A Response to James Ohlen

[Rekooh]

"We're very happy in the review scores; we've been getting basically 90s and 80s - the lowest score we have is an 80, on average we have a 90. It's been coming in about where we expected," Ohlen said.

 

Ohlen can't even do MATHS. If you are basically getting 90's and 80's, how is the average a 90!?!?!?!?!?

[Zorvan]

"We're very happy in the review scores; we've been getting basically 90s and 80s - the lowest score we have is an 80, on average we have a 90. It's been coming in about where we expected," Ohlen said.

 

Ohlen can't even do MATHS. If you are basically getting 90's and 80's, how is the average a 90!?!?!?!?!?

 

I'm just waiting for Ohlen to declare the Earth is flat and Sol revolves around Earth so the aneurism his garbage created in my brain can finally pop.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Zorvan

[CharagonIGN]

Ohlen blames customers for their unreasonable expectations for TOR. He clearly does not understand how the business-to-consumer relationship works

 

That's not even what gets me. What I don't get is where these expectations were even coming from in the first place.

 

 

Ohlen is complaining about customers who were disappointed that this game wasn't some innovative new revolution in MMOs and that BioWare was just trying to mix WoW with KOTOR.

 

From my experience, nobody I've ever talked to expected anything from this game beyond "WoW + SWTOR."

 

The criticisms I'm seeing aren't that the game is too much like WoW. It's that it's too much like WoW circa 2005.

[Red_Cruiser]

WoW doesn't always choose to tell a story, but when it does, it's more interesting than SWTOR.

[Red_Cruiser]

I don't like WoW that much, but to me, if SWTOR was more like WoW, it would be an improvement, because SWTOR actually feels a lot like Warhammer Online and that game was a boring, dumb mess.

[Feelinestars]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-12-bioware-swtor-post-mortem-its-more-innovative-than-an-fps

 

This interview is kind of astounding in how much the game director doesn't seem to "get it".

 

 

Okay, first of all... I'm not looking at other genres. I'm not looking at Battlefield or Call of Duty or Gears of War. Why would you even go there? Furthermore, saying you're more innovative than "Call of Duty: 2011 Update" isn't exactly setting a high standard. I've made rice krispy treats more innovative than the Call of Duty franchise.

 

Secondly... innovation is great, but not when it comes at the expense of the basics.

 

Yes, you've done some spectacular things for making an engaging leveling experience that appeals to a wide range of playstyles all while telling a very cinematic story.

 

But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. Your animation/GCD priority is backwards. Your auction house is a mess. Finding a group hasn't been this difficult since 2007. And you can't even keep your camera from auto-moving to your back.

 

 

Which "years and years and years" are you talking about because you seem to have missed most of the lessons on UI design.

 

When do we get this? Or are we operating on different definitions of "classic"?

 

That IS what you did. I sure as heck have never played an MMO without a combat log.

 

 

 

 

I just don't understand it. The bulk of the negative feedback I've seen both here and IRL has been that the game isn't enough like WoW, not that it's not different enough.

 

If you want to be recognized for "raising the bar," I suggest you first meet it.

 

 

Such an awesome post with so much truth. This guy doesn't get it at all. Listen, here's the deal. BioWare knows the piece of crap they released. They had to expect this backlash. You're exactly right.. before raising the bar, try even REACHING the bar.. jeez, try even coming with 100 yards of "the bar." This developer is a clown and should be drummed out of the business as with the rest of the BioWare devs on this game. MMO and gaming aren't for you guys. Never try it again. Send this F2P and act like it never happened. Quickly.

[Nirosu]

The interview was terrible and he needs to be demoted, fired, or at least apologize for such a terrible interview.

The only innovative thing is the quest being fully VOed, I came into it knowing this and that's fine but that doesn't mean the UI should have been designed by an intern..

As well I'd love for them to just admit that 90% of their budget went to VO. The fact that they are just trying to deny the faults they have is what really bothers me. A game will never be perfect no matter what there will be a fault that needs to be fixed in the next patch or whatever. That's part of MMOs or even just games that apply patches or add anything.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Nirosu

[Renzetsu]

i think Mr Ohlen copped up enough criticism from this thread so i'll just move along without saying anything harsh.. but i sure as hell do want to

[Kubernetic]

But you don't have a combat log. You don't have a customizable UI. You don't have macros. You don't have add-on support. Your animation/GCD priority is backwards. Your auction house is a mess. Finding a group hasn't been this difficult since 2007. And you can't even keep your camera from auto-moving to your back.

 

1. Combat logs are coming, for your own stats.

 

2. Doesn't need a customizable UI. If you get one, you're lucky.

 

3. Doesn't need macros.

 

4. Doesn't need add-on support.

 

5. Global Cooldowns? Versus animation? Wha?

 

6. Auction house works just fine.

 

7. You must be trying to find groups wrong.

 

8. Who the hell cares? What are you filming movies?

 

When will these posts stop? Good god, the whining...

Edited January 18, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Ditched]

1. Combat logs are coming, for your own stats.

 

2. Doesn't need a customizable UI. If you get one, you're lucky.

 

3. Doesn't need macros.

 

4. Doesn't need add-on support.

 

5. No idea what the hell GCD is but I'm guessing it has to do with WOW somehow.

 

6. Auction house works just fine.

 

7. You must be trying to find groups wrong.

 

8. Who the hell cares? What are you filming movies?

 

When will these posts stop? Good god, the whining...

I believe thats global cooldown

[Quaade]

That's not even what gets me. What I don't get is where these expectations were even coming from in the first place.

 

 

Ohlen is complaining about customers who were disappointed that this game wasn't some innovative new revolution in MMOs and that BioWare was just trying to mix WoW with KOTOR.

 

From my experience, nobody I've ever talked to expected anything from this game beyond "WoW + SWTOR."

 

The criticisms I'm seeing aren't that the game is too much like WoW. It's that it's too much like WoW circa 2005.

 

The expectations are coming from their own weekly roundups. What they are presenting in those is nothing like what was presented in the game. Look them up on youtube.

[Kubernetic]

I believe thats global cooldown

 

Thanks much. I guess I could have gone to search but with the rest it was just why bother.

 

Do you have any idea what the heck this refers to? What the glitch where every once in a while you hit an ability and you get the cooldown but the ability didn't fire?

 

Good god I hope it's not that, lol.

[Sizzurps]

CharagonIGN,

 

Quit trying to make sense. Next, you'll tell me that SWTOR should have gone with a proven engine like Unreal 3 and not an untested clunky engine like Hero.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttx959sUORY

[Crohadan]

op:

 

on the premise of this game needing drastic improvement in all areas i agreew with you 100%. a lot of us dont want this to be wow 2.0 though. i understand that many do and thats fine. what i dont understand is why people on these forums try and push so ahrd for mods and add ons when things like damage meters, agro meters, ToT, and so on force devs to scale up battles because then people say they are too easy. before we start screaming for all the bells and whistles, lets make sure the ui works and is customizable. as a healer the only thing i really need right now is a way to adjust the size of debuff icons both for myself and for raid members. those darn things are so small its near impossible to see whos getting debuffed and who isnt.

[CharagonIGN]

1. Combat logs are coming, for your own stats.

 

2. Doesn't need a customizable UI. If you get one, you're lucky.

 

3. Doesn't need macros.

 

4. Doesn't need add-on support.

 

5. No idea what the hell GCD is but I'm guessing it has to do with WOW somehow.

 

6. Auction house works just fine.

 

7. You must be trying to find groups wrong.

 

8. Who the hell cares? What are you filming movies?

 

When will these posts stop? Good god, the whining...

 

1. That's an interesting assumption.

2. Yes. It does.

3. Yes. It does.

4. Yes. It REALLY does.

5. You've just invalidated everything you've said in the past and anything you'll say in the future.

6. But it doesn't work WELL.

7. Using /1 to find groups is SOOOO five years ago.

8. No, I'm trying to target something behind me while moving. You must not PvP... or PvE very well... and since you bring it up, it's probably a pain in the *** for anybody into machinima too.

[GalacticKegger]

1) Ability delay / Abilities not fireing off when pressed

2) PvP bugs on PvP servers

3) More rewarding endgame crafting

4) Flashpoint & Raid bugs

5) Overall PvP bugs

6) Customizable UI

7) Quest bugs

8) More customization of armor/weapon graphics in game

9) More Warzones

10t) Adding a "two target system"

10t) Lag & FPS

10t) More world PvP

 

Here's our forum community's poll returns to back it up - check the OP for all results:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=172162

Edited January 18, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Rekooh]

Thanks much. I guess I could have gone to search but with the rest it was just why bother.

 

Do you have any idea what the heck this refers to? What the glitch where every once in a while you hit an ability and you get the cooldown but the ability didn't fire?

 

Good god I hope it's not that, lol.

 

I believe he's actually referring to Ability Delay. There is a huge thread on it in the CSR forums.

 

EDIT: GalacticKegger posted the link to the thread above.

 

And while the OP does bring up some valid points, the way its delivered and underlying tone does not help his contentions at all.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Rekooh

[Katrar]

Innovation? Canned and highly repetitive VO responses are not any more innovative than cut-scene VO which has already existed for years.

 

TOR could have been innovative, they specifically chose to avoid that road. And they're paying for it.

 

Bioware has damaged their brand, plain and simple, and that's probably going to be this game's legacy (BW's "bridge too far").

[Bhigtimm]

Thanks much. I guess I could have gone to search but with the rest it was just why bother.

 

Do you have any idea what the heck this refers to? What the glitch where every once in a while you hit an ability and you get the cooldown but the ability didn't fire?

 

Good god I hope it's not that, lol.

 

No what he's saying is that animations should clip if the cast bar is done. Basically, if I my GCD is up and I push a button the new ability should occur, no matter what stage the animation is in. There's also a side issue of some instant cast stuff not going off until an animation completes which can make things like interrupting difficult. It seems to manifest most often when people are doing things like competitive pvp where timing down to the second matters. But it is noticeable in PvE as well.

 

That's the basic point about the animation/gcd priority, if I understand it correctly.

[Kubernetic]

I believe he's actually referring to Ability Delay. There is a huge thread on it in the CSR forums.

 

EDIT: GalacticKegger posted the link to the thread above.

 

And while the OP does bring up some valid points, the way its delivered and underlying tone does not help his contentions at all.

 

Well I'm no PvP maven, but am I incorrect in assuming that any ability delay (which has already been addressed by the game team as something they're looking at) affects all players in the PVP zone equally?

[Sizzurps]

I feel one of the major frustrations of the individuals on these boards is the lack of interaction / communication between devs and the community. When someone brings up a problem like FPS issues and the engine in general... instead of getting a wink or nod as to it being a "known issue" that's on the "to do" list... there's for all intents and purposes a "blackout."

[Bhigtimm]

Well I'm no PvP maven, but am I incorrect in assuming that any ability delay (which has already been addressed by the game team as something they're looking at) affects all players in the PVP zone equally?

 

It affects some classes more than other. Basically the more instant casts you have the more you will feel its effects. If most of your spells are channelled or have cast times longer than the GCD you won't feel it nearly as often.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Bhigtimm

[Maigrey]

That means WoW copy all its features from SWG then and COD and BF 3 is just a Doom clone ROFL.

 

When people know so little it makes me lol

 

what are you on crack, SWG and WoW are 2 of the most furthest apart MMOs going.

 

SWG was unbeleivably innovative, and was a brilliant design, if only they had the same budget as SWToR.

 

WoW was hardly innovative at all, and just sought to make the absolute best game possible with the best features and design possible.

 

WoW was a rousing success, SWG failed miserably due to SOE's contant blunders.

 

I know if they had more funding and more competent people, SWG could have been the giant that WoW is.

[Kubernetic]

1. That's an interesting assumption.

2. Yes. It does.

3. Yes. It does.

4. Yes. It REALLY does.

5. You've just invalidated everything you've said in the past and anything you'll say in the future.

6. But it doesn't work WELL.

7. Using /1 to find groups is SOOOO five years ago.

8. No, I'm trying to target something behind me while moving. You must not PvP... or PvE very well... and since you bring it up, it's probably a pain in the *** for anybody into machinima too.

 

1. It's not an assumption, there were posts about this earlier today in General Discussion.

2. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs.

3. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs.

4. Sorry, the game works fine without these. Wants don't equate to needs.

5. Too slow. Type faster. They've already addressed this and are looking into it.

6. It does everything I need it to do. Maybe you're using it wrong?

7. But it works, and people are grouping often. Argument fails.

8. Never tried to run away from one of my targets, sorry, but good luck with your strategery. And machinima producers can cope in other ways, for instance, with creativity and an imagination.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Kubernetic

[Zorvan]

what are you on crack, SWG and WoW are 2 of the most furthest apart MMOs going.

 

SWG was unbeleivably innovative, and was a brilliant design, if only they had the same budget as SWToR.

 

WoW was hardly innovative at all, and just sought to make the absolute best game possible with the best features and design possible.

 

WoW was a rousing success, SWG failed miserably due to SOE's contant blunders.

 

I know if they had more funding and more competent people, SWG could have been the giant that WoW is.

 

If EAware had more competent people and not blowhards like James Ohlen who bury their head in the sand while telling themselves "everythng is great", SWToR could have been the giant WoW is.