BegaTasty Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lol skill based? If there isn't pvp gear, then who ever had the best pve gear would have the advantage. You do know that before wow, gear was just "gear".. Crafters made the most stuff, an random loot items dropped from mobs/dungeons etc etc etc.... Pvp should never be exactly equal. gear is not the central point around pvp. It never was, only wow did that an it ruined world pvp for ever. Because now young lads like yourself see it as necessary. Having an advantage is what pvp is about, you need to learn how to counter classes. Trouble with tor is there's only 4 classes, an no diversity. you ever have pvp farmed gear, or your screwed.... That really isn't pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This doesn't work because different builds use different stats. Removing the ability for players to customize their stats is pretty bad. you could always have the base gear then have augments that help with your speciality, for example an augment that adds to your crit, alacrity etc this allows for diversity, but still not the huge diversity that is apperant now... dunno, I just know as of right now, the gear gap is huge. and with the way it is now, more people that are just starting pvp are getting fed up and leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) If you sucked at the game and didn't have the patience to practice, wouldn't you leave to something better if you didn't have that carrot on a stick? 87% of all WoW players that cleared the final dungeon of Cataclysm did it through raid finder. Because they didn't want to go through the standard path of progression and organization. That's a LOT of casuals. Edited January 17, 2012 by Knifewrench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Half the reason Daoc RVR was an still is classed as the best pvp game made in MO's is because it was never again gear. You earned abilities in points you earned in RVR. Gear meant very little.It's sad how far MMO's have fallen that they have forgotten how to create real pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not sure if I'm understanding the question correctly, but if you're suggesting that PvP should have no gear rewards, that can't happen. Inevitably, the players who just want to PvP the majority of the time will end up getting steamrolled when the PvE players with their superior raid gear decide to waltz into the warzones/open areas. This will cause PvP players to scream bloody murder, and for good reason. There needs to be gear for PvP heavy players. No one wants to get destroyed by someone who never PvP's simply because their stats are so much better. He's saying that gear regardless of the source should have little effect on the power of your abilities in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If you sucked at the game and didn't have the patience to practice, wouldn't you leave to something better if you didn't have that carrot on a stick? BUT at the same time, if you sucked and you knew it was because of you, not your gear, wouldn't that help you to improve? right now, you can improve all day long but if you no have the gear, say goodbye to that improvement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lol skill based? If there isn't pvp gear, then who ever had the best pve gear would have the advantage. In guild wars you were given a set of gear at character creation that could only be used in PvP, but was the equal of the best PvE gear. Therefore no gear grind and skill based pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 also, with guildwars, the gear was base, then you added augments to it to support your build, thats what should be done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sadly, instead of making a fun and/or meaningful PvP system to keep people playing, they opt for a gear treadmill just like everyone else This.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I like how people always claim that a SWTOR (a game dependent upon subscriptions) should use the same gearing system GW (a game not dependent upon subscriptions) used. /lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I like how people always claim that a SWTOR (a game dependent upon subscriptions) should use the same gearing system GW (a game not dependent upon subscriptions) used. /lol prolly cause GW did it right. /lol right back at ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Agree completely. It is completely beyond me why companies that make MMOs don't take a look at FPS games, like Call of Duty. In their mind numbing simplicity, the gear curve is next to non existent, so everyone is rushed to the point of equality - where skill is now the front runner in game play. And look - those games don't get old to ANYONE - people will play them for ever. Then again, I think I'll just keep this idea to myself and make my MMO like this and people will like it better than the XP/gear/rep treadmills that are MMOs today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because this is a MMO RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The problem with PVP in the latest batch of games WOW/Rift/SWTOR comes down to more than just PVP gear. The whole PVP system was not given any real thought and a byproduct of that lack of thought is the PVP stat. Its the same way they build their PVE content give someone a carrot to chase and you can keep them chasing it for years. Look how long WOW has been going. MMOs now boil down to nothing more than a game of barbies dressup. You spend rediculous amounts of time grinding for gear only to have that gear become outdated a few months later so you can repeat the process all over again. The problem I have with this is that all the games that try to innovate are dramatically underfunded and usually from indie companies lacking the staff or experienced personnel to see their innovative ideas come to light. Meanwhile 800 pound gorilla developers keep churning out the same turds putting sprinkles on it and calling it something new. SWTOR during its development said that they had some of the best PVP developers in the industry working for them. If this is the case then shame on them for thinking what is currently in the game is innovative and different. The reality is they don't even have to invent much if they wanted to have meaningful PVP just pull elements from games that have done PVP well. WOW is not the first game to have PVP nor is it the best. Pull some ideas from something else besides WOW damn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not a game designer, but I'm told the vast majority of people who play MMOs like gear grinds (whether they admit it or not), and if they didn't have one for PvP, the vast majority of players would get bored and quit pretty quickly. Personally though, I would play without any reward system because I enjoy the actual gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm still waiting for someone to explain away gear upgrades in Call of Duty and Modern Warfare. Here is your answer: In FPS, getting gear upgrades does not simply boost the damage of the weapon you are using -- it changes the way you play the game. Gear upgrades in SWTOR just make you have more health, more damage, more healing, etc. Imagine playing BF3 or COD where the gun you unlocked next increased your HP by 100 and the damage went up 25 HP per hit. Instead, the gun you unlock might have a faster rate of fire, but be more accurate and do less damage per hit. Or your upgrade might allow you to take out tanks instead of airplanes/helicopters. Or that new weapon is more accurate and has more damage, but has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip. The above are ways "gear progression" works in FPS that are competitive. The fact that gear is a vessel of statistical inflation in SWTOR means it will never be a viable way of creating a "character progression" for PvP. BioWare should have learned from FPS, like they learned from RPGs, and made a system where your character advances by unlocking things that change the way you play in PvP, such as a perk system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalashasa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Here is your answer: In FPS, getting gear upgrades does not simply boost the damage of the weapon you are using -- it changes the way you play the game. Gear upgrades in SWTOR just make you have more health, more damage, more healing, etc. Imagine playing BF3 or COD where the gun you unlocked next increased your HP by 100 and the damage went up 25 HP per hit. Instead, the gun you unlock might have a faster rate of fire, but be more accurate and do less damage per hit. Or your upgrade might allow you to take out tanks instead of airplanes/helicopters. Or that new weapon is more accurate and has more damage, but has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip. The above are ways "gear progression" works in FPS that are competitive. The fact that gear is a vessel of statistical inflation in SWTOR means it will never be a viable way of creating a "character progression" for PvP. BioWare should have learned from FPS, like they learned from RPGs, and made a system where your character advances by unlocking things that change the way you play in PvP, such as a perk system. what your saying doesnt make any sense what so ever. Why do you think skills unlock per level. In fps they do have unlocks that just unlock hp or damage increase. What Bioware needs to do is balance the game and get rid of the RNG stuff. RNG has no place in PVP. Any game that wants to place itself as a true pvp game leaves as much as possible to player skill. thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmiekros Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Guild Wars did it best when it comes to PvP.... You shouldnt have to grind out for months to get the best gear. PvP should be Skill vs Skill not Skill vs gear and Gear winning. Those that argue otherwise need the gear to compensate for there lack of skill /end thread ^^^ This a thousand times. PvP in swtor is clearly an after thought as the game was not built with PvP in mind from the ground up. Serious PvP will move to Guild Wars 2 when it's out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReafer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Discuss.... Because it will FORCE people to do PvE to have a chance in PvP and they don't want to force people into things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Guild Wars did it best when it comes to PvP.... You shouldnt have to grind out for months to get the best gear. PvP should be Skill vs Skill not Skill vs gear and Gear winning. Those that argue otherwise need the gear to compensate for there lack of skill /end thread ....Did you even play Guild Wars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This. It's been stated before but PvP needs gear to match the PvE gear other wise the PvE'ers would own PvP. You can't have the PvP gear be as good as the PvE gear because then the PvPers could roll over the PvE content, so that is how you get the magic stat that makes PvP gear not as good as PvE gear in PvE situations but better than PvE gear in PvP situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ....Did you even play Guild Wars? Are you suggesting he was incorrect? Please do so with an argument so we know what point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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