Enginer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would be ALL for a DF, it gives players just another option of things to do while leveling or at end game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In fact the LFD tool did a lot to curb the bad behavior, since people weren't hesitant to kick a bad seed anymore. Haha now I know you're trolling. You have no idea how many times where I have experienced a player ninja rolling then leaving, getting the loot they wanted then leaving or not getting the loot they wanted then leaving. People would want to vote kick the best player cause they were showing them up. I even saw one guy put himself on autofollow the healer for the run. (Although once I autofollowed the tank as my disc priest and came in 2nd in dps while healing. Damn I was OP like that.) I can cite more but people kept acting like idiots BECAUSE they came from another server and probably would never see these people ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkittles Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) What you describe is a more refined version of the current "/who" system which I am all for. This is what I've been talking about. What I was trying to get through to people about the "/who" system is that even if it is crude using it would allow you to not have to stand in fleet repeating msg in General Chat over and over and you can GO do something. Problem is people refuse to adapt and try a different (even though it's rough around the edges) system. Because it is not a fully automated system that finds the people for you they revert back to the "tried and true" method of asking in General. If server population is to low, upgrade the hardware on one server and merge some. In addition to the OP's suggestion: Keep it server only. I have seen people, even a friend of mine being a real ***hat when grouping with people via cross server group finders. Because they don't give a flying when they play with people that they don't run into every day on their own server. Those who behave that way on their own servers quickly get blacklisted by the community. Just a refresher, below is a link to the history of the LFD tool in World of Warcraft and how at each stage it failed completely until the ridiculously successful modern LFD tool which they haven't gotten rid of and have only improved upon since it's introduction in 2009. Too bad it was so successful, I know that Bioware doesn't want their game to be as successful as WoW. Nope. And merging servers is a GREAT idea to show everyone your game is failing and is about to die. http://www.wowwiki.com/Dungeon_Finder#History If people don't use a tool that means the TOOL is a failure, not the people. So can we please skip the intermediary steps and just get us to a decent tool that EVERYONE can use and will help EVERYONE play the content that is already there. Edit: And here's the wowpedia link because I forgot some people didn't like wowwiki: http://www.wowpedia.org/Looking_for_group#History Edited January 20, 2012 by BlueSkittles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Thing is, #2 is a problem that is better solved by other means and #5 is a personal problem that has zero to do with the game. I think it would be fair to say they won't be merging servers anytime soon, well, i can't say that for certain but it's my best guess on the matter. I don't think it's quiet fair to say 5 is a personal problem, if new Western MMO's opened up to a more casual market, why then is it fair to make life difficult for them? Like Devlan, I'd be very happy with merged servers for low population and an internal automated tool or vastly superior current interface. Only issue that leaves out is population imbalance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I would be ALL for a DF, it gives players just another option of things to do while leveling or at end game! This is one the issues no one realizes is really important. As soon as this game matures, it's going to become next to impossible to find leveling content on some servers, if not all of them. This in turn will do nothing but turn off new players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 http://www.wowwiki.com/Dungeon_Finder#History Edit: And here's the wowpedia link because I forgot some people didn't like wowwiki: http://www.wowpedia.org/Looking_for_group#History Even I haven't seen that yet, I'll check that out at work tonight. Thanks Blue for linking that, it's important to educate the player base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnygerp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I am actually considering unsubscribing because I can never find people for endgame pve. I'm still on winter break so I go on throughout the day and night, but I still cannot get enough people. I am also a Republic player, so there aren't that many people around. I just don't understand, therefore, why people would be against a cross-server lfg patch. The arguments against this that I hear are: 1. It ruins communities: So, interacting with people from other servers ruins your own server? Would you rather have people spamming chat? I feel like only self-righteous "hardcore" players use this argument because they already have large guilds and can run flash points all day. They just want to put down people who have a hard time getting a group because it makes them feel superior. God forbid someone is on at off-peak hours or is just, in general, a shy person and can't make a group. They should be punished. 2. You just want to be lazy: This is such a stupid argument. So I should just spam general chat? Do you know how many hours I have spent saying "any lvl 50s looking for flash point?" I am just so saddened that people are against something that will make pve easier for more people and allow them to get more playing time in. As a result, there will be incentive to level up, because you know that you can always get a game going, and there will be more lvl 50s. Also, for the people that work graveyard shifts or who take turns on the computer with their siblings, they have to suffer because it is hard for them to find a game? I hope these "hardcore" people get over themselves and realize that a cross-server lfg maker will help people better enjoy a game. Regardless of your stance on the issue, you must realize that you don't have to use this feature and that it is very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbral Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Haha now I know you're trolling. You have no idea how many times where I have experienced a player ninja rolling then leaving, getting the loot they wanted then leaving or not getting the loot they wanted then leaving. People would want to vote kick the best player cause they were showing them up. I even saw one guy put himself on autofollow the healer for the run. (Although once I autofollowed the tank as my disc priest and came in 2nd in dps while healing. Damn I was OP like that.) I can cite more but people kept acting like idiots BECAUSE they came from another server and probably would never see these people ever again.Again, you're stating myths, not facts. Not only that, but the worst behavior in WoW was in the beginning of the game, well before any lfg or lfd tools were implemented. As we're seeing in SWTOR. People are acting like ***** in Heroics and FPs because they know that nobody is going to do anything about it given the extremely long waits to get groups together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnygerp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Again, you're stating myths, not facts. Not only that, but the worst behavior in WoW was in the beginning of the game, well before any lfg or lfd tools were implemented. As we're seeing in SWTOR. People are acting like ***** in Heroics and FPs because they know that nobody is going to do anything about it given the extremely long waits to get groups together. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I am actually considering unsubscribing because I can never find people for endgame pve. I'm still on winter break so I go on throughout the day and night, but I still cannot get enough people. I am also a Republic player, so there aren't that many people around. I just don't understand, therefore, why people would be against a cross-server lfg patch. The arguments against this that I hear are: 1. It ruins communities: So, interacting with people from other servers ruins your own server? Would you rather have people spamming chat? I feel like only self-righteous "hardcore" players use this argument because they already have large guilds and can run flash points all day. They just want to put down people who have a hard time getting a group because it makes them feel superior. God forbid someone is on at off-peak hours or is just, in general, a shy person and can't make a group. They should be punished. 2. You just want to be lazy: This is such a stupid argument. So I should just spam general chat? Do you know how many hours I have spent saying "any lvl 50s looking for flash point?" I am just so saddened that people are against something that will make pve easier for more people and allow them to get more playing time in. As a result, there will be incentive to level up, because you know that you can always get a game going, and there will be more lvl 50s. Also, for the people that work graveyard shifts or who take turns on the computer with their siblings, they have to suffer because it is hard for them to find a game? I hope these "hardcore" people get over themselves and realize that a cross-server lfg maker will help people better enjoy a game. Regardless of your stance on the issue, you must realize that you don't have to use this feature and that it is very helpful. Really good post Funnygrp, really cuts to the issues at hand. A lack of a strong cross server tool just hurts the majority of games around. If you get an opportunity, I made a rather large post on page 6 of this thread that highlights a lot of what you were talking about. Edited January 21, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkittles Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "We're also going to be listening to the community, and seeing what they want to see in the game. We always are listening to the community. You are the people who decide what kind of changes we need to make to the game. This game is for you guys." Quote from James Ohlen at the 1:45 mark. http://www.youtube.com/user/swtheoldrepublic#p/u/1/3-TChrg5foo I understand his statement is pretty much "party line" for most MMO's but it instills in me a sense of hope. This is why I and many others are passionate on the topic of LFD/LFG and why I want to be here everyday putting in my two cents in order to give the developers the information they need to prioritize this issue as a top issue. And to implement a system that, hopefully, won't immediately fail again once implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGalucard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 All i know is that im a tank and ive given up on playing it and leveling alts as an alternative. I'm sick of spamming general chat for a group for hours to get a full group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Just a refresher, below is a link to the history of the LFD tool in World of Warcraft and how at each stage it failed completely until the ridiculously successful modern LFD tool which they haven't gotten rid of and have only improved upon since it's introduction in 2009. Too bad it was so successful, I know that Bioware doesn't want their game to be as successful as WoW. Nope. And merging servers is a GREAT idea to show everyone your game is failing and is about to die. http://www.wowwiki.com/Dungeon_Finder#History If people don't use a tool that means the TOOL is a failure, not the people. So can we please skip the intermediary steps and just get us to a decent tool that EVERYONE can use and will help EVERYONE play the content that is already there. Edit: And here's the wowpedia link because I forgot some people didn't like wowwiki: http://www.wowpedia.org/Looking_for_group#History If all you got as proof is a user editable page then that's not proof. You know I can go in and change that data if I wanted to say anything? An unused tool doesn't mean it's a failure. Most of the time it is because people are just reluctant to change. Example Sony's MiniDisk was superior to CD's but never caught on. Again, you're stating myths, not facts. Not only that, but the worst behavior in WoW was in the beginning of the game, well before any lfg or lfd tools were implemented. As we're seeing in SWTOR. People are acting like ***** in Heroics and FPs because they know that nobody is going to do anything about it given the extremely long waits to get groups together. I'm telling you I personally experienced those things and you're calling it a myth. But it comes down to what you want to believe. Moving on. Edited January 21, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJSY Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Nobody forces you to use the tool if it's in the game. But then maybe you'll see how low pop servers/factions have it and then whine as much as we do, afterall we just want to play the game without waiting, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If all you got as proof is a user editable page then that's not proof. You know I can go in and change that data if I wanted to say anything? An unused tool doesn't mean it's a failure. Most of the time it is because people are just reluctant to change. Example Sony's MiniDisk was superior to CD's but never caught on. Yes it does unfortunately. We've been complaining about the LFD tools in this game for quiet some time saying they weren't going to work. Game gets released, and boom it doesn't work as intended as we predicted. At what point do we call it a failure? When it's offically scraped? Wasn't WoW's mirrored tool a failure as well? I know it's tempting to white-knight the issue and go "educate the playerbase on the tool, expand it's features, etc", it just don't work as it's been demonstrated prior and is showcasing now. What specifically do you have against that article, I haven't read it yet but I'm curious to why you find it invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Besides Khaos, even if we can find an revamped tool. That still doesn't solve the problem of leveling instances when this game matures, faction imbalance, odd hour players and people on low pop servers. Your solution basically gives them the middle finger because you have yours and they can't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskyJax Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That lfg tool is awful. Really says something when the majority of players aren't using it. Hell, if you haven't played a lot of mmos I doubt some are even aware of it. Is it even mentioned in the tutorials? I found it quickly but then again you and I aren't new to mmos. Even Bw basically implied it needs to be revamped and frankly I agree. Given some of the people playing MMO's i can actually believe that there are a great number of people that don't use it because 1) they don't know its there 2) Can't be bothered to ask anyone. One day i was waiting to do BT had my box checked and when i went to see if anyone else was looking i found no one. Of course there were 3-4 people standing around me occasionally spamming general for invites and they were getting occasional replies... from people who were also looking ... This continued for quite sometime. The LFG tool is primitive but usable.. some players however are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Given some of the people playing MMO's i can actually believe that there are a great number of people that don't use it because 1) they don't know its there 2) Can't be bothered to ask anyone. One day i was waiting to do BT had my box checked and when i went to see if anyone else was looking i found no one. Of course there were 3-4 people standing around me occasionally spamming general for invites and they were getting occasional replies... from people who were also looking ... This continued for quite sometime. The LFG tool is primitive but usable.. some players however are not. To a bunch of newer players the tool isn't obvious to use, especially if you don't understand the trinity. Instead of being condescending towards them why don't you use your experience for something more constructive like explaining it to them. Also, the reason why the LFD tool isn't working it not because there there is a hidden majority of players across all realms who don't understand it intricacies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funnygerp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So apparently the devs won't let me make my own topic on it, shame really. My post could cut to the chase so quickly for a lot of people Oh well! On a fun note, I was having a discussion with someone in another thread about people being lazy. He vehemently believes everyone who wants a LFD is just lazy, when explained to him how is spending an 1 hour on a republic ghost town lazy he told me i'm not doing it right. Always changing their arguments, never willing to listen. The sad part is they're just shooting themselves in the foot, they need our business to make this game enjoyable for them one way or another. This is very true. I can't stand people calling others lazy because they refuse to spam chat, whisper to all their friends, or log in at another time. I just don't understand why people are against something that will help people enjoy this game and cut down on waiting. I really think that the "hardcore" people don't want others to do well. The "hardcore" spend hours on this game and a LFD tool would enable people who play for less hours to do well also. People are just selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This is very true. I can't stand people calling others lazy because they refuse to spam chat, whisper to all their friends, or log in at another time. I just don't understand why people are against something that will help people enjoy this game and cut down on waiting. I really think that the "hardcore" people don't want others to do well. The "hardcore" spend hours on this game and a LFD tool would enable people who play for less hours to do well also. People are just selfish. The way I look at is the people who have been blessed with a good server/faction and spend their time playing in 4-5 chunks on a semi regular basis just want to keep the status quo. It's theorized LFD will hurt servers, they're just scared of that notion. Personally I haven't seen any evidence that i'll do any real damage and even if there are repercussions I can't see them not being out weighted by the pro's of adding a LFD. Yeah, people are starting to draw lines in the sand now by refusing to participate in an archaic system - hilarious thing is their passive protest is considered lazy. If I login to play for a few hours, I don't want to spend 30 minutes actively looking for a group. I have better things to do with my time while leveling. People really need to stop telling other people how they should spend their time, this isn't Iran/China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 LFD not needed. Improved LFG tool would be nice. /thread Move along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 LFD not needed. Improved LFG tool would be nice. /thread Move along Those people who play on low population servers/factions and play at bad hours don't deserve to enjoy the game, interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If forming a group is "work" I would question what you call work and/or your choice of game genre. LFG is an opposite of what a MMORPG is and should be. This I agree with. a LFD tool that auto creates a group is the same as a Mutliplayer game were you just join a server a person put up clear and never talk to them again. This does not created a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaara Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This I agree with. a LFD tool that auto creates a group is the same as a Mutliplayer game were you just join a server a person put up clear and never talk to them again. This does not created a community. By your logic if cross server chat/messaging was introduced you would be okay with it since you could technicaly talk to them again. Tools don't create bad communities .... The people that use them do. If the "community" can be destroyed with just one little itty bitty tool than the community was probably worthless to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharik Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 not to mention, if people like the "doing dailies till the queue pops" gameplay, why didn't they stay in wow? YEAH. I much prefer the "doing dailies till I can stop spamming LFG" gameplay IT IS INNOVATIVE AND REVOLUTIONARY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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