausible way he could succeed for the story to continue - it's your character we're talking about here. So we can interpret that in whatever way suits us, but it doesn't change the fact that he betrayed you by trying to kill you for Baras. The competence of the attempt, or his true intentions behind it, are irrelevant. As I mentioned in my prior post, the story should have given us a way to address the betrayal in manner befitting a Sith Lord, not like some high school classmate.

[SithKoriandr]

That's conjecture since there's no plausible way he could succeed for the story to continue - it's your character we're talking about here. So we can interpret that in whatever way suits us, but it doesn't change the fact that he betrayed you by trying to kill you for Baras. The competence of the attempt, or his true intentions behind it, are irrelevant. As I mentioned in my prior post, the story should have given us a way to address the betrayal in manner befitting a Sith Lord, not like some high school classmate.

 

One could easily argue, if he was trying to kill you, he would have sent two champion level droids and not the two weak droids he did

[bluehufsa]

Totally disappointed. When Quinn betrayes you, there must be choice to kill him permanently. How can a sith lord keep traitor aboard? Its nonsence. If Bioware thinks that he is fully punished just by little non-fatal choking and some scolding for betraying a SITH who killed ppl just for a pair wrong words, then Baras' betrayal can be handled the same way, lol. Just send to Baras an angry holo message, and its done. Totally ruins roleplay and now this 'storyline' for me is just a way to farm levels till max, i dont believe in it anymore.

 

 

There's no killing him option because some female characters romanced and still love him - my marauder for example. There is only passion + a temperamental sith female = Quinn not killed.

[Valaryn]

I'm not that far with my Sith Warrior yet but having watched the romance videos over and over again (mostly because I get a kick out of them) I feel that Darth Bares (sorry if I mispelled his name) didn't leave Malavai with any other alternative but to betray his wife. Don't get me wrong the idiot needed to be punished for what he did but I think killing him is a bit drastic. I think the option to chock him to the point of death is enough to open his eyes.

[thebumpkin]

To me not killing Quinn seems out of place. I know that as a Sith you don't HAVE to kill everybody in sight, and my SW has not done that. But Quinn made a botched attempt on killing me, and then I have to let him live?

 

Quinn might be a valuable resource and I acknowledge that but, nobody is irreplaceable. What would my standing in the Empire look like if I allowed a traitor to live? Other Sith would think you weak and foolish. So I did "kill" Quinn, I stuck a full face cover on him, changed his appearance and that was it. Quinn was dead.

 

I hope that in KOTFE when you do catch up with Quinn the SW gets the option to kill him. As lets face it, its 5 years overdue.

[JediAkemi]

To me not killing Quinn seems out of place. I know that as a Sith you don't HAVE to kill everybody in sight, and my SW has not done that. But Quinn made a botched attempt on killing me, and then I have to let him live?

 

Quinn might be a valuable resource and I acknowledge that but, nobody is irreplaceable. What would my standing in the Empire look like if I allowed a traitor to live? Other Sith would think you weak and foolish. So I did "kill" Quinn, I stuck a full face cover on him, changed his appearance and that was it. Quinn was dead.

 

I hope that in KOTFE when you do catch up with Quinn the SW gets the option to kill him. As lets face it, its 5 years overdue.

 

Killing him in KotFE just strikes me as petty. It should have been reinstated as an option at the point of betrayal, because no other way makes sense to me.

 

By the same token, they should have put it (back?) in that Bounty Hunters can kill or reject Skadge on Belsavis. I never understood the need for that brutish turd anyway. Blizz was a much better tank, and Skadge should never ever EVER have made it onto my relatively Light Bounty Hunter's ship.

If he shows up again in KotFE, every single one of me is going to reject him... how fatally I reject him depends on which character I'm playing, but none of me want him.

[josephinec]

As someone who completely despises Quinn(I tend not to like speciesists, sorry), I will admit killing him at KOTFE will be quite petty. That being said, any Warrior of mine who does KOTFE will not welcome him back to the ship and would have a "Malavai Quinn: Rejected" achievement in their legacy. This is, of course, assuming he is just an alert, not a part of the story, and that we actually have, you know, a choice to reject him.

[JennyFlynn]

I doubt he'll be a mere alert. He's a LI and thus far those have returning with a main presence in the actual Chapter. Not doing the same for Quinn would cause a lot of uproar and make little sense.

[Venn_Dras]

To me not killing Quinn seems out of place. I know that as a Sith you don't HAVE to kill everybody in sight, and my SW has not done that. But Quinn made a botched attempt on killing me, and then I have to let him live?

 

Quinn might be a valuable resource and I acknowledge that but, nobody is irreplaceable. What would my standing in the Empire look like if I allowed a traitor to live? Other Sith would think you weak and foolish. So I did "kill" Quinn, I stuck a full face cover on him, changed his appearance and that was it. Quinn was dead.

 

I hope that in KOTFE when you do catch up with Quinn the SW gets the option to kill him. As lets face it, its 5 years overdue.

 

If you decide to just go alone to the ship with Malavai rather than have another companion tag along its a little more believable that you'd let him live. Other than the Warrior, no one else is aware of his betrayal. Because of his skills, he is still useful. To kill him at this point without having a replacement at the ready is not something a smart Sith would do.

 

However, there is a way to make sense of killing him off in KOTFE. After whatever purpose he's served in the mission is over, he's lost his usefulness. There are plenty in the Alliance who are able to take his place. As Tremel said in the Prologue:

 

Once something is used up, it must be eradicated.

 

[thebumpkin]

I disagree about it being petty to kill Quinn in KOTFE. I think its justified, once a rat, always a rat, and if he rats you out to Arcann that will have dire consequences to that tub or lard Baras.

 

As far as the hatred Skadge gets, yes, he's a brute, a thug, a douchebag too. But he's never betrayed the Bounty Hunter.

[Asheris]

I disagree about it being petty to kill Quinn in KOTFE. I think its justified, once a rat, always a rat, and if he rats you out to Arcann that will have dire consequences to that tub or lard Baras.

 

As far as the hatred Skadge gets, yes, he's a brute, a thug, a douchebag too. But he's never betrayed the Bounty Hunter.

 

he would for a handful of credits. Quinn obviously put more thought into it

[Seireeni]

I disagree about it being petty to kill Quinn in KOTFE. I think its justified, once a rat, always a rat, and if he rats you out to Arcann that will have dire consequences to that tub or lard Baras.

 

As far as the hatred Skadge gets, yes, he's a brute, a thug, a douchebag too. But he's never betrayed the Bounty Hunter.

 

Quinn has no reason to rat you out to Arcann. He had to choose between betraying Baras or betraying the PC, and he decided to betray the PC. Unless we find out he's been a faithful servant of Arcann all these years (and I highly doubt it, considering how patriotic he is towards the Empire), the situation is not similiar at all.

 

It could, of course, be written in a way that killing Quinn would make sense. For example, he could still be fighting for the Empire and accidentally target some ex-pubs who now work for the alliance. The player gets to kill him for his betrayal all those years ago, and the PC has the justification of revenging his men.

 

Not that I care if there's an option to kill him or not. No way in hell I would ever kill Quinn.

[grania]

Chapter 4 is going to be amazing.

 

This line from 2012 made me feel a bit sad.

 

Anyway, I'm playing swtor again mostly to see more story with Quinn and my warrior. It was always the class story that impacted me the most. It sure will be interesting to see how they handle this particular reunion, since players want such drastically different things from it.

Edited April 27, 2016 by grania