Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[Touchbass]

Thanks for mentioning that Aeon, before the LFD days in WoW if you wanted to run an instance you had to have a certain gear level that wasn't really that casual friendly to obtain and essentialy had you outgearing the instance. "LFM for College education, most have diploma or no invite". ***? Catch 22 much Edited January 23, 2012 by Touchbass

[tiennen]

I am in full support of a Dungeon Finder.

 

 

really, ANYTHING would be better than what we have now. I'm to the point where I don't even care if its cross-server.

[Touchbass]

I am in full support of a Dungeon Finder.

 

 

really, ANYTHING would be better than what we have now. I'm to the point where I don't even care if its cross-server.

 

More and more people are feeling this way every day. Thank you for voicing your opinion Tiennen.

[Neiloch]

I think DarthKhaos is just trying to improve the current situation which is understandable. Even if everyone used the current LFG tool I doubt there would be much improvement, but at least it would be something. Even a default 'global' channel would help some. Still i don't think even both of these together would alleviate most of it.

 

The fact is the very existence of a LFD tool, especially in one of the biggest MMO's in history was literally a 'game changer' and I am not a fan of WoW. It was such a huge leap that anything less is simply sub-par. Before that having less was acceptable only because that was the best there was at the time, not because it was actually good.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

I think DarthKhaos is just trying to improve the current situation which is understandable. Even if everyone used the current LFG tool I doubt there would be much improvement, but at least it would be something. Even a default 'global' channel would help some. Still i don't think even both of these together would alleviate most of it.

 

The fact is the very existence of a LFD tool, especially in one of the biggest MMO's in history was literally a 'game changer' and I am not a fan of WoW. It was such a huge leap that anything less is simply sub-par. Before that having less was acceptable only because that was the best there was at the time, not because it was actually good.

 

Prior to the X-LFD it was just understood that you couldn't find a group around 2am+ for any group, most the tanks weren't online and if they were online they were already in a group to begin with. The X-LFD opened our eyes to how stupid that system was of not allowing access and a lot of people don't want to go back.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Touchbass

[DarthKhaos]

Yes we know about the existing tool, and it's not good enough, still takes an hour to find all the right classes to get a proper team together, when you need tank, healer and 2 DPS. The fact is we're very limited...

 

We're limited to the population of one server

We're limited to who happens to be online at the moment

We're limited to who happens to be looking to do one of the same FPs you want to do at the moment

And we're limited by the fact that we can only communicate to people in one zone.

 

Average on the fleet I find is usually 60-70 people, maybe 20 of them are LFG, maybe 1 or 2 are looking for the same FP, but are they the roles your team needs? If not you have to keep shouting until one of each role shows up...

 

Ok I teamed with two, but one got tired of waiting and left the team, great... the other guy sees him leave and he leaves too, perfect, teamed with no one again...

 

People need to stop preaching, you know this is the reality of the situation. WE ALL KNOW THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING!

I highlighted part of your post. First regardless of what type of system you can't really expect to party with someone offline do you? Same thing with the next part. If someone isn't looking for a group no system you put in place is going to suddenly automatically make them look for group. (Well APB does and it is annoying)

You are completely wrong with you can only communicate with people in one zone. Please read the guide completely or even use the tool to see that THAT is so wrong it is not funny.

 

The last part highlighted totally IS my point. People are not using it. Some because they believe it to be inferior, some because they just don't know about it, others because they refuse to use something different. The more people using the system the better it will work for the community.

 

THAT is why the guide is created and why spreading the word and increasing awareness is good. So spread it!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=223855

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

Edited January 23, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[AeonWeapon]

I highlighted part of your post. First regardless of what type of system you can't really expect to party with someone offline do you? Same thing with the next part. If someone isn't looking for a group no system you put in place is going to suddenly automatically make them look for group. (Well APB does and it is annoying)

You are completely wrong with you can only communicate with people in one zone. Please read the guide completely or even use the tool to see that THAT is so wrong it is not funny.

 

The last part highlighted totally IS my point. People are not using it. Some because they believe it to be inferior, some because they just don't know about it, others because they refuse to use something different. The more people using the system the better it will work for the community.

 

THAT is why the guide is created and why spreading the word and increasing awareness is good. So spread it!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=223855

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

 

No , I don't expect to party with who's offline, but if there was a cross server tool, there would be alot more people online to choose from... that's what I meant... didn't think I'd have to explain that.

 

And ok fine, good guide to work with what we have.... but it's still not nearly, nearly, nearly good enough.

[Holden_Dissent]

just be patient, it'll come.

[Droidist]

What ever the solution is, I don't want it to ruin the in game experience by allowing people to be rude without any consquences. Having been in that other MMO for over six years, I can say a HUGE part of my leaving and my wife leaving was the rude community where people did what ever they wanted because they knew chances were they would never see you again.

 

So you waited in the LFG for over 20 minutes only to have rude people ruin your evening.

 

Before the cross-server finder this rarely if ever happened because everyone got to know who was rude and never grouped with those people. Players also knew they had to be nice if they wanted people to treat them nicely.

 

I would rather they join small pop servers before they allow cross server grouping.

 

my two cents....

Edited January 23, 2012 by Droidist

[Neiloch]

x-server also helps with the fundamental flaw of 'servers.' Why this system of servers is still used it beyond me. MMO's should have switched to a one server system as soon as EVE Online proved it to be viable in a popular MMO. Think about it, the server system prevents you from interacting with MOST of the people that play the game in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game. We are just playing 'next' to most of players, not WITH them.

 

Even before LFD you were playing with jerks in PUGs its just the really bad ones were few and far between. LFD meant you interacted with more players which inevitably means you play with more jerks. The biggest problem with accurate feedback is that more people tend to voice their feedback if it is negative rather than positive. This is because negative experiences tend to have a bigger impact. So you could have played with 10-20 nice/neutral people for every really bad one but I bet you can't specifically remember half of those more pleasant experiences.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Neiloch
more to say

[Droidist]

x-server also helps with the fundamental flaw of 'servers.' Why this system of servers is still used it beyond me. MMO's should have switched the a one server system as soon as EVE Online proved it to be viable in a popular MMO. Think about it, the server system prevents you from interacting with MOST of the people that play the game in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game. We are just playing 'next' to most of players, not WITH them.

 

This would work wonders!

[Dyvid]

What ever the solution is, I don't want it to ruin the in game experience by allowing people to be rude without any consquences. Having been in that other MMO for over six years, I can say a HUGE part of my leaving and my wife leaving was the rude community where people did what ever they wanted because they knew chances were they would never see you again.

 

So you waited in the LFG for over 20 minutes only to have rude people ruin your evening.

 

Before the cross-server finder this rarely if ever happened because everyone got to know who was rude and never grouped with those people. Players also knew they had to be nice if they wanted people to treat them nicely.

 

I would rather they join small pop servers before they allow cross server grouping.

 

my two cents....

So why can't we just have a same server dungeon finder? Only reason WoW went cross server was because there was so many dps and not enough tank/healer, SWTOR shouldn't have that problem once dual spec comes.

[Vitiock]

So why can't we just have a same server dungeon finder? Only reason WoW went cross server was because there was so many dps and not enough tank/healer, SWTOR shouldn't have that problem once dual spec comes.

 

Most of them are so against same server that it being an option button isn't even an option for them. They feel that the tool should only work for them instead of anyone who wants to use it, especially if it means their queue time might be affected by it.

[Mongerra]

At the very least it would be nice to have a LFG channel that was universal and could be seen regardless of what planet you were on. As it is on my low/mid level alts, my choices are to either do missions or twiddle my thumbs in the fleet. That isn't building a community nor is it fun in the least.

[BlueSkittles]

I just wonder if there is a compromise. Have the Normal mode leveling up Flashpoints be cross-server. Then create a new Normal mode Level Fifty version of Flashpoints and make them cross-server. Also make Normal mode Operations be cross-server.

 

But keep any Hard/Nightmare mode Flashpoints and Operations same server to keep a sense of "community". Not sure this would work, but it's kind of what WoW is doing with Raids, why not apply it to both Flashpoints and Operations.

 

Plus this way the Normal modes could be made "easy" for PUGS, which usually need to be kind of dumb-ed down for the "average" player.

 

To sum up:

 

Cross-server:

Normal mode leveling Flashpoints

*NEW* Normal mode Level Fifty Flashpoints

Normal mode Operations

 

Same-server:

Hard mode Flashpoints

Hard/Nightmare mode Operations

[Neiloch]

Well from the dev post, they basically said LFD is coming server only, and are open to making it cross server later on if needed. Frankly this is perfect imo, I just want the same server LFD to get put in much, much faster. Today, if possible.

[DarthKhaos]

Most of them are so against same server that it being an option button isn't even an option for them. They feel that the tool should only work for them instead of anyone who wants to use it, especially if it means their queue time might be affected by it.

In the mean time use what is given. See my sig. A super new LFG Tool isn't going to appear tomorrow. Let people know how to use what we got. Sure beats standing in fleet going "DPS LFG HM"

 

SPREAD THE WORD!!!

[Dyvid]

Hmm, I think we need a compromise here. One group wants the freedom to chose who they play with while the other wants to queue and go about their day.

 

How about this, a queue sign up sheet located in Cantinas?

 

You go to the cantina, open the sign up sheet for either Heroics, FP, HMFP, or 8OPS or 16OPS.

 

Next select the group activity (FP, Heroic, Ect..) and view what groups are currently looking for that spot:

Athiss 1

1) Tank: Bender

2) Healer: {Open}

3) DPS: Leela

4) DPS: Philip

 

Athiss 2

1) Tank: Zap

2) Healer: Amy

3) DPS: {Open}

4) DPS: {Open}

 

Select the group and then you just wait for it to be filled up while you go about leveling. Once the group is full you get a meesage to transport to the nearest cantina so you can start.

 

Solution is player get a choice to pick their group while you don't have to take a break from you adventure to /1 LFG in a stationary spot.

[Touchbass]

Well from the dev post, they basically said LFD is coming server only, and are open to making it cross server later on if needed. Frankly this is perfect imo, I just want the same server LFD to get put in much, much faster. Today, if possible.

 

Can you link that please? ty. Btw Neiloch you can't be pro X-LFD or LFD+ (server only) if you don't have a profile picture, didn't Blue send you the memo?

 

Also, wtb X-server grouping feature for you Blue I'd heal that ***

[AeonWeapon]

Let me explain something else. I refer to City of Heroes alot, because it's so easy to team in that game. It's a very overlooked and undervalued game.

 

What's so great about that game? It's not so much the content, I would even say the content could use improvement. What's great about it is that the whole structure of the game revolves around simple, painless, rewarding team play. I'll explain.

 

First let me say... City of Heroes does not have an LFG tool for most content. But it is so well designed to support team play, that it really doesn't need it. A game like WoW or TOR is not designed around team play like that, so in the case of these games, LFD is badly needed. TOR is mostly a solo game. Now City of Heroes CAN be soloed, but few players really want to play solo, because it's so much more fun and rewarding to play in a team, and so easy to get a team going.

 

-- Now a list of some of City of Heroes' team friendly features (most of which were in the game at launch, on day 1, 7 years ago), and other well thought out features designed with the goal in mind of removing the pain and tedium from MMO life:

 

Global names: You have a global chat name shared across all characters on all servers. People can add eachother to the global friend list and communicate no matter what character they play and what server they're currently on.

 

Search tool: You can search by class, level, zone, alignment... actually it's not that complicated, but with all the other features I will get into, it works fine.

 

"Sidekick/exemplar" system: People of any level can team up together. A level 1, a level 15, a level 30 and a level 50 can form a team, if the level 50 is team leader, all the powers of all teammates, as well as their health, will be equalized to level 50 level. The lower levels won't have as many powers, but the ones they have work at level 50. If they pass the lead to the level 30 guy, everyone, including the 50, will be set to level 30. All team members will receive xp and money from kills and mission completions as they would normally at their level.

 

Max team size is 8: This allows more flexibility with filling the needed roles. Basically you can do ok with one tank and a healer and the rest of the team can be anything at all. In fact, sometimes you don't even need a tank if you have a full team of 8 with alot of good powers. Sometimes you don't even need a healer if you have a few people with minor healing powers. Larger team allows for more room to breathe in team construction.

 

Instanced missions: Once your team enters a mission, it is in it's own instance, no camping, no waiting for respawns, no ninjad objectives, no pain.

 

Mission sharing: The team leader can choose any team member's mission from the mission window and set it as the team's mission. The mission is automatically available for everyone in the team, and the number of mobs is set according to number of team members and the difficulty setting it is set at. Even if you have done the same mission before, you can do it with the team. (The exception to this sytem is Taskforces and Strikeforces [the Flashpoints in this game], those have a certain level. For example, for a level 30 TF/SF, you must be at least level 30 to enter, and everyone on the team is set to level 30 once the missions start, even if they're level 50.)

 

Teaming Incentives: Xp and money and loot drops are earned faster with more teammates (or higher difficulty) because there are more mobs to kill, and the xp/money rewards for each kill are increased by number of team members. It is split up, so it's less per kill than you would get solo, but there's a whole lot more being killed. Mission completion rewards are also increased with team size and difficulty setting.

 

Automatic painless loot system: This is possibly the most beautiful part... There is no looting, at all. You don't even have to click bodies and interrupt the flow of gameplay. When an enemy is killed, it has a chance of dropping something, of course, this chance is multiplied by your number of team members (so if the mob has a 2% chance to drop an item, and you're in a team of 8 players, that mob has a 16% chance to drop an item.) Now here's the sweet part... When an item drops, it is automatically deposited into someone's inventory, by round robin. There is no notice to the team, it is private. The loot is distributed fairly, because the same amount always drops per person. No disputing over who gets what, no rolling, no ninjaing, no worries, no stopping the fighting to click bodies... it's complete loot peace of mind.

 

Now my point in spelling all this out... City of heroes from day one was designed with one goal in mind: Let players team up and have fun without the headaches found in many MMOs, encourage them to team with incentives, remove all worries and create fun interactions. Because the number one idea behind that game was group content, an LFG tool was not needed (although there is actually an LFG tool for large team raids with more than 8 players at end game, and that works well too, with no worries over loot or anything, for the reasons I described above.)

 

And like I said, CoH is also soloable (except for the TFs/SFs [FPs]), so those players who still don't like to team can still solo. But the point is, there is nothing to discourage people who love to team from teaming, and there is so much ease in teaming and so many incentives, and so many ways to share content that many players who might not even normally team up do anyway, and most have fun doing so. People usually wind up teaming for all the normal missions, not just specific team/raid content. I would say I have played that game with a team, gone through 7 level 50 characters and some lower level alts, with a team for 95% of my game time. And very often I just gathered up strangers, a couple from my friends list, and got going, and very rarely had a problem with anyone. Sure there was the occasional jerk, but we would kick him and move on, and I find the low-pain, low-grief, low-worry, low-tedium atmosphere of the game kept everyone in a good mood and no one had any reason to be concerned about the next player backstabbing them in some way.

 

Now, games like WoW and TOR are not designed with teaming as the primary concern. TOR was actually designed in such a way that there's very little incentive or design for sharing most missions. Even if you want to do all your normal "solo" missions with a team, unless you have someone you play with all the time, like a real life friend, it's usually impossible to keep someone with you at the same level and on the same missions, and once you've done a mission, you can't share it with another player who still has it.

 

Sure you could make friends and join guilds, but because of the structure of the game, you and your friends and guild mates are rarely at the same point in the missions or at the same level. Unless TOR was completely redesigned with ease of teaming as the primary goal and the very foundation of the game (which would be a huge project and just can't be done at this point because the whole game would have to be rebuilt), it simply needs to have tools added to make it easier to find people to share content with. And cross-server teaming is really the only viable solution.

 

One thing they can take from the City of Heroes book is a global chat name across servers, and global friend list. Another good idea would be the auto loot distribution, in the case of TOR, items should only have the "need" button available when they are wearable by your character and have the primary stats. (And no, companions don't count, we all get 6 companions, so if we could need for companions, then we need everything. Someone else suggested in another thread adding another button "need for companion", which would rank between need and greed, and that's a great idea.)

 

A couple of other great features in CoH, not related to teaming:

One of the most dynamic character appearance customization system in the history of video games

A very well designed and fully customizable user interface with movable and resizable windows and hotbars (up to 10 bars) (you can even change the colors)

Chat bubbles

 

I know, TL;DR, wall of text... I wish the Devs would read this and learn from other MMOs... I wish they would go log into CoH for just a few days for research. The full customizable UI in that game would offer some great ideas too.

 

I know: "So go play City of Heroes"... Well I still love the game, and it's great, but it is 7 years old for me, so I'm a bit bored... Although lately I am playing CoH a little again. Because without an LFG tool I can't really play the team content in TOR. I'm not a solo player, I'm sick of soloing in TOR, I wish I could team for every mission in the game and do nothing solo. I'm actually the type who gets bored of single player games very quickly, I rarely actually finish one. I play MMOs to team with people, and wish this game was designed to encourage teaming for EVERYTHING.

 

Now I'll say again, it's an old game, the content isn't always the best, there's not enough creative bosses for instance, and I'm not saying CoH is the best game ever, but in terms of refined UI, team play friendliness, and quality of life features, when you really look into it and analyze it, it's a work of friggin art lol... I encourage people, I encourage the developers, go try playing City of Heroes for a little while and get a feel for it (it's free to play now), check out this under-recognized game that doesn't get enough credit in the MMO world, play with the appearance customization, try teaming and see how all the team features work, and you'll see some great refinement, and some of you will wonder why all MMOs aren't designed to make team play so smooth and easy and painless. (Freedom or Virtue server for highest population, and if you want to team with me.)

Edited January 24, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[AeonWeapon]

x-server also helps with the fundamental flaw of 'servers.' Why this system of servers is still used it beyond me. MMO's should have switched to a one server system as soon as EVE Online proved it to be viable in a popular MMO. Think about it, the server system prevents you from interacting with MOST of the people that play the game in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game. We are just playing 'next' to most of players, not WITH them.

 

I really agree with this... I really wish all the population could be consolidated in some way. That would be the true ultimate solution... and I'm sure it's a thing for the distant future.

Edited January 23, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[AeonWeapon]

Most of them are so against same server that it being an option button isn't even an option for them. They feel that the tool should only work for them instead of anyone who wants to use it, especially if it means their queue time might be affected by it.

 

None of us ever said this, in fact I'm all for cross server, but I said pages back there should be an option for those who want to only team on the server.

 

And really, it's not a big deal for those of you who don't want to team cross server, it would work just like the warzones. You could form a team with people on the server FIRST, then queue up as a group. Problem solved for you. In fact, you wouldn't have to wait after you got your team together, you'd have your team, so you could just get in and go.

 

We've said this several dozen times in this thread, so I guess you just didn't read much and decided to attack us without any basis to your attack. If you're looking for an empty argument, you came to the wrong thread, because we have thought things out well here and discussed everyone's concerns.

[AeonWeapon]

I just wonder if there is a compromise. Have the Normal mode leveling up Flashpoints be cross-server. Then create a new Normal mode Level Fifty version of Flashpoints and make them cross-server. Also make Normal mode Operations be cross-server.

 

But keep any Hard/Nightmare mode Flashpoints and Operations same server to keep a sense of "community". Not sure this would work, but it's kind of what WoW is doing with Raids, why not apply it to both Flashpoints and Operations.

 

Plus this way the Normal modes could be made "easy" for PUGS, which usually need to be kind of dumb-ed down for the "average" player.

 

To sum up:

 

Cross-server:

Normal mode leveling Flashpoints

*NEW* Normal mode Level Fifty Flashpoints

Normal mode Operations

 

Same-server:

Hard mode Flashpoints

Hard/Nightmare mode Operations

 

Then the same problem would exist for end game content. No, I really want it for hard modes too. The only thing I see as MAYBE needing an exception is the Ops.

[AeonWeapon]

Well from the dev post, they basically said LFD is coming server only, and are open to making it cross server later on if needed. Frankly this is perfect imo, I just want the same server LFD to get put in much, much faster. Today, if possible.

 

Yeah I want the same server in "today!" too lol. And I want them working on cross server "today!" also, because it's needed without question.

Edited January 23, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[AeonWeapon]

Hmm, I think we need a compromise here. One group wants the freedom to chose who they play with while the other wants to queue and go about their day.

 

Compromise would be instantaneous. If they add the LFG tool, those of us who like it would use it as is. Those people who want to choose their team first could just get a team together first then queue up as a group. Both sides having their way is not a problem AT ALL, that's why so many of us don't understand why these people are so adamant about saying "I don't like LFG tool, so YOU can't have it!" If you don't liek random pugs, form your team before queueing, problem solved.

 

LFG would be just like the warzones, you can queue up solo or queue as a group.