Casual = Happy and Re-Subscribing; Hardcore = Rage Quit

[Loppsided]

I dislike PvP, and I'm thankful I can completely ignore it. I'm playing this game for the story, and to get some co-op play time in with a old friend. Playing Kotor 3 co-op was all I was hoping to get from the experience. We've been playing about 20 hrs a week since launch. We're obviously re-subbing and have no plans of leaving anytime soon.

 

Do I think the game is perfect? Nope. The combat is pretty repetitive, though there's constantly some little new think that comes along to make it different enough to be tolerable. And hell, it's no more repetitive then the combat in Borderlands, or in Titan Quest, or any of the other co-op games I've played. It's fun enough.

 

As for the "hard-core", I'm not even sure what that means. I guess it's someone without a job or responsibilities who leveled to 50 in a week or less, disregarding the story, and who sees levels 1-49 as an obstacle to overcome as quickly as possible?

 

I guess if I was Bioware I'd be more interested in holding the interest of people like me than people who disregard 80% of a game's content and then demand more. I'd cut loose the people who are impossible to please, and foster a relationship with the more casual player. There's far more of my type than "hard-core", anyway.

[Makade]

But yet you assume MMO vets and hardcore players don't like the game. So you can assume but not others is that the rule?

 

I'm making observations based on my assessment of forum posts. Just so you know, if someone describes their MMO history and then goes on to give their opinion about the game, how is it that I've assumed anything about them? They've put it out there for all to see and I've taken note of it (ie, observations). There is nothing wrong with that. I might be wrong or you might disagree, but I haven't deliberately made things up to push an agenda. Making assumptions about an individual player when you know nothing about them is an entirely different situation.

[Dechomai]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to dump people into those categories, but there does seem to be a noticeable trend among supposed long-time MMOers as being the most vocal of those who dislike certain features of the game.

 

 

This. But I am enjoying the game tremendously. I think another thing too is that some people expected perfection right out of the gate. Me? I knew that bugs and glitches would probably be there and will just have to be worked out over time (I've seen too many government software program releases...the bugs come with the territory). Meanwhile though, I'm enjoying the ride. IMHO, if Bioware plays its cards right, this game will really soar.

[Darthmugin]

Wait I'm confused. So playing WoW makes you an mmo vet? Really?

 

I thought MMO vets raided when raid bosses took more than 10 minutes at a time to down? What about the MMOs before WoW? What about all the other ones after WoW?

 

The world doesn't revolve around WoW... for the most part. There are alot of inovative things they did but it started elsewhere and will end elsewhere.

[Makade]

You may not have meant it, or maybe you did and are not admitting it, or cannot see it, but you asked your question in a pseudo condescending manner.

 

You cannot be surprised if people take some offense. It was almost insinuating that if you like this game, you are a gushing newbie, but if you don't like the game it is because you are an experienced and knowledgeable gamer.

 

That wasn't my intent. In my attempt to make the title as concise as possible, I can see how it might have come off in the way you described.

[Derfmiolleh]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I think the kids are "dissatisfied" and instead of just leaving they feel the need to come to our forums and throw temper tantrums. This usually prompts me to "gush" about how much I enjoy the game.

[Putok]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I fall much more on the "hardcore" side of the coin in general, but I'm playing this game in a more casual way.

 

At the moment, I'm hopping onto WoW 3 days a week for 2-3 hours to do a little raiding, and then just messing around in this game for fun. I'm not at all focused on hitting the level cap or anything like that. I've been messing around a lot with crafting, alts, etc. I'm fairly happy despite the bugs, and will be re-subbing.

 

HOWEVER, if I was more competitive in this game, I think the ability delay and associated bugs would drive me out. As it is, playing my Juggernaut alt can get VERY frustrating at times. Much worse than my assassin, sniper, or sorc.

[TonyACT]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I'm casual and will be here for a few months, no longer. I stayed with EQ for 4 years because I could siphon off a % of my xp to Alternate Advancement so delay reaching end game (I have yet to find an end game in any game which I enjoy). I also liked the in-game card game there.

 

I am levelling a bit too quickly here so see myself hitting 50 in a couple of weeks. I will then level an alt on the other side for 5-6 weeks. Then spend a few weeks playing my two alts and trying what end game there is.

 

So - and remember I am a casual - about 3-4 months and I will be off unless something amazing comes along in the meantime.

[Shivetya]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

Simple, the game is not up to the standards of games played by hard core players. They have certain expectations of the UI, the class abilities, the balance between the classes, and the like. The casuals apparently don't understand this because they don't could never compete at a level that is matters or complete the content that requires that level of skill.

 

Frankly this game would be toast if not for the fact it is Star Wars. Before you little fanbois pout I have seen similar from fanbois of this game talking about that other SW MMO. Face it, this game was created in a vacumn. The developers obviously are amateurs when it comes to MMOs. They classes were obviously designed for a single player game, there is no balance between them, they don't even get companions at a similar rate. This game has a worse UI than some shareware games have.

 

It has two saving graces, first it was Star Wars and second the voice acting. If not for those I would not even give it a second glance. Its an abysmal attempt at a game that only keeps people in because the IP is far better than anything BIOWARE could mess up. Sony proved that as well.

[Geglad]

Basically this, even at WoW's most "hardcore" in terms of raiding it doesn't hold a candle to what EQ had in it.

 

 

This seems about right...I think. I am not very bright, I agree, but from what little I know about these games, seems like EQ was a little bit rougher. I dunno.

 

I played a Bard in Pull-Group in a "hard-core" raiding guild, with 72 heads looking for loot, screaming about delay times on pulls, wipes, schedules, RL, etc...from Naggy through Late PoP in EQ. Also spent a time as a Feral in WoW raiding from Naxx/AQ through LK and even the "here is your loot, you were nice enough to pay this month" Cata and Failwing. There is nothing in common with the either the size or complexity of the raid organization in games like EQ with similar more casual styles as evident in WoW and their ilk. But this is my definition of "hardcore", which some may, or may not, share.

 

I do not think this is bad thing at all. It is only reasonable that a comapny would go where the money leads them. If they didnt, I would be onboard for railing against them, especially if they pleaded for understanding - or a bailout, but thats another topic.

 

What I do think is entertaining, however, is the idea that WoW, in particular, was ever "hardcore" by my ealier definition, unless it is the amount of time spent playing that defines players as hardcore or not. Then, perhaps, there are many hardcore players. Perhaps. Again, its a different definition.

 

 

Just seems sorta strange thats all - people get all weirded out and stuff. I mean, if the game is cool then like you play right? If it doesnt seem like its cool, then you wouldnt play right? 'Sides, I really dont get all the hardcore, softcore stuff. Seems confusing when you are dumb like me and dont know what the word means.

 

We are talking adult entertainment stuff?

 

*giggles*

 

 

 

-Lad

[TheHeadCapper]

Simple, the game is not up to the standards of games played by hard core players. They have certain expectations of the UI, the class abilities, the balance between the classes, and the like. The casuals apparently don't understand this because they don't could never compete at a level that is matters or complete the content that requires that level of skill.

.

 

Nah real hardcore players don't need the game to be played for them. Don't mix up WoW raiders with hardcore players, different thing. Skill isn't looking at a threat meter, skill is understanding your threat level without having to read it on a meter.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[Ramayana]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

I'm a casual player. Though I did play certain MMOs quite a bit prior to jumping into this one. I hate to be Switzerland, but both sides make valid points. There certainly are good elements to the game that give it some longevity, however, there are also some very annoying points that have been highlighted to death by some posters thus far.

 

I support the good elements of this game, though acknowledge there is quite a laundry list of things that need to be remidied, removed, added, balanced, sauteed, par-boiled etc.

 

The thing that tick me off for the most part is not the actual game itself, it's the cynical business decisions made by EA who seemed to have turned this game into a day at work rather than a form of entertainment.

 

On the game side of things, I hope they start implementing whatever designs they have, because it's already beginning to run out of steam.

[Jedipwnsauce]

im a hardcore player ( 9+ hours per day) and also a star wars fan.. my love for star wars prevents me from slandering this game or quitting it. despite the many issues. it also forces me to defend this game to the end. this is STAR WARS : the old republic. not The OLD REPUBLIC: a Star wars tale.

[LeSamourai]

I agree OP. I think the people who were expecting HARDCORE endgame raiding or expecting AWESOMESAUCE PvP are the ones who are MOST disappointed. I think the more casual crowd (those that might do an FP here and there, or only occasionally raid) are not worried about the game at all.

 

I'm in the middle of the two, and I'll be taking a month or so break to see how things go. If I like what I'm seeing, I'll buy some timecards and play for a couple months. If not, well, I won't be posting here

[GongStar]

You are wrong about the casual/hardcore thing...

[Aloro]

All generalizations are false

 

That's some delicious irony right there.

 

***

 

OP: You're pushing an agenda, whether you intend to or not. As other have noted, you drew a line between "MMO vets" who you argue are unhappy with the game, and "casual players" who you argue are having fun. The clear implication is that, the more experienced you are, the less likely you are to enjoy this game, which is to say the game is "really" not very good but inexperienced and unskilled players might not realize this Truth. That's a fairly simple passive-aggressive way of attacking anyone who enjoys the game.

 

Whether you meant to do this or not isn't really the point; this is what you did. And so, yes, a lot of people are going to mention that you're drawing a false dichotomy and showing a clear opinion while trying to appear neutral. That doesn't demonstrate integrity, which in turn will cause some posters to be biased against you. It'd be better if you were just above-board with your opinions; that's a better basis for a discussion.

 

Incidentally, I'm an MMO vet (13 years, 25+ MMOs played and beta tested), fairly hardcore, and loving this game. Your population divisions don't work for me, and your conclusions seem invalid to me. Those are simply my opinions though and no better or worse than your own.

[zwildstar]

• Linear Missions - Check
  
• Cookie Cutter Classes - Check
  
• Everyone dressed the same - Check
  
• Balancing Issues - Check
  
• Space Combat on Rails - Check
  
• INSANE Training Costs - Check
  
• Did I mention Linear Missions? - Check
  
• Useless Crafting Skills - Check
  
• Can Level to Max in under 2 weeks - Check
  
• Massive time sinks walking through empty spaceports - Check
  

I am not sure why anyone is going to re-sub to tell you the truth.

 

• Star Wars Universe?
  
• Can level to max in 2 weeks?
  
• Can have pseudo-sex?
  

/shrugs

 

I will most likely give BW another month's worth, but why I can't figure out.

[Spymaster]

Have you noticed this trend on the forums lately? Casual players gush about how much they are enjoying the game whereas MMO veterans and hardcore players seem to be extremely dissatisfied. What are your thoughts? If you accept this premise, why do you think this might be the case? Is it possible Bioware is aware of this and are fine with it (ie, it was a financial decision)?

 

Happens in every MMO, yet the Devs still cater to these guys even though they won't ever be satisfied. Strange way to do business in my opinion.

 

They should take the people who are happy with the story based game, and cater to them, let the hardcores blow through the content in a few months and leave, they're going to do it anyway.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Spymaster

[Isgarot]

Try another class. I find the combat fine. I do wonder if it's a class or system them. I honestly think the combat is fluid, at least for my Shadow and Gunslinger.

 

lol really fine XD

[TheHeadCapper]

That's some delicious irony right there.

 

***

.

 

The statement is all generalizations are false including this one and it should make you think or of least the person i was quoting.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TheHeadCapper

[TonyACT]

• Linear Missions - Check
  
• Cookie Cutter Classes - Check
  
• Everyone dressed the same - Check
  
• Balancing Issues - Check
  
• Space Combat on Rails - Check
  
• INSANE Training Costs - Check
  
• Did I mention Linear Missions? - Check
  
• Useless Crafting Skills - Check
  
• Can Level to Max in under 2 weeks - Check
  
• Massive time sinks walking through empty spaceports - Check
  

I am not sure why anyone is going to re-sub to tell you the truth.

 

• Star Wars Universe?
  
• Can level to max in 2 weeks?
  
• Can have pseudo-sex?
  

/shrugs

 

I will most likely give BW another month's worth, but why I can't figure out.

 

I am giving it one more month as I will take 1 month to level to max, then one more month to level one alt to max on the other side to see their planets / story.

[Nymaeria]

. . . Me? I knew that bugs and glitches would probably be there and will just have to be worked out over time. . .

 

 

Yeah, a few bugs and glitches would be fine. Unfortunately, SWTOR doesn't have a few, it has TONS. From simple graphical errors (eyes clipping through cheeks, capes and lekku clipping through bodies and vibrating, objects in cut-scenes appearing as a black, empty space, jedi/sith holding their sabers by the light, etc.) to minor annoyances (gathering nodes that STILL aren't gather-able, camera zooming in every time you're in an enclosed environment, companions re-activating abilities you've turned off, quests you inexplicably can't abandon, etc) to major problems (people that don't show up in Operation Frames, frames displaying incorrect information, story and companion quests that can't be turned in, etc.) to game-breakers (bosses with loot chests not awarding loot if there's a wipe, Operations, the mysterious and hotly debated ability lag, Ilum, etc.). There are also 2 other big red flags: getting a hold of a real, human CSR is darn near impossible and all the seemingly minor bugs that have existed since Beta.

 

I participated in the launch of the last 'big' MMO - Rift - and have expectations of how an MMO should be released in this decade. Rift was created by a new, no-name company with a MUCH smaller team and budget yet their game was far more polished. It had all the creature comforts I've come to expect (eg. combat log, 'triple spec', customizable UI, a world that promoted exploration, crafting that mattered, and much more). Yes, it had bugs and glitches but the team was communicative and quick with their fixes. Wish SWTOR had such devoted devs.

 

Generally, I would put myself in the 'hard-core' category (having been in top world raiding guilds in other MMOs with serious time /played) but I'm playing this game fairly casually (took me a week or 2 to hit 50). How ever you want to categorize me, I'm disappointed in this game. The only reason I might sub another month is my significant other is still enjoying rolling alts (no clue how, but who am I to diss someone's play-style) and I like to be helpful.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Nymaeria

[Tehroth]

You actually don't speak for me so don't pretend you do. You speak for yourself and you alone, no use trying to pretend otherwise.

 

He means to say the Carebear/WoW model loving people who think they are hardcore because they do a raid for 4 hours killing an npc. Now a hardcore game is Darkfall online, Eve, mortal online, not these themepark games where if you die you have no set backs.

 

WoW players tried to steal the meaning of hardcore because they thought they were cool devoting 8 hours a day shooting the ****. EQ was a hardcore themepark..not this game or any wow clone.

 

/elistism

 

Bottom line: if you hate this game so much that you feel compelled to come onto these message boards for no reason other than to talk crap about it, odds are that there are problems in your life that a video game can't fix

 

Because the people who aren't new to Mmorpgs are tired of getting shafted. We are tired of the same old game in a different format.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Tehroth

[Kirkkh]

Bioware doesn't seemed concerned for your average mmo playerbase.

 

This is like the wii of mmo's.

 

http://www.videogamer.com/pc/star_wars_the_old_republic/news/star_wars_old_republic_plans_to_cater_to_casual_fans.html

[Krijgsheer]

I've played WoW for six years. I've seen the game fall, I've seen the community fall to bad habits. However I always enjoyed the game, cause I don't take everything so damn serious. I don't care if some newb causes a wipe, just give him some hints (on a kind way) and try again.

 

Same for SWToR, just sit back, relax, have some fun. Don't mind all the mistakes made by Bioware, EA or other players for that matter.

 

When you stop raging and start taking a deep breath and just continue, you'll have a lot more fun and you are more likely to resub.