Vervayne Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 NO to instanced. Instanced is NOT open world PvP. They just need a bolster effect in place to fix the imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgabu Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yet if the Republic were in the same situation they would do the same exact thing. Please remove yourself from your high horse. The Horde pulled the same crap in WoW that you're trying to here and even though I played Horde it still irked me. No where did Andryah say it wouldn't be the same in reverse. Judging from his posting, I'm sure he would agree it would be the same. Basically let's all be honest with ourselves and realize that a lot of players want to go with the path of least resistance. Currently, that is playing Imperials or coming on the forums ************ about the lack of imbalance on their said server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hmmm.. well if everyone does it, then it's not actually a problem then is it. What a silly counter argument for you to make. Billy killed Jimmy, so I killed Rodger.... Comparing murdering someone to how people act in PvP? Classy. It's a completely valid argument. Sorry, buddy. Your sense of honor? Doesn't belong in a video game. Video games are about winning, not winning well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuichix Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Soon it will be Empire standing around wondering where the Republic is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkiii Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Certainly Bioware had nothing to do with the design and performance of the classes, which lead to the imbalance. Common sense indeed. My Jedi performs just as well as my Sorcerer. However I enjoy my Jedi more. Nice generalization though ... Still not Bioware's fault for people making a choice at the faction selection screen. No matter how you spin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babyduck Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I bet you folks felt like accomplished heros too didn't you? It is this kind of mindset and behavior that is the problem. No self control, no sense of play, just gank, corpse camp, and brag about it. IF imperials actually want balanced open world PvP, make a sport out of it, not a gank fest and corpse camp. No imagination. I wanted to get my mission done and grouping was the fastest and easiest way to accomplish that. Faction imbalance was not caused by me and I can do nothing to correct the problem. I also had nothing to do with the decision to implement the missions we now have to do in that zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrsmurf Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 What changed exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 As predicted, Ilum will alienate the PvP community. Reps won't be stepping upon Ilum territory anymore in 2 days, and Imps won't be able to complete dailies for absence of enemies. It is beyond my comprehension how developers cannot understand the simple mechanics of PvP. It's beyond comprehension to me that the player base cannot see that THEY are doing silly things to kill their own experience in the game YET they will whine about it and demand that Bioware prevent them from doing it. Yeah, this is biowares fault. If Imperials outnumber Republic so badly and they really want to complete their dailies, then they will start to show some restraint and stop gank-camping. Or not. It's up to them. bioware can make tweaks and adjustments (and I am sure they will), but if the sociopaths want to distort and break game mechanics, there is literally no way to stop it, other then to let natural selection balance out behaviors over time on the servers (like in every other MMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinely Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bad setpiece PvP in WoW (battlegrounds and arena) has made people forget how open world PvP works. And population imbalance is hardly Biowares fault. People choose a side they want to play. Nobody forces them to, and Bioware forcing people to choose a side they don't want to play would be a huge fail. (I play Republic, so no accusations are required). This has been going on since MMO PvP started. Example: On any given night, back in the old DAOC days, there would be 2 or 3 times as many Albion as there were Midgard or Hibernia out in the frontiers. Albion would still get their rear ends handed to them quite often. Example: On any given night, back in Vanilla WoW, Alliance would outnumber Horde on a regular basis at least 2:1 on most servers. Alliance would still get pounded more often then not. Learn to perservere and overcome. If you simply play to the zerg, then you get zerged. If you play static set piece engagements, then numbers win. If you show some imagination, you can beat the zerg even when it outnumbers you significantly. OR, maybe just go play Huttball where you have a sanitized dumbed down PvP environment. /2cents How exactly would you beat the Zerg on Ilum? This isn't DAOC. You can't kite a larger army across a zone because Ilum is small. You can't use double caps to split an enemy force because Ilum is small. You can't feint in one zone then jump to another because there isn't another. You can't team up with another faction to restore balance because it's all Red v. Blue. I'm sure you were plenty clever in DAOC and vanilla WoW. SWTOR is neither WoW nor DAOC, so those clever strategies are moot. Tell us your "imaginative" way of facing down 5:1 odds in Ilum. Until you can do that, your post has not point short of inflating your ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vervayne Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How exactly would you beat the Zerg on Ilum? This isn't DAOC. You can't kite a larger army across a zone because Ilum is small. You can't use double caps to split an enemy force because Ilum is small. You can't feint in one zone then jump to another because there isn't another. You can't team up with another faction to restore balance because it's all Red v. Blue. I'm sure you were plenty clever in DAOC and vanilla WoW. SWTOR is neither WoW nor DAOC, so those clever strategies are moot. Tell us your "imaginative" way of facing down 5:1 odds in Ilum. Until you can do that, your post has not point short of inflating your ego. Clearly we need an AoE mez and a tower to wrap the zerg around. Miss those days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfonsoG Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well time to go for Datacron hunting. Have Fun on Ilum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooledy Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Soon it will be Empire standing around wondering where the Republic is. It doesn't matter because the Empire will just sit in the middle for two hours trying to loot items, which allows people to complete the quest WITHOUT doing any pvp. My experience so far is that the empire players are waiting outside our base AND the other taxi points to that area. I'm done with Ilum till my premade pvp groups start logging in tonight. Curious if it'll even help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) NO to instanced. Instanced is NOT open world PvP. They just need a bolster effect in place to fix the imbalance. Oh that really worked well in other games, cough Wintergrasp. Server I was on in that other game was 5:1, I was one the outnumbered side. Did not matter how much tenacity you had when the enemy out numbers you heavily. Alliance pretty much had 80 people camping the GY every game and got to point no one even went there. Alliance owned WG 24/7, 7 days a week except at 2 am in the morning after reset. Gee, its the same here. Tenacity/Bolster is lame anyways. All you have to do is stun em and blow em up. And btw, I went Imp yet I can sympathize with the under dog faction fully. Sides, this engine can't handle more than 40 ppl in one area anyways without rolling over and dieing. Having BW try to encourage people to play Ilum is laughable, really. Bad engine is really bad. Edited January 18, 2012 by fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunari Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Bad setpiece PvP in WoW (battlegrounds and arena) has made people forget how open world PvP works. And population imbalance is hardly Biowares fault. People choose a side they want to play. Nobody forces them to, and Bioware forcing people to choose a side they don't want to play would be a huge fail. (I play Republic, so no accusations are required)... ...Learn to perservere and overcome. If you simply play to the zerg, then you get zerged. If you play static set piece engagements, then numbers win. If you show some imagination, you can beat the zerg even when it outnumbers you significantly... Agreed, people need to adapt to the situation. the Ilum base doesn't help with two easy to camp exits for the Imps/Pubs to camp. There are two other speeder taxis in the zone. When out numbered you can't just rush into the enemy lines. Imbalance is an issue but Ilum isn't all BWs fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfonsoG Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Before i go datacron hunting. Here's a nice solution that will backfire on Bioware. Make a deal with the opposite side on general chat. To were each other take turns on killing each other and compplete the quest. see very simple solution and it will show how fail bioware did to this zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiffen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) This is exactly the reason. The Imperials outnumber the Republic significantly, but people would rather blame the designers because its the easy shot to take. It's the alliance vs the horde all over again.BW sets the rules BW made the game its all ther fault for this mess the copyed Wow how the **** did the not see this **** from comeing down go in to any wow Realm forum on any pvp server and typ in alliance and see what u get the only way the can now stop this is the punish THE SITH if the dont this game is going to go tatanic its to late to sweeten the rep side the have to go full stop on the reds Edited January 18, 2012 by Chiffen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhaim Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 ::.. :::: ::.. @ Bioware Having shiloads of devs from rvr mmos like daoc and warhammer on board and delivering the most idiotic patch concerning faction imbalances in this game. Srsly even sandlol was better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekey Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) To be honest. Warhammer T4 pvp was some of the most enjoyable PVP ive played. Massive, memorable battles are what Open world PVP is all about. But for it to bleed over correctly into TOR, there needs to be some Incentive to actually "win" the zone. Perhaps some kind of WZ/Merc comm's increase buff when in posession of Ilum? Could put the same lock timers into Ilum as with the zone locks in WH. This wouldnt help the imblance issues one single bit I know, but please try to understand that NOTHING with regards to Ilum will change the faction imblance. Edited January 18, 2012 by dekey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harabek Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9164/ilum1j.jpg http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5666/ilum2.jpg Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfonsoG Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9164/ilum1j.jpg http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5666/ilum2.jpg Nuff said. LMAO:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitdingo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Oh god... I didn't exactly have high hopes for the changes, but I'm sorry to say this has turned out even worse than I thought lol. No skill, no tactics, no challenge. He who has most players, wins. He who has most AEs and most players, epic-wins. He who has a cast time on his attacks, loses. This is Open World PvP...in all games. it is and has always been a zerg fest...whoever has the bigger numbers wins the vast majority of times. That is why i laugh when anyone talks about world pvp like it is the best thing ever....it is either a ganking lowbies or zerging...there is no skill. But, that is what people keep crying about. And now they have it and are still crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babyduck Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9164/ilum1j.jpg http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/5666/ilum2.jpg Nuff said. I play on Kaas City server and I can confirm thats the scene over here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryffin Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Population balance, whilst bad on some servers, needn't be such a hinderence to fun. The design of the zone is just as much to blame for this lack of fun on Ilum as population imbalance. You're being camped at your spawn point because the design of the zone does not prevent it from happening. The linear, almost Alteric Valley style of zone design does not allow you to traverse the terrain with any degree of freedom. You have Up or Down and that's all. This does not make it difficult to organise a camp at one of the many chokepoints. Combine this with imbalance and you have a real issue. As I say at the beginning. Imbalance isn't really that much of an issue. It's what Open PvP is and should be about; choosing your fights carefully or just outright getting stomped on by a superior group. The problem is zone design. It's difficult to outmaneouvre a camp and the zone itself lends heavily to zerg style combat in the event that populations are somewhat equal or when the underdogs have more organisation. This will not be fixed soon. Ilum has just too many design flaws to fix (it would essentially require significant replacement of walls and stuff). Hope that there will be a more open environment in the future with PvP (and I hope guild) functionality. If anything, turn Ilum into a warzone, allow 40 players per team and it could just well be a success. Open PvP wise, it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiffen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This is Open World PvP...in all games. it is and has always been a zerg fest...whoever has the bigger numbers wins the vast majority of times. That is why i laugh when anyone talks about world pvp like it is the best thing ever....it is either a ganking lowbies or zerging...there is no skill. But, that is what people keep crying about. And now they have it and are still crying. this is world pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitdingo Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Before i go datacron hunting. Here's a nice solution that will backfire on Bioware. Make a deal with the opposite side on general chat. To were each other take turns on killing each other and compplete the quest. see very simple solution and it will show how fail bioware did to this zone. Carebear 'pvpers' kill/objective trade. And yet, still blame Bioware for pvp fail? LOL. what are you all smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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