Bioware YOU caused crew skill imbalance... now you are making it worse... :/

[paul_preib]

To me the hallmark of a good profession/tradeskill is a decent number of fairly solid BOE craftable items that one can apply to make money/help an alt, coupled with just a couple really nice BOP items that helps the player feel like he is getting a specific benefit from picking that profession and leveling it up.

 

 

Were everything BOE then it would devalue tradeskills because everyone would have access to every single item. Yes that sound good on paper, but in practice it devalues the entire tradeskill aspect to a game.

 

 

 

The other option is to give extensive cooldowns or rare mats that are attainable in small-scale. This way you are able to supply alts via the long cooldowns, or make a decent profit, but don't simply mass-produce said top tier item.

 

 

 

This helps things like armortech/synthweaving to be much better able to hold value at the level cap without making them must-haves (say if a full armor set were craftable).

 

 

 

 

When you have some decent open-market access to crafting level 400 boe items paireds with a couple profession-specific BOP items to give you a reason to pick your specific profession I think you are in a much better place then all BOE.

[TwinShogun]

Signed

[Walking-Carpet]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. I have always hated BoP crafting in other games, and I was very disappointed to see it in SWTOR (albeit only at level 50).

 

With BoP crafting, it really sucks when you pick the "wrong" profession and have to re-level a new one from scratch, especially when the profession became the "wrong" one only because of a change in the game rules over which you have no control.

 

BoE crafting not only avoids this annoyance, but also fosters community/game economy because crafters will trade items with each other.

[DizzD]

Guys

 

either bioware has to add some useful stuff to other Crew skills

 

or they have to balance the material/time costs of the biochem Hyper-Battle stims/medpacks

 

Let's look at this subject from a larger angle...

 

If they change Rakata Biochem stuff into BoE, eventually everybody will have those and no biochemist will be able to earn credits by selling these stuff on the Galactic Trade center...

 

Now let's look at this item > Prototype Hyper-Battle Might Stim > Requires Level 48

Use: Increases Strength by 104 and Power by 43 for 120 minutes. Only one stimpack can be active at a time. This effect persists through defeat.

 

Now let's see what this item needs as raw material > Components:

4x Psychoactive Compound (Bioanalysis gathering)

1x Hypo-syringe (vendor)

6x Quick-Growth Agent (bioanalysis gathering)

4x Red Goo (bioanalysis gathering)

4x Experimental Serum (diplomacy mission)

 

In order to craft 1x Prototype stim, you have to spent around 2 hours of play time > 1 hour mission skill + 14-15 minutes for gathering mats + around 45 minutes for the craft...

 

 

 

So because of this, everybody is going biochemist, so people can use REUSABLE stuff.. And almost NOBODY is trying to craft prototype stims... Who would wanna spent 2 hours to craft 1x stim... And how much is gonna be the actual market price for that stim???

 

 

/discuss

 

please give ideas to balance this games crew skills

 

Not only this, but selling the raw mats is nearly as profitable and allows me to free up a toon to be harvesting the whole time instead of crafting.

 

The material/time cost of consumables should probably be lowered if biochems are "expected" to actually sell them on the GTN.

Edited January 17, 2012 by DizzD

[pyradius]

Crew skills aka craft skills are public service... it shouldn't be designed for private use...

 

Almost all the lvl 50 items that comes from crewskills are BoP... That means crafters can only craft for themselves... This is what causing the imbalance...

 

Instead of "nerfin" the biochem, you must remove all the extre preq for crafter items and make em all BoE...

 

This way everybody can use everything that comes from crew skills...

 

This way there can be 100% balance..

 

 

 

and some extra notes...

Tionese Implants are BoP

Columi Implants are BoE

Columi Relics BoP

 

 

What is the point of making BoP craft? what good is the craft skill if you can not sell your stuff? In order to balance every crew skill... just change every craft item to BoE so everybody can use em and no one would cry/whine on forums...

 

Raid quality craftables requires you to beat the content. You in essence EARNED it. Henceforth being able to provide raid level gear to non-raiders is probably not the best idea. Anyway, they essentially adopted the WoW crafting model in that aspect. Many of the best craftables were BoP.

 

Even if they weren't BoP, people would still whine that consumables are a perpetual money drain while the other craft skills are once-off purchases so biochem would still be considered the "ultimate" profession to avoid recurring costs.

Edited January 18, 2012 by pyradius

[bjbm]

What's that supposed to mean?

 

If you have synthweaving you will know what i mean, the gear you can make is useless, you get better gear from quests and drops, there's almost nothing good in it at all except for the rataki gear wich is at 400...

 

While artifice, cybertech etc. can make gear wich is actually useful...

 

I'm just saying give the synthweavers something wich is actually useful (I even got a synth recipe for a lower robe wich can only be used by Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor, and i play as a Jedi Consular)

 

 

And they nerfed slicing so they have to balance it all out anyway?

 

 

And people like me wont go away <3

 

my point is you people meaning you, me, us in the forum....bw doesnt care as they have shown quite evidently

[ortluk]

Once again, this makes too much sense, and probably a tiny bit harder to code versus

 

//#define RAKATAHEALAMOUNT 7000

#define RAKATAHEALAMOUNT 5000

 

See how much easier it is to code a nerf?

 

lol, you really think that stuff is hard coded?, it's more likely a simple database item edit. i.e. click the field erase the higher value and replace with a lower value. do it on the fly no re-compile no reboot just commit changes to database

[bjbm]

lol, you really think that stuff is hard coded?, it's more likely a simple database item edit. i.e. click the field erase the higher value and replace with a lower value. do it on the fly no re-compile no reboot just commit changes to database

 

hot damn you're right....its even EASIER to code a nerf than i thought

[Torn]

Nothing better then reading the massive QQ from people having something they worked ssoooooo HARD to get to 400, "nerfed".

Or how I usually call it : "Baby want to be above others."

I especially love the one who said 5k heal is nothing on 20k hp.

I'll keep eating my chips and wait for what come next in this hilarious thread.

 

lol ya - even though you have multiple threads talking about how you can lvl biochem in 5-6 hours....right

 

The problem is you CANNOT buy and use stim/adrenals as powerful as a biochem can use - giving them a HUGE advantage as they are 25% stronger than anything you can buy.....but let just slap a 400 requirement on both Rakata and Exotech .....stupid

 

I am changing to biochem for now because think of the amount of time it is going to take them to balance out the others - now if say (being a cybertech) I could add an extra mod slot or something to make up for the 25% difference and then use a stock adrenal/stim well that would be fine - but I cannot and the amount of time it is going to take is not worth not lvling biochem

Edited January 18, 2012 by Torn

[pyradius]

lol ya - even though you have multiple threads talking about how you can lvl biochem in 5-6 hours....right

 

The problem is you CANNOT buy and use stim/adrenals as powerful as a biochem can use - giving them a HUGE advantage as they are 25% stronger than anything you can buy.....but let just slap a 400 requirement on both Rakata and Exotech .....stupid

 

I am changing to biochem for now because think of the amount of time it is going to take them to balance out the others - now if say (being a cybertech) I could add an extra mod slot or something to make up for the 25% difference and then use a stock adrenal/stim well that would be fine - but I cannot and the amount of time it is going to take is not worth not lvling biochem

 

Add an extra mod slot to make up that massive 25% difference right? I mean, 2 is 100% bigger than 1!!! It is pointless to throw out the 25% number without putting it into the context of your character, which factors in uptime and % effect on your character. If you've really weighed this matter fully, perhaps you can tell me the actual 'effective' power gain of a medpack/stim/adrenal on your character vs. the 100% uptime (aka passive) bonus that an extra mod slot would provide you with.

Edited January 18, 2012 by pyradius

[Lexster]

1) There is no place in an MMO for unlimited use potions. Especially if you limit those unlimited use items to only one class. To even compensate for this ability the gear other crafters make would have to be BETTER than what anyone else could get from raids/grinding pvp. Having a perk that gives you a better potion is one thing, as you have to keep putting in effort to have that potion available, but when it no longer is used up it is simply an extra skill for choosing X craft.

 

2) All crafts should have consumables that are useful and in demand by others. This keeps the economy going with a constant state of turnover.

 

3) Along with number 1, nothing should really be BOP. When only one person can access it, eventually it will be nerfed to uselessness.

 

4) Current armor/weapons making crafts are the suck. Revamp the system so that all gear is modded, and green/blue/purple determines the number of augments available. Adjust the crafted gearsets so that similiar to what they did with progression videos, higher level armors make you look more and more bamf.

 

5) Reduce commendation rewards to crafted green items instead of the equivalent blue items.

[ThePunisherInc]

man you ppl are so *****y and act like babies. Im a trooper and i went bio, this means that i will not be able to get the best armor or gun that armstech or the armortech can as its as BOP stuff that are better then the loot that drops that drops from raids. You just need to be patiant and get the good pattern in raids. You dont raid.. well wait and buy the boe pattern at ah for credits.. its expansive!! well ppl that got it there spent time/credits to get it so PAY or ****.

 

Now if u dont raid.,. thats not our problem. You will be limited to the "crappy purple u get at vendor"

 

BUT

 

u can buy those pattern if u like at AH as in most of em are boe so can be sellable you dont HAVE to raid to get the pattern. Granted you will pay a lots but again not the raider problem..

 

When u freshly hit 400 you dont automatically get the best craftable stuff.. no no you gotta WORK for it. either making credits to but the BOE pattern or WIPE in raids till u get the boss kill.

 

Again.. you all ***** and moan cause bio can get some reusable.. thats OUR "best" craftable and u know what! its not vendable and its for lvl 400 bio user only! We do not make $$ with it. only thing we make $$ with are the stims and the other one that grant 1h buffs. Making em stay even when u died for full duration is already a rip off for the bio chem crafter as its takes a long time to craft.

 

As for ppl using stims/med packs in PVP if they wanna waste their money again.. Not our problem. They like buffs fine and if u dont think it fair.. buy some too and use em in PvP and stop qqing like babies.

 

thats my 2 cents for the cry babies that always think its not fair.. he got more then i do... i want.... me me me me me me me....

 

SHUT THE HELL UP AND MAN UP FFS

[Acidictadpole]

I agree with this. I'm generally against BoP things in general, but crafted items make no sense to BOP.

 

If things require some expertise to use (Reusable items), put a skill requirement on their use. The only things I'd agree with for this are the reusable grenades and stimpacks/adrenals though.

[AidenPryde]

So much fail in this game's itemization/crafting system it's not even funny.

 

STO had a better itemization system than this game does. And that was STO at LAUNCH with 1/10th the budget.

 

Why are people raiding in PvP gear?

 

Why is it so much harder to get the PvE T1.5-2 gear than it is PvP gear?

 

If you can't answer those two questions as developers you need to find a new line of work.

 

EDIT: The biochem issue was a mistaken post. It is just the required crafting level, not required for use.

Edited January 18, 2012 by AidenPryde

[anonymousclay]

If no BoP items are created through crafting, the only incentive for someone to actually level it is to make a couple credits.

 

Changing items from BoP to BoE is simply a different kind of nerf.

[Omite]

/signed

 

I can't believe they would nerf the 2 skills that actually had a little bit of usefulness. Do they want all crafting skills to be useless. What they should have done if buff the other ones.

[Unikatze]

I agree. I've been considering eliminating some crew skill and choose depending on what I'll be using at endgame.

[zomascape]

I agree with the op, No crafted items should ever be BoP.

 

From level 1 - 50 gear potency should look like this:

 

Quest drop/ World mob drops - Low

 

Instance gear/ Pvp gear - Average

 

Player crafted - Best

 

This goes for everything from consumables to to gear.

[Gruug]

Well know, how does it feel to be nerfed to oblivion. Someone on the forums complains alot and then the Devs over react.

 

My prediction...next craft to be made meaningless will be Cybertech....oh wait. No, they ONLY got the BOP grenades. But...but....what about the BoP speeders?

 

Be carefull what you ask for as you may get it by the mega-ton.

[Varturius]

I agree with the op, No crafted items should ever be BoP.

 

From level 1 - 50 gear potency should look like this:

 

Quest drop/ World mob drops - Low

 

Instance gear/ Pvp gear - Average

 

Player crafted - Best

 

This goes for everything from consumables to to gear.

 

Player crafted gear will never be the best, it's been stated entirely too many times (even by Bioware).

 

Biochem has an awesome perk at lvl 50/400, the other's don't have a perk of any kind. The medpac nerf was needed for obvious reasons.

 

Biochem isn't OP people need to quit crying. Just because the rest of the crafting skills suck at 50 doesn't justify ruining biochem, the others need to be fixed.

 

Bioware really did drop the ball on the crafting skills of this game. However considering the rest of this game is so damn good I think we can live with a poor crafting system for a few months can't we?

[flowqz]

to get my bis gear i have to run the relic crafting profession + my armor crafting profession getting the relic + belt + bracer proced with an augment slot to get my freakin rare +28mainstat augment placed in it, respecing to bio afterwards. sounds funny if u keep in mind that u cant use ur bio stims/adrenals/medpec till u skill up bio again.... yay!

 

 

--> i just dont like the augment slot mechanic aka critical crafts

 

that said, getting bis gear is almost impossible.

 

gj!

[Hellsworn]

man you ppl are so *****y and act like babies. Im a trooper and i went bio, this means that i will not be able to get the best armor or gun that armstech or the armortech can as its as BOP stuff that are better then the loot that drops that drops from raids. You just need to be patiant and get the good pattern in raids. You dont raid.. well wait and buy the boe pattern at ah for credits.. its expansive!! well ppl that got it there spent time/credits to get it so PAY or ****.

 

Now if u dont raid.,. thats not our problem. You will be limited to the "crappy purple u get at vendor"

 

BUT

 

u can buy those pattern if u like at AH as in most of em are boe so can be sellable you dont HAVE to raid to get the pattern. Granted you will pay a lots but again not the raider problem..

 

When u freshly hit 400 you dont automatically get the best craftable stuff.. no no you gotta WORK for it. either making credits to but the BOE pattern or WIPE in raids till u get the boss kill.

 

Again.. you all ***** and moan cause bio can get some reusable.. thats OUR "best" craftable and u know what! its not vendable and its for lvl 400 bio user only! We do not make $$ with it. only thing we make $$ with are the stims and the other one that grant 1h buffs. Making em stay even when u died for full duration is already a rip off for the bio chem crafter as its takes a long time to craft.

 

As for ppl using stims/med packs in PVP if they wanna waste their money again.. Not our problem. They like buffs fine and if u dont think it fair.. buy some too and use em in PvP and stop qqing like babies.

 

thats my 2 cents for the cry babies that always think its not fair.. he got more then i do... i want.... me me me me me me me....

 

SHUT THE HELL UP AND MAN UP FFS

 

You make no sense.

 

1- PvP Weapons are currently the best in the game, next to Rakatta. Thus, Armsmech is pointless atm.

 

2. PvP armor is better than T2. Thus Armormech is pointless atm.

 

Until they revamp this loot table and balance things better, the only crew skill's that are beneficial atm, Biochem, and Cybertech. Bio for the stims, and Cyber for the ship upgrades etc...

 

Troll less, add value more. Kthnxbye

[Bootsnboards]

Yes, BoP on purples makes no sense. Now they nerf our pots and make the cd longer, and since when is a 5k pot 50% of your HP on a 17-20k HP toon? Now I spent all my credits on leveling Biochem for nothing, you can't make any credits from it.

 

Meanwhile operatives run around in hide, push you to ground from behind and 2-3 shoot you... that doesn't need a nerf, the pots do! Oh, and now that we are on pots, the best ones are the ones you click and NO HP IS ADDED, just a new CD on your pot, nice game mechanics!

 

Here's what you do. You want to use the item yuo feel is so powerful? Train the crewskill and quit crying.

 

Anyone ever consider that crafting wasn't meant solely for use for end game players? Take your max level toon with 400 biochem... make your BOP for yourself, make implants and blue stims/medpacks for the rest. Make 100k an hour or more for your time, while doing other things since you send your crew out to do the work.

 

As it was before the retarded nerf (making the crew skill required for use is fine... taking the best thing available to the crafting class that has only very limited options for what it can do to benefit the player economically while levelling or endgame not so much) biochem was great for endgame. Other crew skills great for levelling and providing purple hilts, barrrels, money ie slicing, etc... What you're doing by striving for "balance" is screwing the game's diversity. Other games got WORSE, not better, when they became homogenized.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents. Cybertech's nerf, in the end, will do little to affect what made it truly useful, so not that worried about that. If you think the AMOUNT of damage it does is what makes a grenade useful, you misunderstood. It can do 1 HP of damage per tick, its still going to make interacting with a warzone objective impossible for its duration of effect if targetted right. THAT is why cybertech is useful. Warzones are less about killing and more about maintaining control of the playing field. In that regard, an AOE DOT is great no matter how much damage.

 

And if you tell me "killing someone is a great way to control the field" , no, its not. Kill someone in hutt ball and you gave them a free ticket up to their goal line to defend against a score. Kill someone in turrets and you saved them a run. Wipe an entire rush in turrets and you just positioed that entire rush halfway across the field was a huge head start on lightly defended objective. I can go on.... but don't think i need to. Warzones are about CC, slows, and control, not dps. So cyberteck, for pvp, still remains better than biochem, and now after the patch even more so. Problem is, biochem now has even less value for PVE as well. If you have a problem with crew skills, ask for others to be powered up, not the decent ones to be screwed into mediocrity LIKE the rest.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Bootsnboards

[Unext]

This is a complex problem caused by a poorly thought out crafting system.

 

First all professions should have one or two BIS items that they can SELL (NO BOP). For example Cybertech could make the best mods in the game, Armsmech could make the best barrels, Armormech and Synthweaving best belts and braces, etc...

 

Second all professions should be able to do one class thing that is special (maybe augment a piece of gear or a mod) to that skill. For example a Armsmech could augment a barrel, Cybertech a mod, Armor and Synth a piece of gear, etc...

 

Third these BIS items should NOT be gotten by raiding (and yes I raid and have cleared all current ops) but by some sort of crafting system. This could be done by a crafting storyline and missions to get the pattern or this could be done by crafting a certain number of special items or DEing for them whatever...

 

These changes are what I would hope Bioware would look at doing to make the system balanced because right now the only truly beneficial crew skill is Biochem.

[GnatB]

I dont think all crafted items should be BOP, then you would just choose the crew skill that made you the most money so that you could buy the item.

 

Crew skills should have a mixture of both, some items and recipes BOP some BOE with the very very best items (crafting recipes you get from end bosses in raids for instance) being BOP

 

Other viable items should be a mixture of both, but i do not agree with the argument that all craftable items should be BOE thats retarded.

 

I'm asuming you mean they shouldn't be BoE?

 

And yep, then you'll choose the crew skill that makes the most money so you could buy the items.

 

So? That's the point of tradeskills. Trading. Buying. Selling. And since this is trade, therefor dealing with supply/demand, the "tradeskill that makes the most money" will be whichever tradeskill is least represented.

 

So sorry, all craftable items SHOULD be BoE. Sorry. None should be BoP. Craft skills should be optional in general. A player who chooses no craft skill at all should be just as powerful as one who chooses a craft skill. Just far poorer.