Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Gavin_Darkl]

By your logic if cross server chat/messaging was introduced you would be okay with it since you could technicaly talk to them again. Tools don't create bad communities .... The people that use them do. If the "community" can be destroyed with just one little itty bitty tool than the community was probably worthless to begin with.

 

No my logic is let MMOs be MMOs. Join a guild that fix your game play and time schedule and runs stuff together. Need 1 person for a flashpoint pug that person, if he is kewl add him to your friends list. Ask him to run again some other time. Stop expecting a Tool to do all the work for you. And yes This Tool kills the community. You can say it does not, however when you have 50 people on our friends list that you no longer talk to for running stuff because everyone just uses the tool cause it does the WORK for them. Yes it kills the community. Get out Socialize with people. Stop Expecting a tool to get what you want out of the game. Do it yourself.

[Siphaed]

No my logic is let MMOs be MMOs. Join a guild that fix your game play and time schedule and runs stuff together. Need 1 person for a flashpoint pug that person, if he is kewl add him to your friends list. Ask him to run again some other time. Stop expecting a Tool to do all the work for you. And yes This Tool kills the community. You can say it does not, however when you have 50 people on our friends list that you no longer talk to for running stuff because everyone just uses the tool cause it does the WORK for them. Yes it kills the community. Get out Socialize with people. Stop Expecting a tool to get what you want out of the game. Do it yourself.

 

 

 

I feel the exact same way. As I've previously labeled, we are currently in Generation: IG (Instant Gratification). This generation wants everything handed to them, done for them, everything automated. Wasn't that the cause of the apocalypse that was foreseen in The Matrix and Terminator?

 

This is what we're coming to. A game that play's itself for you. What a great idea!

[Skaara]

No my logic is let MMOs be MMOs. Join a guild that fix your game play and time schedule and runs stuff together. Need 1 person for a flashpoint pug that person, if he is kewl add him to your friends list. Ask him to run again some other time. Stop expecting a Tool to do all the work for you. And yes This Tool kills the community. You can say it does not, however when you have 50 people on our friends list that you no longer talk to for running stuff because everyone just uses the tool cause it does the WORK for them. Yes it kills the community. Get out Socialize with people. Stop Expecting a tool to get what you want out of the game. Do it yourself.

 

I wasn't aware that the only way to play was your way. I'll try to get around and ask you for permission next time I consider a thought to make sure it doesn't break some Gavin Darkl rule. Stop blaming a tool for all your problems and accept it as the proper evolution of mmo gaming.

[Touchbass]

I feel the exact same way. As I've previously labeled, we are currently in Generation: IG (Instant Gratification). This generation wants everything handed to them, done for them, everything automated. Wasn't that the cause of the apocalypse that was foreseen in The Matrix and Terminator?

 

This is what we're coming to. A game that play's itself for you. What a great idea!

 

I love these delusional people, thinking their way is the only way to do something. Even though your trolling, yes people want instant gratification on some servers. They cannot find groups other way so some of us would love a "I WIN" button

[Dyvid]

Well just tried for 30mins to make a group for FP. 150 ppl in the fleet and we couldn't find one healer in the lot. We need a dungeon finder tool. Stop living in denial and join the 21st century. Fixing the LFG needs to be BW's top proirity. Edited January 21, 2012 by Dyvid

[DarthKhaos]

Yes it does unfortunately. We've been complaining about the LFD tools in this game for quiet some time saying they weren't going to work. Game gets released, and boom it doesn't work as intended as we predicted. At what point do we call it a failure? When it's offically scraped? Wasn't WoW's mirrored tool a failure as well? I know it's tempting to white-knight the issue and go "educate the playerbase on the tool, expand it's features, etc", it just don't work as it's been demonstrated prior and is showcasing now.

 

What specifically do you have against that article, I haven't read it yet but I'm curious to why you find it invalid.

I haven't even looked at it. It's a user edited wiki. If I want I can go in and edit it to say ANYTHING I WANT IT TO SAY.

[Touchbass]

I haven't even looked at it. It's a user edited wiki. If I want I can go in and edit it to say ANYTHING I WANT IT TO SAY.

 

So your completely ignoring it based on a preceived notion that whatever you read on there will be innocorrect unless it aggrees wit you. You're an established poster on this topic and you think being lazy is in any way shape or form going to give yourself any creditability? Read the article, see what parts you disagree with, and come back to us and lets discuss it. Feel free to link any third party articles at all slamming the dungeon finder if you want in return.

 

p.s. Unless i'm mistaken you can't change the article in the ways you are saying you can. If i am mistaken I'd like you insert something ludicrous in the article somewhere to prove ... actually what are you trying to prove? He was proposing a video game related article, what were you expecting a peer reviewed journal on the subject of estoric video game group mechanic?

Edited January 21, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

No my logic is let MMOs be MMOs. Join a guild that fix your game play and time schedule and runs stuff together. Need 1 person for a flashpoint pug that person, if he is kewl add him to your friends list. Ask him to run again some other time. Stop expecting a Tool to do all the work for you. And yes This Tool kills the community. You can say it does not, however when you have 50 people on our friends list that you no longer talk to for running stuff because everyone just uses the tool cause it does the WORK for them. Yes it kills the community. Get out Socialize with people. Stop Expecting a tool to get what you want out of the game. Do it yourself.

 

 

What if you can't do this? The problem is you people don't realize that working people have other obligations then a video game. Telling them to leave if they can't adjust is one of the dumbest solutions you can think of. WoW owes it massive success to positive decisions like the LFD + LFR. All I know is there was a lot of less self entitled whiney girls on the forums after the LFD came around, great move for the community.

[Touchbass]

This is probably one of the bigger threads and Bioware moves it to the suggestion area, way to state your attentions about LFD Bioware.

[ShardTosk]

Yep, the people who pay attention make a mental note not to invite infamously bad players.

No they don't. My boyfriend is well known on my server for long tirades against and trolling/tormenting non-RPers. If you piss him off he WILL wipe the group and ninja over and over until he gets his way or someone kicks him.

Guess what? He has never had a problem getting into a group. That's the side effect of popular games, there's enough players for you to hide in plain sight.

[BlueSkittles]

This is probably one of the bigger threads and Bioware moves it to the suggestion area, way to state your attentions about LFD Bioware.

 

Did not even notice it had been moved as my link brought me directly here. Funny. At least they didn't close this thread out, but I do wonder if it will get the same attention in the boondock Suggestion board. We shall double our efforts.

[Touchbass]

No they don't. My boyfriend is well known on my server for long tirades against and trolling/tormenting non-RPers. If you piss him off he WILL wipe the group and ninja over and over until he gets his way or someone kicks him.

Guess what? He has never had a problem getting into a group. That's the side effect of popular games, there's enough players for you to hide in plain sight.

 

Honestly for dungeons I could care less about reputation. People put too much focus on it as an archaic institution. The only screening that exists is guilds that bar you from getting in.

[LordRaevin]

I, like many others, would love to see this ingame as long as it's not cross realm. It's the cross realm aspect that destroyed the social aspect in World of Warcraft, let's not allow that to happen to this game.

 

Adding a flashpoint group finder is a great way to meet new people.

[Touchbass]

I, like many others, would love to see this ingame as long as it's not cross realm. It's the cross realm aspect that destroyed the social aspect in World of Warcraft, let's not allow that to happen to this game.

 

Adding a flashpoint group finder is a great way to meet new people.

 

Here is some selective readings of my /rant from page 6 of this thread that got reposted by another gentleman about the LFD destruction topic

 

1)The LFD destroys communities rant

 

This is the biggest and loudest argument and deservers the most attention, we need to think about what the perspective is of the person who is advocating this and what are his intentions. His premise is very understandable, why on earth would you want anything you cherished to be besieged? The players from this perspective are happy with their current gaming experiences and view anything dramatically changing as threatening their positive experiences. They may claim they are community individuals, but they aren’t in fact they really only looking out for their own interests and have no regard for the majority of the player base.

 

2)The LFD killed WoW (or severely crippled it)

 

This has to be the most erroneous statement I’ve heard in the debate and I have to applaud who came up with that conjecture for how much is has swamped the MMORPG community. First off, how would you analyze this statement for any shred of truth? I’m not going to take your anecdotal evidence as fact, because quite frankly the LFD tool brought me back to the game and I know countless others who came back to the game because of it. In fact, the only evidence we can look at that is considered fair is how many subscriptions came back with the addition of the LFG feature versus who left the game at the same time. I wonder who’s going to come out on top of that one

 

3) The majority of these people opposing the LFD are hypocrites

 

The only thing that changed was that we could no longer force people to communicate with others when they didn’t wish it or it wasn’t convenient. If you had a laundry list of friend’s pre-LFD to always do groups with, you should have seen absolutely no change at all in your gameplay experience. What could have possibly changed? You would log on, talk to your guildies and friends and come up with a time to run dungeons as you always did prior. If you were unable to facilitate a group as it sometimes can happen, you’d ask if anyone knew anyone or you simply just ask in trade. When someone refers to bad experiences with the LFD tool, I ask myself how they found themselves interacting with the tool in the first place. You clearly couldn’t find anybody to group with so instead of sitting around in Orgimmar spamming for groups you realized what the rest of us realized years ago that it that wasn’t fun. You then took the approach of joining a queue intended for a different gaming experience and got upset when it wasn’t to your liking. I can’t be the only one who is baffled by this, can I?

 

5) Players have diminished in quality since the LFD for reason X,Y, and Z

 

No, what has happened is people are of different skill backgrounds and you’ve just never realized just how many of them take up your player base who keeps your game running. This isn’t the days of yore when everyone who plays strongly understands the genre, blizzard has opened up the market for different crowds and it’s their playing experience too. Think of it from the other side of the coin, how do you think it is for us more casual player base to deal with you people on a more regular basis? Don’t got 100% optimized gear and talent spec for an encounter that don’t require it, get ready to get instructed on the values of life and potentially booted. Ask to a do all the bosses to a geared tank, better believe that’s a vote kick.

 

6) The Z in “X,Y, and Z” is for laZy

 

One concern is that queue based systems will make people lazy and lethargically spend their time throughout the game world. We’re living in the country that works one of the most hours per person in the world and has severe time poverty and you’re confused why people are trying to take shortcuts? You’d have to be insane or unemployed not to take every time related advantage that doesn’t spoil your own experience in a game that soaks them up like nothing. Being lazy has no discrimination for which it strikes, whether it’s elites afking in bg’s for High War Lord titles or Johnny McNoob /afking in the raid finder

 

7) People are ******es in the LFD

 

This is the only argument I particularly agree with, it is true that anonymity breeds people to make actions that may have not made in a different situation. Blizzard has given us a tool to deal with it; it’s called the vote kick. If you DO NOT abuse the vote kick, it is available almost every time you’ll ever need it. The majority of incidents that I’ve personally witnessed have been people taking someone’s words to seriously or someone “ninjaing” something. Now, for the latter it’s impossible to ninja in this game, I need you to understand that. “Ninjaing” for the sake of this argument is taking something that didn’t belong to you, entering into a rolling chance with someone when both parties legitimately want an item is not stealing. If someone has the same armour class or item proficiency, then casually speak to them in public or private to get their intentions, you’d be shocked in how people are civil once you make that communication leap and instead of assuming. For the attitude part, that is everyone’s job to try and keep a cool head. If you see people fighting over something in game, first off don’t make it worse by saying who’s right and who’s wrong. Secondly try and defuse the situation, I’ve been able to do this a few times or at least get to the point where everyone agrees it’s best to move on but be silent. Lastly, if else fails, Blizzard has given us the vote kick for these types of measures, use accordingly though or be warned it may not be there when you require it.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Touchbass

[Maerdyn]

What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game.

 

another MMO's? Name five. Except WoW.

[DarthKhaos]

So your completely ignoring it based on a preceived notion that whatever you read on there will be innocorrect unless it aggrees wit you. You're an established poster on this topic and you think being lazy is in any way shape or form going to give yourself any creditability? Read the article, see what parts you disagree with, and come back to us and lets discuss it. Feel free to link any third party articles at all slamming the dungeon finder if you want in return.

 

p.s. Unless i'm mistaken you can't change the article in the ways you are saying you can. If i am mistaken I'd like you insert something ludicrous in the article somewhere to prove ... actually what are you trying to prove? He was proposing a video game related article, what were you expecting a peer reviewed journal on the subject of estoric video game group mechanic?

No. It could completely agree with what I say but that still does not make it proof. I am not going to use anything that anyone can edit and call it my proof. If it was a link from blizzard then I'd gladly acknowledge it even if it does not validate my point.

 

I am not even arguing if it has/has not been tried before. And if you read what I am saying at this stage a cross server fully automated system is not needed. By the time Blizzard attempted to use any kind of LFG tool they were well over 6 million subscribers across many many many servers.

[Gealbhan]

Not only a no but Hell No. LFG is a trolls dreamboat. no accountability for being a douchebag in a flashpoint? no tnx. If you're a jerk you deserve to be black listed on your server.

[BlueSkittles]

I am now ignoring other people who don't want to look at sites that show facts.

 

Found out why I thought everyone loved the original Dungeon Finder when it was first released in WoW. Here's a link to an article on a fan site I used to visit daily in my WoW playing heyday. And looking at the comments show how excited people are to play with the new Dungeon Finder, as was I (and still would be if SWTOR didn't kill WoW in every other way).

http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/12/08/patch-3-3-the-dungeon-finder-guide/

 

And out of the mouths of babes (or in this case the competition). Just switch out the word Raid for Operation/Flashpoint.

 

"Q.Who is Raid Finder for?

A. Raid Finder is primarily intended for players who don’t already raid consistently. These are players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content. These players may want to experience World of Warcraft’s raid content and storyline without being able to commit to the additional time investment of a raiding guild. The Raid Finder is also a great way to quickly and easily gear up alternate characters without having to worry about raid lockouts."

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4023602

 

(But then again, I'm lazy/anti-social/hate-people/ninja/whatever-haters-gonna-hate)

[funnygerp]

Here are some quick scenarios in which a LFD tool would be helpful.

 

1. A brother and sister share computer time, so the sister cannot spend too long looking for a group.

2. A father puts his children to bed an want to play a couple hours, but it happens to be on a Tuesday night and nobody is on his server.

3. A shy person or someone with some social problems is afraid to ask many people for a game, including spamming general chat.

4. A person works nights and can't find someone to run flashpoints with.

 

By the logic of some people here, these people are just lazy if they want a LFD tool and they should instead do this or that. The problem, however, is that low population (Republic side) and just plain bad luck can make finding a game take way too long. Unlike the people on this forum who claim to never wait longer than a few minutes to find a game, why dont' you understand that this is not always the case and that different factors can hinder creating groups. I don't know about you all but I want to actually have fun with this game and not take an hour spamming general chat or just pvping because I can't find anybody on.

 

I constantly ask people to do hard modes but so far I have only done one. This is because I am in a Republic server who has max 85ish people on the fleet on a Saturday night. I guess I should be punished, however, and not allowed to enjoy endgame content.

Edited January 21, 2012 by funnygerp

[BlueSkittles]

Not only a no but Hell No. LFG is a trolls dreamboat. no accountability for being a douchebag in a flashpoint? no tnx. If you're a jerk you deserve to be black listed on your server.

 

Yeah it's called "Put them on your Ignore list" and if Bioware does their job right you will never have to run a Flashpoint/Operation with them again. Then tell all your friends to do the same and voila! It's a bloody miracle what the game can do for you.

[Touchbass]

Not only a no but Hell No. LFG is a trolls dreamboat. no accountability for being a douchebag in a flashpoint? no tnx. If you're a jerk you deserve to be black listed on your server.

 

You really can't get blacklisted anymore in a casual dungeon environment, you've have to **** up really big to get blacklisted, and even that is pushing it. Also, if you did manage to do that, just delete and re-roll, boom your back to 50 in 2 weeks, big deal.

 

Also, ignore and votekick features are in place.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Touchbass

[Touchbass]

No. It could completely agree with what I say but that still does not make it proof. I am not going to use anything that anyone can edit and call it my proof. If it was a link from blizzard then I'd gladly acknowledge it even if it does not validate my point.

 

I am not even arguing if it has/has not been tried before. And if you read what I am saying at this stage a cross server fully automated system is not needed. By the time Blizzard attempted to use any kind of LFG tool they were well over 6 million subscribers across many many many servers.

 

I still think you should read it at least, it's important to know what the other side is thinking but lets drop that as we shouldn't be splitting hairs on that. In regards to it being needed, SWTOR as an entirity doesn't need it right this second, so yes you are correct. There are certain pockets however that need it at the moment desperately though, I can't see a working solution for those pockets unless it's a X-LFD feature.

 

My main concern with posting is to create awareness so that by the time there is a communal consenus that a X-LFD is required that Bioware can be ready to pull the trigger on something. Wow personally came out with theres a bit late, a year or two prior would of done a lot more wonders for the game I think.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Touchbass

[AeonWeapon]

Aeon approves this message.

 

I have limited time to play and I really hate spending a half hour or more trying to find people who happen to want to do the same flashpoint as me.

 

Even if I go on general and list 5 FPs I would like to do, it seems it's hard to find.

 

And as far as community... who are you guys kidding? People in this game are always going gogogogo, most don't even care about the social features, don't want to share dialogue for social points, when they do team with you and you finish your heroic or whatever, they jsut go "k thx bye" *left team* and dont' even bother turning the mission in together and sharing the dialogue. Most of them probably spacebar through it anyway.

Edited January 21, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[Toadbat]

...And as far as community... who are you guys kidding? People in this game are always going gogogogo, most don't even care about the social features, don't want to share dialogue for social points, when they do team with you and you finish your heroic or whatever, they jsut go "k thx bye" *left team* and dont' even bother turning the mission in together and sharing the dialogue. Most of them probably spacebar through it anyway.

 

The above bolded should be prefaced with "In my experience".

 

All of your statements are untrue in my experience.

 

The people I group with sometimes are "Hey, I am just doing this for the [insert social;ds/ls;loot;etc.]. But, they never rush me, they chime in on comments from players new to the flashpoint and provide helpful feedback. Rarely, in my experience, does anyone not participate in the conversation. The pugs I join, always (with rare exception) break up after turning in the quest, often involving friend requests. I know some people, who have done a certain flashpoint more than a few times, spacebar through content, but still make choices. They just know the content, and if everyone does that, the conversations do go quicker. I think that part of the system is fine.

 

So, apparently, ymmv on how strong the community is on your server, during the times you are able to or choose to play.

 

-Toadbat

[AeonWeapon]

The above bolded should be prefaced with "In my experience".

 

All of your statements are untrue in my experience.

 

The people I group with sometimes are "Hey, I am just doing this for the [insert social;ds/ls;loot;etc.]. But, they never rush me, they chime in on comments from players new to the flashpoint and provide helpful feedback. Rarely, in my experience, does anyone not participate in the conversation. The pugs I join, always (with rare exception) break up after turning in the quest, often involving friend requests. I know some people, who have done a certain flashpoint more than a few times, spacebar through content, but still make choices. They just know the content, and if everyone does that, the conversations do go quicker. I think that part of the system is fine.

 

So, apparently, ymmv on how strong the community is on your server, during the times you are able to or choose to play.

 

-Toadbat

I would love to have an experience like that, I'm pretty sociable and have alot of social experience in finding teams in other games... in this game, not happening. Maybe you found a magical server.