Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[-PoLaRiS-]

This post is just plain silly. So tell me, if you wipe on a boss.....What was the problem?

 

 

 

Did some of your dps fail a void zone mechanic, and not move when they should have?

 

Did one of the dps pull threat off the tank and won't admit it?

 

Are several of your dps under-performing, and did you hit enrage? If so, who? and how do you correct the issue?

 

Are your tanks having trouble timing their tank swaps?

 

Are the tanks under-performing in terms of threat/dps themselves?

 

Was your group slow on interrupts, if so, who is slacking in this department and what changes can you make to avoid it again?

 

What source of damage did they take? Was it a void zone as mentioned? or was it lack of dispels that lead to them dieing, in which case you need to address your healers / dispellers.

 

Are your healers healing the correct people? Perhaps your raid healer isn't pulling their weight, but the tank healers are doing fine? How would you know? And who would you swap around?

 

Was CC broken on the adds? if so, what spell is breaking the CC? and more importantly who?

 

Are the adds not dieing fast enough? Who isn't switching to adds when asked, and who is, and how do you plan to sort this out ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Short of spending hours on vent, and expecting people to be completely honest and aware of their shortcomings, you would have no hope in hell of sorting this out.

 

 

 

A 'recount' like tool could tell you ALL of these things in under 2 minutes. Far more conducive than your BS smart-Alec comment.

 

This, this, this. Seriously, people who are scared to run with "Elitist" should just stick to their guild/friend's runs. Period. Without competition, the game gets extremely boring... You already track damage done for PvP. Guess we have no elitist there.

 

I feel as if I'm an above average player in MMOs. I've been insulted for my dps, tanking, & I've been praised for either. It's based on the people you run with. There can be amazing players who aren't ********s. How about giving us something that we can base our insults/praises that is actually factual. Instead of speculation.

[ugamer]

I want dps/threat/healing meters.

 

Why?

 

Basically, the meter is there to help your class's role.

 

It also shows who is pulling their weight in whatever Op or PVP instance they are in.

 

Say an Operative/Scoundrel (DPS) is pulling half the DPS as the other Op's/Scoundrels in an Operation. People will see that, and if they are as helpful as half of the people opposed to Meters are, the fellow DPS'ers will chew his *** and then help him along the lines to get his damage up to snuff.

 

But, if the player in question is fully removed from changing his ideals, spec, playstyle, what-have-you, then he should, AND WILL BE, replaced.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I want to be in groups with a competitive nature. Good players do best when confronted with better players stats. Bob from Accounting is pulling 3,000 HPS, and I'm only at 2500?! Eff that, I'm gonna heal my friggin face off! I'll heal that boss to DEATH... etc etc...

 

Those of you saying "It's just digital E-peen" are correct, and wrong at the same time.

 

It shows who's doing their job/role. Players that are uncomfortable with that should not be in groups with GOALS.

 

SWTOR is an MMO. MMO's are nothing but epeen and social machines. Dispute that.

[CaliVenom]

NO they are making a Damage meter available for PERSONAL use. IE you can see your own damage but not others.

 

im in favor of this idea, and a combat log, sometimes its nice to know what hits me for how much etc.

 

i know people dont want to bring bad dps etc into a group but i am of the belief that dps should not only be doing dps, but doing it smartly. as in, if they crit too much and pull aggro, to slow down to let the tank pick it back up, especially since this game is... lets say.... "different" and a lot of the aggro depends on how much damage the tank can do.

 

its great to have the idea for self improvement. i just don't like the idea of people being able to tell other people that they "suck".

 

so im against the recount idea, and up for something more as a personal damage meter/combat log.

 

plus this way, for those who want to compare how they are doing for their class, it forces them to convers with others of the same class and "compare notes" as it were.

[Batslav]

personal log is not bad sometimes when i get hit by player with some insane dmg i want to see what it was and why my hp droped in 2 seconds

 

some kind of agro warning or something will be good too cause atm its not easy to see if anyone have agro on them till their hp goes down

 

other than that no thanks gear score dmg meters etc are not needed

Edited February 7, 2012 by Batslav

[Dreadeh]

Imo, a Public Recount will just give the players less reason to communicate. it would also alienate some of the new players that did not fully comprehend the class dps/healing cycle.

 

But as a general idea. Enabling third party addons was a very successful approach by other MMOs and would surely increase the game's quality.

 

But as a suggestion. i think what SWTOR should do is copy Blizzard's results , not process.

 

For example : Blizzard had a 3rd party custom addon for quests direction ...etc. and eventually implemented it in the game. and did the same thing in threat generation addons and raid rolls addons. All this without actually affecting the gameplay / lag tolerance.

[bliapis]

One thing is that BW stated that all dps are more or less equal. A damage meter will prove the point and require (right out from the player's mouth) to boost X class damage or down it a bit.

[Aleeha]

I support BioWare opening up the API's so that I can design my own UI applications for ME. Not for you or anyone else.

 

I like many have cleared all the content in this game on all the levels. Struggled through all the g0ddamn Soa, Plyon and Ghajr bugs in NMM and hardmode, without ever having any combat parses. See people like me were able to read the tooltips and or go to sithwarrior.com (the elitistjerks of SWTOR) and read about our rotation and make it work, without any combat parses.

 

However, I will agree that it would be nice to see data like - damage taken and by what. It would also be nice to be able to design things that I think are cool for my UI.

 

Keep in mind that Blizzard doesn't write all the nefty addon's that you get in WoW, these are written by nerds like me.

[bliapis]

if the mob dies and the group doesn't = we doing enough dmg/heal/tank

 

if the group dies and the mob doesn't = we need to do more dmg/heal/tank

 

don't need a recount to tell me what I already know

 

yes but the question remains... WHO IS THE WEAK LINK!

[Stenrik]

Combat log first... then maybe meters farther down the line.

[Drainedsoul]

I support BioWare opening up the API's so that I can design my own UI applications for ME.

 

This.

 

BioWare can either open up the mod APIs and let the community add "features" to the game, or deal with an endless fest of crying about everything.

 

People don't cry about the cooldown indicator in WoW because they can mod it away.

 

People don't cry about their being no built in dps meter in WoW because there's a mod that adds one.

 

And so on and so forth.

 

Expecting people to compete to get features they want put in, or compete over how such a feature is going to be implemented (i.e. squeaky wheel...), or leaving the feature set and the implementation up to devs, is not the solution.

 

People need to stop calling for specific features, and need to start calling for the elimination of the cause of the lack of these features, i.e. the lack of a modding API.

[Jedlosson]

No, thank you. I do not want dps meter.

 

I hate when two of the party members start an argument who has low dps and how n00b the other one is. Especially in situations when dps does not really matter. Usually breaks the party and the fun of the game. Not to mention that it often ends up by one of them leaving and the rest of the party is forced to look for replacement.

 

What would be acceptable compromise for me is a dps meter that only shows your dps. That way you would know that you are doing something wrong and would help you find a correct rotation for your class. Otherwise it is just a tool for elitist jerks to annoy people around them.

[Drainedsoul]

No, thank you. I do not want dps meter.

 

I hate when two of the party members start an argument who has low dps and how n00b the other one is. Especially in situations when dps does not really matter. Usually breaks the party and the fun of the game. Not to mention that it often ends up by one of them leaving and the rest of the party is forced to look for replacement.

 

What would be acceptable compromise for me is a dps meter that only shows your dps. That way you would know that you are doing something wrong and would help you find a correct rotation for your class. Otherwise it is just a tool for elitist jerks to annoy people around them.

 

So what you're saying is that the player base should miss out on a feature that they want and which is useful because you can't tune people out/use the ignore feature?

[Retadine]

There will be people that will abuse "Recount" but I think it's a necessary evil. There are times when it's impossible to complete an encounter because somebody is not playing the class to its potential. You've got to have a way to tell them "Hey, maybe you're using autoattack too much" or "Hey, your class shouldn't be using this ability any more".

[JoyProtocol]

...Otherwise it is just a tool for elitist jerks to annoy people around them.

 

Hey hey hey, Elitist Jerks has been an incredible educational tool for me once upon a time

[Lerthan]

No we don't need a recount in the game. If the encounters are based on doing the fight right and not based on a dps burn then it dosnt matter how poor or good your dps is.

 

The only time your DPS matters is if the boss has an enrage timer or some mechanic that says boss has to be dead in so many seconds or everybody dies. This is a cheap cop out for a poorly designed encounter.

 

If however the fight is based on dealing with the mechanics of the fight and doing those right, it becomes really easy to tell who the bad player is. They are the ones that are dead mid way or sooner into the fight. The good players are the ones who live till the boss is dead.

 

I for one would rather have a player that does average dps but actually lives and contributes the entire fight over somebody that does top dps but dies halfway threw the fight every time. Unfortunately this is exactly what recount causes. The majority of the player base caring more about how big there numbers are vs actually playing smart and finishing the fight. They then blame the players that do not top the meter for the failure instead of realizing that them dying halfway thru the fight is what actually caused the wipe.

[Direttafis]

meters and logs serve a real purpose...

 

To those that want them .... yay...

 

to those that don't want them, don't use them.

 

If you don't want them because you don't want to look @ them fantastic, please refer to above statement.

 

If you don't want them because you are being called out for poor performance, you're a casual player, what ever the reason may be.. Either improve your performance or find a casual group that doesn't mind wiping because one or several people arent able to pull the performance needed.

 

To those who said that it is the group that can't down it ... if one person (tank taking too much dmg, healer not healing enough, dps pulling low numbers) is not performing that one person is not the groups problem...

 

Unfortunately, with out a meter, if the tank keeps dying you have no idea if it is because the tank is taking too much dmg or if the healer isn't healing enough and you start to point fingers with out actually knowing where the problem is.

 

If you keep hitting an enrage timer ... Which dps is holding you back?

 

Suddenly one person is stonewalling an entire raid group and that raid group does not have the ability to find and correct the problem.

 

You want a game with out finger pointing then play a game where the content is so simple that not everyone needs to perform optimally or play a single player game.

 

However when you play a game that relies on the cooperative performance of an entire group it is necessary to know who you are about to raid with, how they can perform, how they do perform.... If that wasn't the case and the game wasn't designed that way then the content would be designed so that anyone can do it without optimal, or even close, raid awareness and class performance.

 

 

for those that say they don't want to see people getting called out or they wouldn't do dungeons or raids because they where getting called out ... please scroll to the top of this post.

[DaxRendar]

However when you play a game that relies on the cooperative performance of an entire group it is necessary to know who you are about to raid with, how they can perform, how they do perform.... If that wasn't the case and the game wasn't designed that way then the content would be designed so that anyone can do it without optimal, or even close, raid awareness and class performance.

 

All Content in this game at all Difficultly Levels has been cleared without Meters or even Combat Logs in game, so I guess by your own criteria they aren't needed!

[Uluain]

No, I don't feel this kind of measure is necessary to the game.

 

I understand that some find this kind of feedback deeply meaningful, even useful in optimizing for the most competitive build possible.

 

But I feel that since the UI as it stands, without addons or macros, is the same available to all that all players possess the same degree of opportunity to inspect their builds and improve their preparedness for PvE or PvP play.

 

Other elements of the game are a much higher priority for me.

[Nexusissei]

My guild doesn't. That's also why I'm not in a raiding guild.

 

I've got better things to do than to listen to people rattle off numbers and force me to change my class or specialisation because of what they think is best. These meters and such are only a means for that type of behaviour to exist.

 

It's important for you to see that there's a world outside of yourself of differing needs and desires. You have a non-raiding guild that wouldn't use it, and that's fine. But don't request that I shouldn't have what I want or find useful just because it's not useful for you.

[Tarrent]

Um.

 

An in-game version of Recount like you seem to be suggesting - - one which can evaluate gear and role to an extent - has been thought about by Blizzard for WoW and NOT put in because they say there are many issues and difficulties with making it work right.

 

IMO bioware should not attempt this one, at least not at this stage of things.

 

The depiction in the OP of people magically transforming into kind and understanding people when they see the in-game damage meter reporting that someone's low-damage is just a part of their gear is BOGUS.

 

Same bogusness goes for (user-created) Recount automagically transforming ppl into jerks.

 

Jerks will be jerks, no matter the tool. And having said that, I patiently wait for the game to (hopefully?) support LUA and have combat logs.

[Noxsabe]

 

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

 

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

 

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

 

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

 

With Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

 

 

Without Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

-

EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

 

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

 

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

 

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

 

People who don't like Recount.

 

Good god not this again, you want damage meter like stuff go play world of warcraft !! i'm not gonna be singled out again in this new mmo cus of i don't play as much and cus i'm not always have good gear or good DPS have!! not all bad DPS'ers are lamzors leetchers or what ever, with a dps like meter system i will get kicked out of most groups cus my gear is either not good "witch i wana up and do the flashpoint or raid in the first place" or i have a bad day and don't deliver top DPS ... NO NO NO damage meter will do more harm then good i'v seen it WoW many times, players that wanted to gear up getting no chance in a group spot cus there current gear won't give them good DPS, NO NO NO, BW if you add this function you will lose one great Star Wars Fan i will quit this game, and i know this will not impact you in anyway but i don't care i'v said it! NO DAMAGE METER LIKE SYSTEM

 

oh btw i did not read all, so i have no idea if this idea is liked or not! this is just my opinion about an damage meter like system.

[Navakai]

Good god not this again, you want damage meter like stuff go play world of warcraft !! i'm not gonna be singled out again in this new mmo cus of i don't play as much and cus i'm not always have good gear or good DPS have!! not all bad DPS'ers are lamzors leetchers or what ever, with a dps like meter system i will get kicked out of most groups cus my gear is either not good "witch i wana up and do the flashpoint or raid in the first place" or i have a bad day and don't deliver top DPS ... NO NO NO damage meter will do more harm then good i'v seen it WoW many times, players that wanted to gear up getting no chance in a group spot cus there current gear won't give them good DPS, NO NO NO, BW if you add this function you will lose one great Star Wars Fan i will quit this game, and i know this will not impact you in anyway but i don't care i'v said it! NO DAMAGE METER LIKE SYSTEM

 

oh btw i did not read all, so i have no idea if this idea is liked or not! this is just my opinion about an damage meter like system.

 

Worst argument. Ever.

[EuphoricAnguish]

Recount was the worst thing to happen to WoW when it comes to mods.

 

Please, no.

[Darkstarstride]

Recount was the worst thing to happen to WoW when it comes to mods.

 

Please, no.

^ True Statement.

 

let recount die in that other MMO.

[RedClip]

Please don't do this.

 

This is going to lead to people adjusting their play style based solely on the numbers. Any unique aspects a specialization offer will be cast aside in favor of community approved builds designed to ramp up the numbers.

 

Its bad enough people are already starting to show perference for gear over performance. Don't make it worse by adding a recount meter.