Operatives: Most broken garbage balance ever.

[Puzzlybox]

I get away from Ops if I have CC break and my 1 min 4second stun up no problem. If you survive the initial burst (atleast as a Healer), you have a shot at recovering. And yes, I've also been close to one-two globaled/one-shot/dead before I could react by the Biochem Battlemaster OPs.

 

That said, I still think they hit a smidge too hard. Simply one person assist off the OP's from stealth combo should annihilate anyone in a few globals. I wouldn't mind a slight tweak down. Aside from that, I don't have an issue.

 

Burst classes keep healers (especially premade-based Guard-augmented cross-healing) in check. Sure, you can nerf OP's burst significantly and the knockdown.

 

But then you'll be crying about unkillable Healers next.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Puzzlybox

[RemyDMartin]

 

The trouble with pvp today is this silly ideal that blizzard taught you all, an now you dont know any better, that is that all classes have to be equal. They should NEVER be equal, skill an diversity in pvp are corner stones of what made MMos so good before that rubbish came out.

 

^He gets it^

 

There is a thing called strategy and it used to mean something. and there is this even more seemingly foreign thing called team work.

[Daeromas]

It takes a special kind of fail for that to happen to you. Don't blame the game for you being bad at it, blame yourself that you let your face get rolled over and over when you had 7 other people on your team that you could have asked for help. QQ

[Syft]

Stun locking mechanics were broken in WoW and they are broken here. They allow for weak pvper's to excel with the same tactic vs every class.

 

PvP skill is based on timing and adapting counters to other class abilities, you don't need to do that when you can chain stun/knockdowns with high burst, and then when you add healing, high survivability, and stealth you get a complete cluster-f**k.

 

They should have ability timer knockdowns that lockout current players abilities on CD's and not win vs all stuns and knockdowns. The very fact that they can stealth and escape allows them the adavantage to pick their battles in pvp, negating any focus fire arguements. Like the OP troll defenders say L2P because any stealther shouldn't throw himself into a situation where they can be focus'd on.

[Zilvafein]

this is what scoundrel/op damage is actually like...here in this video. no consumables used. note the total lack of 5k crits you all whine about...

 

 

In your video:

1.21: 4.6 crit followed by a ton of 500+ hits.

1.45: 3k crit, outside stealth.

2.04, 2.06: 3k, followed by 2k. Both outside stealth. (thats 5k in less than 3 seconds)

2.40: 4497 crit.

3.29: WHOOPS! 5k crit!

3.32: 3.2k crit, outside stealth.

 

So, we can now establish, from your own video evidence. That the class, on regular basis, does 2-3.5k crits, outside stealth. Averaging on 2.5k.

 

So, the premise of your entire argument, is:

1) Based on a single piece of video evidence, which does not prove much in that its just one source, you need multible sources to validate something.

2) Based on a video evidence, which proves you wrong.

 

Therefore:

Your conclusion, being based on evidence that contracts your arguments, must be discarded as incorrect.

[neurosisxeno]

I have played Lethality and Medic in PvP for 33 Valor Ranks and have almost never died to a Concealment Op in the times people are reporting. In fact, with trinket down unless they stim stack I routinely get away with 33% or more HP. Most people don't realize the buff stacking plays such a huge role, or that they are being targeted by multiple sources. Another issue is when you trinket the stun, immediately activate your defensive cd, the animation deceives you.

[Svisto]

This really shows your 'level'.

 

I doubt very much whether your age is above your shoe size. Go and play BF3 with an aimbot with your few sad lonely friends.

 

YAY! Another internet P O S! Gotta love em...Anonymity is great!

[GenoveseABN]

op without stelath would get ***** they need to get the jump

 

 

and at the dmg comment from vidoe, bh does that all day

 

op needs stealth

Edited January 17, 2012 by GenoveseABN

[wixxkruppel]

Full pVp gear operatives are ridiculous on anyone not in full PvP gear.

 

Any class in full pvp gear is ridiculous vs anyone not in full pvp gear.

 

A sage would be 100% immortal, and you couldn't even run away from him, no matter what you did, unlike vs. operatives.

Edited January 17, 2012 by wixxkruppel

[BambulaGTS]

Again (like 1000 times):

 

1. First 2 shots deal so much damage that u have no chances to fight back alone, even if u have trinketed stun.

 

2. If trinket is on cooldown u have no chances at all to fight back alone.

 

3. Dots do nothing since:

 

a) on 24 lvl they get avoidance training ability that makes evasion remove all hostile removable effects.

 

b) on 32 lvl they have shield probe ability that absorbs dot damage.

 

c) on 24 lvl they get toxin scan ability that removes 2 negative tech or physical effects.

 

4. Advice to trinket and stun them is useless since they will trinket too and you are again on uneven ground.

 

5. Advice to kite them is useless for most classes since u need a slow (sorc or war) but they have ranged slow too and u need to be genius strafer to have them in line of sight to use ur own abilities and do not show ur back since when u are turned to them with ur back - u r dead.

 

6. Suggestion about when they out of stealth they can't do damage is not accurate. They surely can, especially from the back. To be accurate one need to say they can't do same tons of damage as from stealth, but it is sufficient.

 

7. The control from the first jump does not fill ur resolve bar on max, and resolve starts to fade even when knockdown animation is not over. Tooltip says it is 3 sec, but animation of getting up lasts much longer, so if u trinket is on cooldown it is auto GG.

Edited January 17, 2012 by BambulaGTS

[carbocat]

Again (like 1000 times):

 

1. First 2 shots deal so much damage that u have no chances to fight back alone, even if u have trinketed stun.

 

2. If trinket is on cooldown u have no chances at all to fight back alone.

 

3. Dots do nothing since:

 

a) on 24 lvl they get avoidance training ability that makes evasion remove all hostile removable effects.

 

b) on 32 lvl they have shield probe ability that absorbs dot damage.

 

c) on 24 lvl they get toxin scan ability that removes 2 negative tech or physical effects.

 

4. Advice to trinket and stun them is useless since they will trinket too and you are again on uneven ground.

 

5. Advice to kite them is useless for most classes since u need a slow (sorc or war) but they have ranged slow too and u need to be genius strafer to have them in line of sight to use ur own abilities and do not show ur back since when u are turned to them with ur back - u r dead.

 

6. Suggestion about when they out of stealth they can't do damage is not accurate. They surely can, especially from the back. To be accurate one need to say they can't do same tons of damage as from stealth, but it is sufficient.

 

7. The control from the first jump does not fill ur resolve bar on max, and resolve starts to fade even when knockdown animation is not over. Tooltip says it is 3 sec, but animation of getting up lasts much longer, so if u trinket is on cooldown it is auto GG.

 

all i heard was: cry cry cry, whine whine whine

[BambulaGTS]

all i heard was: cry cry cry, whine whine whine

 

No prob bro.

 

I will cry and whine until nerf, then u will cry or start new character to 50.

 

Personally I'm fine with both variants.

[RobNightfall]

Also, you don't have to hop down immediately. You can actually run around the sides and drop down later. Try this next time someone decides to be an *** and single you out.

[sumfizz]

NOTHING is as bad as Rift. That is hands down the worst mmo I have ever experienced when it comes to pvp.

 

Eventually Bioware will get their update right and get rid of those 50 feebs so the rest of us can enjoy the warzones again.

[Andreasus]

Paper is fine, nerf rock. -Scissors.

 

I guess this fits

[Lushbits]

 

1. First 2 shots deal so much damage that u have no chances to fight back alone, even if u have trinketed stun.

 

2. If trinket is on cooldown u have no chances at all to fight back alone.

 

Stop running around alone then?

 

To be honest - sure Ops do a lot of burst coming out of stealth. But that's kinda what they are good for? Remove that and what would they bring to the table? They are good at taking out solo players, who wander away from the "pack".

 

I think there are just too many under geared players who had bad experience with chemed-up champion Ops. Stick to your mates and play like a team.

[Sabredance]

Operatives in denial.

[Crowleyz]

Again (like 1000 times):

 

1. First 2 shots deal so much damage that u have no chances to fight back alone, even if u have trinketed stun.

 

2. If trinket is on cooldown u have no chances at all to fight back alone.

 

3. Dots do nothing since:

 

a) on 24 lvl they get avoidance training ability that makes evasion remove all hostile removable effects.

 

b) on 32 lvl they have shield probe ability that absorbs dot damage.

 

c) on 24 lvl they get toxin scan ability that removes 2 negative tech or physical effects.

 

4. Advice to trinket and stun them is useless since they will trinket too and you are again on uneven ground.

 

5. Advice to kite them is useless for most classes since u need a slow (sorc or war) but they have ranged slow too and u need to be genius strafer to have them in line of sight to use ur own abilities and do not show ur back since when u are turned to them with ur back - u r dead.

 

6. Suggestion about when they out of stealth they can't do damage is not accurate. They surely can, especially from the back. To be accurate one need to say they can't do same tons of damage as from stealth, but it is sufficient.

 

7. The control from the first jump does not fill ur resolve bar on max, and resolve starts to fade even when knockdown animation is not over. Tooltip says it is 3 sec, but animation of getting up lasts much longer, so if u trinket is on cooldown it is auto GG.

 

+1 qft

 

And don't be mad at poor carbocat. You can't expect much from someone who says stuff like this:

 

stop come with this random numbers you looser, 9 k in 1 hit isnt possible not for any class

 

Much sadness there

Edited January 17, 2012 by Crowleyz

[BambulaGTS]

Stop running around alone then?

 

To be honest - sure Ops do a lot of burst coming out of stealth. But that's kinda what they are good for? Remove that and what would they bring to the table? They are good at taking out solo players, who wander away from the "pack".

 

I think there are just too many under geared players who had bad experience with chemed-up champion Ops. Stick to your mates and play like a team.

 

I can't.

 

Only if people would die in large groups and respawn in large groups, than may be.

 

BTW don't u think it is working as intended to have 1 spec of 1 adv class 100 % guaranteed win 1 on 1 with majority of other specs/adv classes excluding tanks (which he will not jump anyways) and marader/sentinel (which he will not jump anyways too)?

Edited January 17, 2012 by BambulaGTS

[Lushbits]

I can't.

 

Only if people would die in large groups and respawn in large groups, than may be.

 

BTW don't u think it is working as intended to have 1 spec of 1 adv class 100 % guaranteed win 1 on 1 with majority of other specs/adv classes excluding tanks (which he will not jump anyways) and marader/sentinel (which he will not jump anyways too)?

 

Well, you can always wait a few seconds to have more of your teammates spawn instead of running out like cannon fodder as soon as you spawn.

 

Regarding the guaranteed win 1v1. Well, in a WZ perspective the Operative/Scoundrel have zero utility. It sole purpose is to be the predator that easily dispose of solo enemies. This is where this rage comes from, no one rages on a marauder being able to charge directly in to the endzone in Huttball. It doesn't effect them in person. I can GUARANTEE YOU that a team with 8 concealment operatives would loose in Huttball vs. a team without any Ops - 100 times out of 100. Or do you disagree?

 

As someone said earlier. It's not a requirement that "all classes are equal". You can compare this with a sniper in BF3 for example. Sure, he can one-shot you. Over and over if you keep running down the same street. But if you remove that from a sniper, what use would he be to his team?

 

Well, as someone has mentioned before:

1. Toning down the damage: I would wait for the 50's only bracket and see what that does. I would give it some more time to see the reactions once EVERYONE starts getting their proper PvP gear. I just think it's too early to succumb to the (pardon me) whine just yet. If the issue persists when EVERYONE is in equal gear. Sure, maybe a tad toning down.

2. Toning down the damage would require some sort of WZ-utility. Sprint perhaps? As in sprint from WoW. Just a random suggestion.

3. Healing would probably need a tone-down as well then, since an Ops wouldn't be able to do **** against a healer if you remove too much of their only use.

 

Cheers.

[BambulaGTS]

Do not even start on BF.

 

I played Bad company 2 (vietnam inc) over the roof (really over).

 

Sniper will oneshot u with a head or in close range with noscope/dragshot (but it really takes skill). Given you are not playing some "lolmare" mode.

 

To headshot someone you need to make some simple ballistic calculations (bulletdrop) and victim must stay still (probably another lolsniper).

 

Playing with shotgun is much more easier than sniper rifle, really.

 

As for team of operatives, it may be another team will have difficulties to leave their spawn.

[Blarpped]

With consumables, they do entirely too much burst. By the time you get up (if you get up) you really have no chance unless you get heals&peels immediately. The class has too much going for it IMO.

 

Stealth opener with huge burst and a 3 second stun

Permanently ignore 50% of armor

An AOE disorient

Snare/Immobilize

Vanish and AOE Vanish

Cloak of Shadows on a short CD

Absorb

Interrupts

Defensive dispel

15% speed buff

Heals (really? let's give a stealth/control/obscene burst class heals :derp:)

 

In PVP what are they missing? All they need is a gap closer and a snarebreak to be granted God mode. I see a lot of people say once they're out of stealth they're useless. That is pure BS.

 

Horrible players can perform admirably as an Op/Scoundrel. A good one will make you weep.

[Nuara]

Haha just for fun I searched your post history to see if you really were an operative. And a week ago you were saying you rarely break 6k.

 

I guess you decided to level the soon to be nerfed biochem this week and it made you really good at the game. Nice work, bro.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1215048#post1215048

 

Scroll down.

 

Its true, I got some gear and level'ed Biochem - why wouldnt I, the other tradeskills are useless even if they nerf Biochem (about 5% damage on gear + all the lame *** buff stacking). "Rarely" get 6k crits without gear and biochem, no other class can come even close to that...

 

Im not very good at OP tbh, but who cares, it doesnt require much skills on my part anyways.

[Endusima]

Operatives are the fotm class, everyone and their mother is rolling operative goddamnit.

 

Proof right here: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8784/40031012.jpg

 

I aint using Acid Blade spec cuz it's gay and I aint gay.

[Zherill]

I can't.

 

Only if people would die in large groups and respawn in large groups, than may be.

 

BTW don't u think it is working as intended to have 1 spec of 1 adv class 100 % guaranteed win 1 on 1 with majority of other specs/adv classes excluding tanks (which he will not jump anyways) and marader/sentinel (which he will not jump anyways too)?

 

How to survive a op/scoundrel gank.

Trinket (if up) pop a def cool down. Medpack.(5k heal) WZ medpack.(Oh look you just instantly healed all but the most geared OPS opener as ANY CLASS) Stun. Deeps.

If they are stem stacking you are fukkered, this goes for any class not just us.

If they arn't then you will live if you are not BADLY out geared/leveled.

 

Then there is this.... stealth isn't perfect. If you have a aoe or knockback and you know we are around.... you have a damn good chance of getting us out of stealth. Keep tapping target nearest and when you catch us creeping up use any attack.... *GASP* no opener.

 

From there the op/scoundrel has a choice Vanish if up.... or stun and attempt to deeps from outside stealth. Most of the time this ends REALLY badly for us.... unless you for some ******* reason decide to let me stay behind you.

 

If I can survive though another Scoundrel or OPS opening burst as a scoundrel you really have no excuse other than you arn't doing something right.

 

In full champ gear against evenly geared folks I hit for around 4-5k with my opener.

Stem stacking I hit for around 6-7k on a crit against evenly geared folks.

 

The ONLY thing that makes this deadly without stem stacking is the ability to vanish and double tap the opener. If I do that outside of a 1v1 I am going to die if anyone taps me and keeps me from insta restealthing.

 

Go ahead and cry though. I hope they fix the stem stacking before they make a final decision on how to tweak the scrapper tree. If they don't I'll just blow people up under a waterfall of dots ticking for over 1k damage.