Why are people such jerks? (repost from General)

[comeonucrazyguy]

First off let me apologize, As an older gamer (I'm not stating my age) I feel like there was a lapse in the way the generation that followed mine has become. Second I just have a question, where are the moderators or gm's? I havent been the target of nerd rage yet, but it seems like theres a lack of in game gm's. I recently joined a small very nice guild who has so far helped me in every way they can. Because of that I keep an eye on the chat bar and have seen the absolutly disgusting way people on this game treat each other. I've played a lot of online games going all the way back to MUDS (if anyone remembers what that is) and i have yet to see a game whose community is as flat out rude as this one.

 

From my experience the community has been overall pretty nice. Maybe it's YOU, as an 'older gamer' that needs to chill.

[Krakov]

Can't handle the heat, then get outta the kitchen.

 

I play with the same 'jerks' you do and have been blasted by them as well. But none are on my ignore list and none of them have caused me to lose any sleep.

 

Know why?

 

ITS A GAME. I don't give two sh*ts about what faceless people on the internet think about me or the way I play. I am not here to socialize and make friends, I don't need recognition. I am here to play a Star Wars GAME.

 

And honestly you must be a gluten for punishment, but if you're not good (and you know if you're not good) then don't join strangers on missions and flashpoints. There are nice helpful people out there, remember them - friend them, help them in return.

 

Playing a game is a privilege, not a right. The general rules of society don't apply to an MMO because its a game, its not real. If you can't handle that, then maybe you should find a game that doesn't require you to interact with all the a-holes on the internet.

 

I just tell ppl that if you dont like the way I play in PvE or PvP, then you can pay for my account and tell me how to play...usually shuts em up depending on who the emo elietist pvp jerk is I'm addressing at the time...gotta love all of those internet tough guys...

[GrayForceUser]

Why are people such jerks? | Today , 01:09 AM

 

If you don't like the way someone is playing their character, don't tell them OMG U SUK, REROLL NUB. If you find a female online, the correct response to them being around is not LOL GIRLZ DON'T PLAY, GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN.

 

I agree with everything you said....except the part about my slave and the kitchen.

 

No but seriously. That is how the internet goes. Their's a mask of shadow around everyone's face so theirs no repercussions, no worry about the consequences. I don't like it and I sure as hell don't advocate it but that is, pure and simple, the reason people are @#$&'s on the internet.

[hushia]

Can't handle the heat, then get outta the kitchen.

 

I play with the same 'jerks' you do and have been blasted by them as well. But none are on my ignore list and none of them have caused me to lose any sleep.

 

Know why?

 

ITS A GAME. I don't give two sh*ts about what faceless people on the internet think about me or the way I play. I am not here to socialize and make friends, I don't need recognition. I am here to play a Star Wars GAME.

 

And honestly you must be a gluten for punishment, but if you're not good (and you know if you're not good) then don't join strangers on missions and flashpoints. There are nice helpful people out there, remember them - friend them, help them in return.

 

Playing a game is a privilege, not a right. The general rules of society don't apply to an MMO because its a game, its not real. If you can't handle that, then maybe you should find a game that doesn't require you to interact with all the a-holes on the internet.

 

Ok, so for you it's a game and therefor not real. I find that odd because we are all real life people playing those characters. I'm not an NPC, are you?

Good for you that you don't care about some people's immature and jerkish behavior. But I do care. Some of us play MMO's because of the social aspect and feeling part of a community, making friends and having a good time. And some of us get really ticked off by the crowd in /general trying to spoil the atmosphere intentionally or not.

 

What I don't like about your reply is the "Don't like it, leave and otherwise shut it." attitude. When people go out of their way to annoy others and be jerks I have every right to get annoyed by it. Because it is *not* normal to behave in that manner. I'm not the one at fault for feeling annoyed by jerkish behavior.

 

To the OP: I left WoW because I had enough of the rude behavior of people in Pugs. Tried out four servers in this game until by accident I found an RP server. That was such a relieve. Having the time of my life now. Guess what they say about RP servers is true, much more pleasant crowd there.

[Pekish]

The first plague in a MMORPG it's community not bugs or bad programming...

 

That ruined most of my past experience in any MMO way more than bugs or bad thought out game-mechanics ever did...

 

The best advice people give you will be lock yourself in a guild and that's it... sorry but i play an MMO to interact with a living world not with my 20 friends otherwise i can go and play a FPS or some sort of home based network game

 

I always... always roll RP server both PVE and PVP but that doesn't solve it either

 

I will be willing to pay extra to have a server closely monitored by a full time person that deals with this type of person.

 

Company should make a server where u pay 1$? 2$? Hack! Even 3$ more (20%more) in order (3$x3000K people = 9000$ a month) to pay 3x3000$/mo person 8 hours a day (x3) to monitor the community answer ticket and dealing with anti-social behavior etcetc.

 

for me the MMORPG it's the community not the game i am in SWTOR world and I expect at least a sort of education and respect i saw in the movies otherwise it feels like i am in LOL-Land... and honestly i wont pay to play in LOL-Land

 

*** is wrong with make 1 server an "adult-attitude RP server"

please make us pay more but give us what we want and actively monitor it

Edited January 17, 2012 by Pekish

[Sunsoar]

Theyre probably europeans op. Oh I went there

[memoriesofprey]

I have yet to be offended by anything on General. I honestly believe there's humour hidden in most 'insults', though I have no doubt there are a few pockets that like spitting their vitriol. In a lot of ways, the internet is like a public high school gym locker.

 

Everyone assumes familiarity, and once that's realized, it gets a lot more pleasant.

 

Of course, there will always be troublemakers and malcontents. **** them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by memoriesofprey

[Paxx_Maximus]

OP don't let the bullies / trolls drive you away from something you enjoy.

 

They are NOT the majority of people online but you seem to remember them because of the negative interaction that you remember.

 

Serial bullies / trolls harbour a lot of internal aggression which they direct at others.

 

This may include projection, false criticism and patronising sarcasm, racism, sexist remarks and other things considered impolite in mixed company whilst contributing nothing of any value.

 

The purpose of this tactic is to wind people up. Don't be fooled into believing it has any validity - it doesn't.

 

They are not playing this game for the same reason you are. No. They play this game to torment others.

 

The objectives of bullies / trolls are Power, Control, Domination, Subjugation. They get a kick out of seeing you react.

 

It doesn't matter how you react, the fact they've successful provoked a reaction is, to the bully, a sign that their attempt at control have been successful.

 

After that, it's a question of wearing you down. The more your try to explain, negotiate, conciliate, etc the more gratification they obtain from your increasingly desperate attempts to communicate with them.

 

Understand that it is not possible to communicate in a mature adult manner them.

 

Don't give them a second of your time. IGNORE THEM! They do not exist and that is how you fight them. They NEED attention (negative or positive) to survive.

 

Focus on the good things my friend. Don't let a handful of people ruin something that you enjoy doing.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Paralassa
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[SevTrando]

BUMP for getting community's attention.

 

What type of server are you on? PVP servers, even/especially RP-PVP (because people only see the -PVP suffix) are the most unreasonable people in any and every mmo. PVE servers are hit or miss, RP servers are generally more tame. I've only had one person that's caused problems on mine.

 

Also, don't play on NA servers. EU has a community of remarkable propriety in comparison, and I've never in my career seen remotely political discussion on their servers.

 

Political discussion is unacceptable IC, OOC, and IRL, because everyone is wrong.

[lindsu]

Thanks for all the feedback, positive and negative.

 

To all the people that say, "that's the internet", it really shouldn't be like that in a place that I pay for monthly. I'm paying to enjoy my experience like everyone else. This game IS a privilege and not a right and the people who want to ruin the experience for other people, should be punished.

 

I'm not talking about people joking around in general, I'm talking about people HARASSING other people in general. Sure, you can /ignore them but there will always be another and that's what's bothering me about the community.

 

It's totally fine if everything is done in jest, the problem is when lines get crossed and feelings get hurt. Its a problem when players don't have tact and don't have nice things to say. It's OK to be upset if someone messed up in a PVP group or a mission but it is NOT OK to treat that person as if they were nothing. Chances are, they will listen to constructive criticism.

 

So, I gathered up my friends and left the server I was on and switched to an RP server playing Republic. I really enjoyed my Sith and the Empire but at what cost to my own well being? Its not fair that I had to do that but we as a group decided that it's best.

 

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but with over 10 years online gaming experience, this is the first time I've felt really hurt and threatened by the gaming community.

[Iamafk]

The problem with your logic is that "offensive" is subjective. Some women are really offended by "get in the kitchen and make me a sammich". I am not. You can also call me vulgar names and I won't take offense to it, because well I really don't care what someone on the internet thinks of my digital persona. The game has given you the tools you need to deal with people you feel are offensive.

 

Should I be able to control the way YOU play because you sucking at PvP is ruining my PvP matches and thus my gameplay experience? (just an example, I have no idea on how you play and if you're good or not).

 

Just like real life, there are good and bad people out there. At least in game you have ignore! Find a guild use the ignore feature or turn it off. We can't even eliminate bullies in real life, so do you really expect results in a video game?

[MoistMuffin]

Welcome to the interwebs and MMO communities. Working as intended.

[Aerithel]

I've played so many games online since I was 16/17 but this is the first game (yes, first) that the culture has gotten to me. 10 years ago, it really wasn't this bad. There is just no respect for our fellow human beings anymore.

 

Damn those youngins and their lack of respect these days.

 

Okay, in all seriousness, while I completely agree with your frustrations with respect to just how immature, childish, and highly disrespectful today's generation has become. Exerio hit the nail right on the head, so I won't repeat what he wrote - the problem you talk about is just something that can't be fixed without a greater society change, so sadly, your best bet is to just ignore it.

 

It's also especially disruptive to see channels being used for purposes other than as they were intended (in Warcraft, was Trade chat ever used to actually sell stuff?), but if it's there, people will use it, and not for the intended purpose, as it gives them a channel to be heard by many.

 

And as a female gamer, there's no way I'd take being told to get back into the kitchen. A *real* man would be happy to make his lady a sandwich

[lindsu]

The problem with your logic is that "offensive" is subjective. Some women are really offended by "get in the kitchen and make me a sammich". I am not. You can also call me vulgar names and I won't take offense to it, because well I really don't care what someone on the internet thinks of my digital persona. The game has given you the tools you need to deal with people you feel are offensive.

 

Should I be able to control the way YOU play because you sucking at PvP is ruining my PvP matches and thus my gameplay experience? (just an example, I have no idea on how you play and if you're good or not).

 

Just like real life, there are good and bad people out there. At least in game you have ignore! Find a guild use the ignore feature or turn it off. We can't even eliminate bullies in real life, so do you really expect results in a video game?

 

This is the wrong attitude. The thing is, there SHOULD BE NO BULLIES, OR very few. And in real life, there are far less bullies than there are online.

 

Offensive isn't exactly subjective. Just because you aren't offended by something that was deemed to be does not make it inoffensive, it just makes it ineffective. Congratulations, you may have thicker skin than me but that STILL does not make bullying OK.

 

Does it really matter if I'm terrible at the game? I can tell you I'm not but it doesn't matter if I say so or not because you're going to make the assumption that I am because I've been harassed. You really think its OK to harass people and that it's the victim's fault for being harassed?

 

Think about that.

[NessusFett]

hate to break it to the OP'r

 

but too many little kids had their parents just set them in front of the TV instead of raising them.

 

people have absolutely no responsibility for their actions inline and its never going to change.

 

until they have SEVERE consequences for anything rude or otherwise unpleasant (which is obviously impossible)

you can just log out and everything and one that you were just upsetting disappears.

in real life people get the **** beat out of them for the same things they do all day online.

 

we can only hope they startto think thats ok behavior and someone in real life finds then and corrects it... since its obvious their parents failed to do so

[Cindron]

Should I be able to control the way YOU play because you sucking at PvP is ruining my PvP matches and thus my gameplay experience? (just an example, I have no idea on how you play and if you're good or not).

 

You are missing the point. Not a desire to control gameplay. Simply asking for civility. Play your game and have a good time. Whoop and holler with your friends, call each other names if it makes you happy. But courtesy and respect for others allowing them to enjoy are not things to be abandoned when signing in. And if blasting others online is the only way a person can seek pleasure and they feel that they have a right to act so, don't you think that is an issue? If not, why?

 

And there are things you can do when dealing with bullies in real life. Doing nothing is what empowers the bully in game or real life. I'm not claiming real life or game solutions are perfect, there are mechanisms in both to help deal with the situations. But I do believe there are things that can be done to improve such conduct in game.

 

I got a blast watching what happens in another mmo. Soon as the person is reported they are instantly teleported into a small room with a gm who reviews the chat in question, asks some questions and takes immediate action. Can you catch em all, just like real life the answer is no. But it would certainly make many think twice.

[lorddakar]

We do need an actual report button. to many times have there people flaming others for no obvious reason and they walk away unpunished.

[hobofett]

I play on Trask Ulgo - EU and so far I haven't met anyone that acted half as bad as what I am used to from WoW.

 

Challenge accepted! I am Empire side. :D;)

[NessusFett]

We do need an actual report button. to many times have there people flaming others for no obvious reason and they walk away unpunished.

 

it would get abused more than anything

[Uruare]

I couldn't agree more with the OP.

 

I, personally, don't like how immediate it's become for me to verbally maul someone for rubbing me the wrong way like so many have described here. Too many years of being tolerant and answering inane, childish ignorance with patience has left me with none at all for most of it.

[Partizan_Cholek]

I 100% agree with this post. I've particularly found that the second planet of each faction (Coruscant and Dromund Kaas *in particular*) contain some fairly rancid players.

 

I have now re-rolled from a PVP server of particular note because the community was just absolutely intolerable. I logged in once, said "hello Nar Shaddaa" in General chat, and the next comment was from someone named "Fruit" and consisted of, and I quote, "fu." That's just classless doucheism, plain and simple.

 

But to be perfectly honest with you, I've found that PVP-ism in general can really result in some fairly low-class players (see above). I see the level of people coming from games like WoW and Eve, and there are some organizations that just consist of 100% vitriol and play just to ruin the experience of other people. It's one thing to PVP, it's another thing to corpse camp, but it's entirely another thing for a person to sit in general chat constantly telling everything else that they should get AIDS and that they hope everyone's children has Down Syndrome. That's not a game worth paying for, or a community worth engaging.

 

To the OP: Ultimately, I bit the bullet. I rerolled on a PVE-RP server, and have had a great experience so far overall (though there will always be a few percentage points of ugliness). I lost maybe a week's worth of time in playing for having to reroll, but the tradeoff is that I can group with people who are 95%+ time respectful, and usually moreso friendly. I would encourage you to try and evaluate your overall in-game ROI. If other people are ruining your experience, sometimes it's better to just find a new home. I'm in a great guild, with people who are engaging, fun to chat with, and just in general friendly and respectful. I hope you are able to find the same.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Partizan_Cholek

[DrunkenGundark]

This is the wrong attitude. The thing is, there SHOULD BE NO BULLIES, OR very few. And in real life, there are far less bullies than there are online.

 

Offensive isn't exactly subjective. Just because you aren't offended by something that was deemed to be does not make it inoffensive, it just makes it ineffective. Congratulations, you may have thicker skin than me but that STILL does not make bullying OK.

 

Does it really matter if I'm terrible at the game? I can tell you I'm not but it doesn't matter if I say so or not because you're going to make the assumption that I am because I've been harassed. You really think its OK to harass people and that it's the victim's fault for being harassed?

 

Think about that.

 

All of this right here is starting to get complicated because while I agree that the general rule of thumb should simply be "Don't act like a jerk to anyone," the poster you quoted brings up a valid point.

 

I don't necessarily hold to the idea that just because someone is "offended" that there's some sort of crime taking place. People get offended by lots of things, and as unpopular as this view may be, sometimes the things people get offended by are just flat out trivial. (Note, I'm speaking generally.)

 

That being said, whenever someone wants to drop the hammer and curtail everyone's behavior for the sake of one or even a few who find something offensive, I get a little leery.

 

But that's not really what we're discussing here. What we're discussing here, are people who are clearly setting out with one purpose: to deliberately antagonize other players. This isn't a case of "You said something that hurt my feelings, but it only hurt my feelings because I interpreted it one way when you meant it in another." This is about people who are flat out being insulting. And it's obvious that those people are just flat out wrong and there's no justifying that.

 

As for what can be done about it, as people have already mentioned, there are options, maybe not always desirable ones, but there are options. Reporting that kind of poor behavior, ignore lists, stuff like that. Personally, it galls me that it's the more reasonable folk who have to bend while the screaming morons get to keep on doing what they're doing, but it's like that old saying goes, don't fight an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Edited January 17, 2012 by DrunkenGundark

[Erasimus]

From my experience the community has been overall pretty nice. Maybe it's YOU, as an 'older gamer' that needs to chill.

 

Hey, I'm an older gamer, how old isn't the point, but my son is in his 40s

 

Expecting civility in general chat is like expecting reasonable posts on the comment sections of news pages, or forums for that matter, it will seldom happen, when it does, enjoy it. For whatever reason many of the more immature personalities in MMOs spend more time "chatting" than playing. Much of it can be pretty crude (e.g. Barrens Chat in WoW).

 

Some are young and just experimenting with being what they think of as "adult" or "cool" or whatever, it is part of growing up.

 

Some have real issues and the internet, general chat, are used as outlets for their frustration.

 

Others get their social fix playing games and deserve your sympathy more than your ire.

 

In other words it is a cross section of society with many constraints removed due to the anonymity provided by the internet.

 

I'm just another older fellow so my solution has been (for over 7 years in multiple MMOs) to simply block all of the general channels so I can be more selective about who I associate with, not much different from real life.

 

While I say up to date on software engineering, play computer games, etc. I still have problems with some of the changes, for example I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would sign up or post to a twitter feed

[Iamafk]

Didn't miss the point at all. You missed my point, which is, where do you draw the line?

 

You can't, because it's subjective. I'm offended that you told me to pass the ball in huttball. You're telling ME how to play the game. I didn't log on to grab the huttball and stand in fire to have YOU tell ME how to play nicely.

 

If you don't like adult language there's an adult language filter. You don't like how another player is speaking, there's the ignore button.

 

Where do you draw the line on where your enjoyment of the game is infringing on MY enjoyment of the game?

 

In real life how often do you get an actual reaction from a a bully, by saying, "hey you're being a douche?" Chances are pretty slim. Bullies are looking for attention, bullies are looking for validation, they're TRYING to get a reaction from you. To me, ignore works just fine.

 

Trolls have prided themselves on getting server first bans, posting GM chats, and having multiple accounts that have been banned. I don't think the threat of a GM is going to stop people from saying some of the more obnoxious things that the say.

 

You can't force someone to be nice. You can't MAKE someone not be offended at being called a nerfherder. Where do you draw the line on what's considered civil? When is a joke too far? Where precisely is the line? While there are certainly vile and abusive people and chat (I've seen my fair share in tons of MMO's) it's entirely subjective as to what is vile and offensive. You can create tickets, you can ignore people and you can turn off chat all together. I think that's enough.

 

Should I be able to control the way YOU play because you sucking at PvP is ruining my PvP matches and thus my gameplay experience? (just an example, I have no idea on how you play and if you're good or not).

 

You are missing the point. Not a desire to control gameplay. Simply asking for civility. Play your game and have a good time. Whoop and holler with your friends, call each other names if it makes you happy. But courtesy and respect for others allowing them to enjoy are not things to be abandoned when signing in. And if blasting others online is the only way a person can seek pleasure and they feel that they have a right to act so, don't you think that is an issue? If not, why?

 

And there are things you can do when dealing with bullies in real life. Doing nothing is what empowers the bully in game or real life. I'm not claiming real life or game solutions are perfect, there are mechanisms in both to help deal with the situations. But I do believe there are things that can be done to improve such conduct in game.

 

I got a blast watching what happens in another mmo. Soon as the person is reported they are instantly teleported into a small room with a gm who reviews the chat in question, asks some questions and takes immediate action. Can you catch em all, just like real life the answer is no. But it would certainly make many think twice.

[Fryseboks]

I have a 41 Commando, 30 Sentinel.

 

Also a level 17 Sith Assassin and level 12 powertech.

 

The entire time spent getting my commando to 41 and sentinel to 30 on republic side, I have not run into behaviour I have frequently met on my imperial characters, who are yet to get off droomund kas.

 

For some reason on my server, republic side is way more friendly and helpful, while empire is much less so

Edited January 17, 2012 by Fryseboks