The reusable medpacks for Biochem are the most overpowered item ive seen in any MMO

[theothersteve]

If biochem had NO reusable medpacs, NO reusable stims, NO reusable adrenals, didn't craft implants at all, and only got a very small extra buff when on stims instead, equivalent to the difference between the current reusable stims and the other endgame stims... well, then it would mirror WoW.

 

And yet still it would be superior to Synthweaving and Armortech, and would be about on par with any other profession.

[khsolo]

The problem is that it is a Biochem only item which is forcing people to have to go Biochem. ALL reusable medpacks being Biochem only is the problem here.

 

Agree

 

People go biochem because that way they dont have to spend money getting any reusable medpacks or anything

 

After i hit lvl30/35 (cant remember) and made my first reusable i never ever spent money on medpacks and before i was spending 20k on every planet

 

Reusable medpacks should be usable by anyone not just biochemist, like implants imo

 

Cheers

[Darth_Philar]

Agree

 

People go biochem because that way they dont have to spend money getting any reusable medpacks or anything

 

After i hit lvl30/35 (cant remember) and made my first reusable i never ever spent money on medpacks and before i was spending 20k on every planet

 

Reusable medpacks should be usable by anyone not just biochemist, like implants imo

 

Cheers

 

Wow... that's a lot of credits for medpacks.

 

I am level 34 with my main (Sith Inq) and I have used a grand total of 2 medpacks (one on Korriban during the Blood Pool quest and the other one when I fought that Sith Lord on Nar Shadaa). I have never purchased one and usually wind up vendoring a ton of them once I outlevel them. If other classes are really having that hard a time surviving that they are willing to spend that kind of money per planet I think I may have to roll and alt and start selling medpacks!

[CapitaFK]

Wow... that's a lot of credits for medpacks.

 

I am level 34 with my main (Sith Inq) and I have used a grand total of 2 medpacks (one on Korriban during the Blood Pool quest and the other one when I fought that Sith Lord on Nar Shadaa). I have never purchased one and usually wind up vendoring a ton of them once I outlevel them. If other classes are really having that hard a time surviving that they are willing to spend that kind of money per planet I think I may have to roll and alt and start selling medpacks!

 

I use about 10-15 Medpacks per level on my Merc. I've been doing so since Lv20 (Lv37 now).

 

This is mainly because I tend to solo most Heroic 2's and some Heroic 4's. Luckily I'm Biochem and have level-appropriate ones always available to me.

[IMWylde]

This isn't about Biochem at all. Its about min-maxers running this game and about BioWare coddling them. "You cant raid unless you have this build this gear and this crew skill" bull-crap. The simplest solution? Let everyone craft what ever they want. Crafting does not effect the general economy because as has been mentioned there are better items dropping and available with commendations. There is no reason that each of your subjects (companions) could not be trained in a separate crafting skill. It adds a good time / money sink and renders irrelevant these kinds of issues.

[MazterL]

Funny, I saw people doing ALOT other stuff than simply Biochem, wich tells me that this whole notion of "forcing players to go Biochem" is wrong. If they were so OP as stated, then why aren't all players Biochems?

 

I see Cybertechs, Slicers, Artificer and whole bunch other. Biochem isn't dominant despite the reuseable, since there aren't a whole lot of cash to make on these Rakata Medpacs. Now they buff your max health? But why is that needed? Are you using teh medpacks when at 75% health? More like >50% health or even lower, wich renders teh 15% useless as a DPS class without any other ways to heal, won't even get close to that unless a healer is behind him and then why use the medpack?

 

Bring the HoT back on the Rakata and drop the 15% max health. They might have healed up to around 50% of a characters health, but 90 second cooldown doesn't save him anyway. Biochems need this if they are DPS class and if they have healing available to them, why bother with Biochem? The heals are better, Inquisitor/Consular healing is more OP than Rakata, if you ask me and I play scorcerer.

[PotatoPaper]

I have every advanced class, every crew skill, and have at least one level 50. Arrogance is assuming that a person is ignorant because they don't agree with you. Neither biochem nor slicing was broken and even if it was it is incredibly alarmist to cry about it in the first month. Leave it alone and I don't mean leave it alone post nerf.

 

Oh and let me repeat if your an expert on WoW and you think this game should do x because WoW does you know what you should be playing right?

Edited January 22, 2012 by PotatoPaper

[Warkyd]

Funny, I saw people doing ALOT other stuff than simply Biochem, wich tells me that this whole notion of "forcing players to go Biochem" is wrong. If they were so OP as stated, then why aren't all players Biochems? .

A free heal, an addition 136 of a characters main stat, 56 power, and 560 power/crit/surge is completely imlanced. In pvp this is a huge issue and hardcore guilds will undoubtedly require the bonus stats to grind thru new content.

 

Biochem needs changed or every other crafting profession needs changed to provide comparable bonuses.

[Jafnahar]

This isn't about Biochem at all. Its about min-maxers running this game and about BioWare coddling them. "You cant raid unless you have this build this gear and this crew skill" bull-crap. The simplest solution? Let everyone craft what ever they want. Crafting does not effect the general economy because as has been mentioned there are better items dropping and available with commendations. There is no reason that each of your subjects (companions) could not be trained in a separate crafting skill. It adds a good time / money sink and renders irrelevant these kinds of issues.

 

Actually, it is about Biochem.

 

Perhaps you aren't aware that MMO's are inherently competitive environments. Even if you do not play them that way, many do. I'd say that on some level, most do, even if it's only to say "I have more cosmetic pets than anyone I know." Competition drives the genre. It sounds like you are the one who wants to be coddled.

 

That said;

 

Thing is, for everyone who complains about people asking to nerf Biochem rather than bring the others up to the same level;

 

 

There is no way to bring the others up to the same level, unless you mimic the benefits exactly.

 

This is, of course, essentially what WoW chose to do. They had each crafting perk balanced to basically provide the same bonus, either as a flat rate or as proc-per-minute rate.

 

The nature of the problem here is just how large these bonuses are for Biochem. Restoring your health and increasing your effective pool of hitpoints over time is always going to be priority #1, in PvP, and to a greater or lesser degree depending on class, in PvE as well.

 

So, to bring the others in line, you couldn't give them just any benefit. As an example, giving Artifice an artifice-only Hilt mod that adds +50 Force Power over the best available to anyone else would still be far less appealing to most players than the biochem medpacs. Why? Because to everyone in PvP, and many in PvE, longevity is king. (Necessary note to avoid straw man arguments: No math or theorycrafting has gone into this example. It's pulled from the top of my head as a broad generalization.) A large, instant, on-demand self heal is pretty much the holy grail of every PvPer, short of an "I win" button.

 

 

Sometimes, nerfs are necessary, because the only way to balance otherwise would be to implement a pile of redundant skills or items, essentially accomplishing the same thing as simply nerfing the original, at the cost of adding much more bloat to the system.

[Almar]

What genious thought it would be a good idea to put something this blatantly OP into the game?

 

Then on top of it its only usable by the profession which makes them which is causing Biochem to be a requirement for raiding. I dont think I have ever played a game where a tradeskill was commonly required to raid before until now.

 

Mark my words. By the end of February once the general public knows about how OP Biochem is well over 50% of the playerbase WILL be Biochem.

 

SWTOR is becoming a dumpster fire fast and the Devs need to bring out some extinguishers and put out these problems before its too late.

 

You must not have played many mmos to think it's that bad.

[Divona]

As an example, giving Artifice an artifice-only Hilt mod that adds +50 Force Power over the best available to anyone else would still be far less appealing to most players than the biochem medpacs.

 

Great idea and i like it. If there would be many powerful modifiactions that are only available for that crew skill i would consider picking that crew skill over biochem.

Or lightsaber crystal that has 2 stats and needs to be artifice to use. There are many options its jsut BW didnt give non biochem crew skills much beneficts.

[GengisKahn]

Biochem is not the problem here.

 

The problem is the other crafting skills not being good enough.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Are you players THAT bad? Blowing medpacs every time it is up in PvP? 20k in packs every planet? Good god, I find more packs on the ground than I use. I wind up outleveling them and mailing them to alts!

[Ravenelle]

Great idea and i like it. If there would be many powerful modifiactions that are only available for that crew skill i would consider picking that crew skill over biochem.

Or lightsaber crystal that has 2 stats and needs to be artifice to use. There are many options its jsut BW didnt give non biochem crew skills much beneficts.

 

Artifice already gets bop relics that can be crit crafted. You wear 2 of them, that's 2 augment slots with 28 each of whatever stat you wanted which is over 50 pts. of benefit. The item that is the profession perc of artifice is relics, not hilts. BTW artifice can also crit craft those moddable weapons apparently to add another 28 pts. of pure stats according the reverse engineering guide above.

 

Synthweaving and Armormech can do the same on a belt and bracers. That's 28 x 2 for each of those.

 

Why after 1 month of the game being out and constant forum posts to the contrary do people still not understand the percs and benefits of the various crew skills.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Ravenelle

[Moncrieff]

Are you players THAT bad? Blowing medpacs every time it is up in PvP? 20k in packs every planet? Good god, I find more packs on the ground than I use. I wind up outleveling them and mailing them to alts!

 

Well done... You probably don't use any cool downs either.

[Divona]

Artifice already gets bop relics that can be crit crafted. You wear 2 of them, that's 2 augment slots with 28 each of whatever stat you wanted which is over 50 pts. of benefit.

 

Hmm, first you need alot BoA crafting mats (never won any rolls for that) then you HOPE for crit to have extra augment slot....

 

The item that is the profession perc of artifice is relics, not hilts.

 

PvP relics are easy to get and have very close bonus with crafting. But again need to hope for a crit or its a meh....

 

BTW artifice can also crit craft those moddable weapons apparently to add another 28 pts. of pure stats according the reverse engineering guide above.

 

Again you plan to craft weapon using BoA crafting mats and then hoping crit agaib and you even say RE that dear god.....

 

Why after 1 month of the game being out and constant forum posts to the contrary do people still not understand the percs and benefits of the various crew skills.

 

 

Look over the problems i pointed out and good luck getting crits or wasting BoA mats.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Divona

[AnubisXy]

Bioware just needs to radically reduce the price of white vendor med kits and stim packs. If people could just buy 99 of them for a reasonable price, then the Biochem perk would be for their resuable kit to have a somewhat better heal or slightly more stats.

 

As is, the purchasable med-kits/stims are just too expensive, so a resuable one becomes much, much more attractive.

Edited January 23, 2012 by AnubisXy

[Gruntcruncher]

Hmm, first you need alot BoA crafting mats (never won any rolls for that) then you HOPE for crit to have extra augment slot....

 

 

 

PvP relics are easy to get and have very close bonus with crafting. But again need to hope for a crit or its a meh....

 

 

 

Again you plan to craft weapon using BoA crafting mats and then hoping crit agaib and you even say RE that dear god.....

 

 

 

 

Look over the problems i pointed out and good luck getting crits or wasting BoA mats.

 

So, what is your problem? Aww, it takes a bit of effort? Guess what, you also have to roll for the hm drop material, in order to craft your Bio gear.

 

As for the pvp relics, dont make me laugh, being able to drop +28 of your main stat into each of the artifice ones (you can have 2) is a big deal.

 

Anyone and everyone can BUY healpacks that are better than the rekata ones, anyone and everyone can BUY the stim packs that are near as good as the rekata ones. So what your moaning about is Bio's can save a bit of cash while gimping their available heals?

 

The slightly good news for other crafts is that thier best stuff is only BoP restricted, there is no craft level restriction on use on them. If you bother with the effort, craft your crit relics etc and then think, hmm, I fancy some of the Bio goodies now. Your ok to do so, and take your augmented BoP relics etc with you, for no penalty. But if your Bio, you cannot have the other crafts good stuff unless your prepared to lose your Bio perks. As its alleged Op stuff is all "400 bio to use".

 

Btw I have 400 artifice. Once I twigged to the drawback of bio gear being 400 to use, I decided to keep arti till I have crafted the relics, then i am going synth, and the other crafts after that to get all the boP crafted gear with aug slots. Then I will take Bio, last. Those who have Bio and decide to min/max the same way will have to relearn bio again in order to get their perks back.

 

Expensive, maybe, time consuming, defo, but atm it seems I have plenty of time on my hands after completing the dailies grind and waiting for guild runs.

[rzrknight]

The "nerf" you guys at Bioware are implementing fixes NOTHING but you cant seem to understand this. In fact you guys have made the problem even worse with your so called "fix".

 

The problem is that it is a Biochem only item which is forcing people to have to go Biochem. ALL reusable medpacks being Biochem only is the problem here.

 

You guys are destroying your own game and you are completely oblivious to it. Unreal.

 

Really , they take away the reusable stims and who will actually take bio?

Cause without that at least to me is a pretty much useless thing , unless they add a 1 time use that is MUCH more powerful.

[Calithlin]

 

Synthweaving and Armormech can do the same on a belt and bracers. That's 28 x 2 for each of those.

 

Why after 1 month of the game being out and constant forum posts to the contrary do people still not understand the percs and benefits of the various crew skills.

 

Um, guy, what you dont get is that (at least for synthweaving) there's no POINT in those augment slots when the very easy to get PVP and raid gear, by default, has SO much more stats by default than the mastercraft armor etc.

 

Even if I crit on all of the slots for mastercraft helm, shirt, pants, gloves, boots, belt, and bracers, the PVP/Illum gear is still better anyway, so there's no point.

[ArmoredJuneBug]

The purpose of tradeskills is SUPPOSED to be to create items to SELL to other people to earn money.

No.

 

The purpose of tradeskills is to have another time and credit sink for the general player population, keeping them playing for longer.

 

The way to do that is offering incentives for leveling a crafting skill to max level. Currently there's little to no reason to go with anything but Biochem. That's the issue, not Biochem being too strong in its own right.

 

And this from someone with 5 characters and none of them Biochem.

[IcyFisty]

That still only leaves Bio and Cy as the best endgame crafting skills because gear from the first HM/ops/raid/PvP vendor/whatever will outdo any slot any crafting skill makes.

 

This...

 

This this this this this. As epic mods cannot be crafted in any way shape or form artifice becomes totally useless the moment you hit 50. I'm only keeping it because having a 400 artifice character is nice when you're leveling up another lightsaber user (the other character is leveling up an actually useful crew skill). I can no longer craft anything powerful enough to match what I will be getting in raids. This sucks because I have loved crafting my own hilts and enhancements. It has helped me to easily deicde the layout I want for my attributes without having to worry about getting commendations and buying stuff from vendors or relying on quest drops.

 

This is one of my biggest problems with the game and with the crafting system in general. There are alot of other things that need to be fixed and decided upon before this gets fixed I think and I'm willing to wait patiently, but there needs to be a way to make the crafting skills competitive with raids. I don't doubt that such a craftable mod will be outrageously expensive to build, but nonetheless it should be an option.

[iain_b]

Any guild that is requiring their members to go Biochem for raiding, when the players can just as easily buy the same quality medpacs, needs to pull their heads out of their butts.

 

If these guilds were really interested in fostering a healthy community within their guild they would have a small handful of players with Biochem who can just craft the 1-use medpacs for their guildmates (with the mats being farmed or bought off the GTN with guild funds) instead of forcing specific crafting skills on their players with the illusion of being leet.

Edited January 23, 2012 by iain_b

[PlagaNerezza]

Any guild that is requiring their members to go Biochem for raiding, when the players can just as easily buy the same quality medpacs, needs to pull their heads out of their butts.

 

If these guilds were really interested in fostering a healthy community within their guild they would have a small handful of players with Biochem who can just craft the 1-use medpacs for their guildmates (with the mats being farmed or bought off the GTN with guild funds) instead of forcing specific crafting skills on their players with the illusion of being leet.

 

I don't mind requiring it. Leveling a crafter is a joke in this game. At 50 if someone wants to re-roll say cybertech it doesn't take long. Right now at 50 it makes no sense not to have it. I am leveling cybertech/artifact to get those gap stats filled until i get my appropriate pvp armor.

 

Than will powerlevel biochem. For high-end HM raids I understand why guilds would not want to have to craft 100's of stims for guildies every night. Alright my alts are crafting and filling my inventory..

[Blackardin]

You just made a really good argument that the game is designed to support a vibrant economy but the players aren't ready to participate in it fully yet.

 

There is clearly demand. As you say, demand for thousands to tens of thousands of medpacks per server. Yet there's no supply.

 

Not sure how you arrived at that.

 

Supply and demand do not an economy make, not if raw materials cost make production cost prohibitive....which is what the poster was demonstrating. There is a demand for bread in the world, but not if it cost $200 per loaf.