jontyld Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There are established manners in our society. And I believe most people would agree that taking something away from a group of people where one needs to give to someone who is not there is bad form. When I go to someone's place for dinner, I don't bag up some food to take home until afterwards and its left over because its incredibly rude. But aside from that, is my opinion that companions dont actually need any flashpoint gear, but people want their companions to have it, which in my opinions closer fits the definition of greed. I really am curious though, are people just making a huge deal of this while leveling, or are there really people out there needing on energized/tier tokens to suit up their companions for belsavis dailys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My best one so far was a lvl 18 SW who was rolling need on Aim equipment when I was on my BH. Like 2 things dropped for Aim, and he kept rolling need. I asked him "Um, why are you rolling on aim gear?", and his reply was "companion", at which point I had to confront him "Vette and your ship droid are the only ones who you have atm. Vette is cunning. Your ship droid can't equip that, And you're next Companion is Quinn who uses Cunning, too. You don't get a Aim companion for about 20 levels! ALl you are doing is screwing me out of upgrades" And then he did it again and said "companion" for the final boss. Some people are just jerks. My fault because I should have booted his *** the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 If wow pets could equip gear do you think the 'need before greed' would work there? No.. We all know it. And there-in lies the conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There are established manners in our society. And I believe most people would agree that taking something away from a group of people where one needs to give to someone who is not there is bad form. When I go to someone's place for dinner, I don't bag up some food to take home until afterwards and its left over because its incredibly rude. But aside from that, is my opinion that companions dont actually need any flashpoint gear, but people want their companions to have it, which in my opinions closer fits the definition of greed. I really am curious though, are people just making a huge deal of this while leveling, or are there really people out there needing on energized/tier tokens to suit up their companions for belsavis dailys? But it's not 'taking away' from you.. Did you get a roll of the dice? Yes. Did you win? no. What more do you want? What you want is other people not to roll so you have a better chance to win. Sounds greedy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jontyld Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 But it's not 'taking away' from you.. Did you get a roll of the dice? Yes. Did you win? no. What more do you want? What you want is other people not to roll so you have a better chance to win. Sounds greedy to me. To me and what seems like most other people its roughly this simple. My character contributed to this kill and will use one of the rewards. Guy who rolls need for companion contributed to the kill and wants to take the reward for a digital companion that he uses some of the time. To me thats someone (something) outside of the group benefiting over someone who was in the group. I don't care if the other person if the same class as me. I'm not trying to setup guaranteed loot drops, I regularly play with other assassins all the time, but that's a mighty fine conclusion you jumped too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Wannabe Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This to be brutally honest. All the people claiming "established etiquette" need to realize that this game has some unique circumstances in it and etiquette and attitudes toward it need to adapt with the times. Don't assume every one in a PUG even knows of your particular version of loot etiquette much less follows it. Lay it out before hand and get agreement with your version or don't whine about it afterwards. Many games have had special rules. When games had Bind on Equip Epics, players said I can roll Need for my alts, but the prevailing rule was to only roll for the character you were playing. When games had alternate specs, players said I can roll Need for my off spec, but the prevailing rule was to only roll Need for the spec you were playing. So, the conventional wisdom of only rolling Need for the character and spec you are playing, doesn't change. There is no reason for this new circumstance to be any different from any other that has come along. If you want to roll Need for something other than the class and spec you are currently playing in the group, say so ahead of time. Don't expect other players to assume that the conventional, established, etiquette suddenly doesn't apply. There is a very vocal group on the forum that doesn't want to say "I'm going to roll Need for my companion". However, my experience in the game is that the vast majority of players is against this, if another player needs the gear for the character they are actually using in the group. I've only had to add two names to my "list" since I started playing this game in Early Access. The argument that a "large number of players" want to roll Need for their companions doesn't match with my in game experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Wannabe Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me and what seems like most other people its roughly this simple. My character contributed to this kill and will use one of the rewards. Guy who rolls need for companion contributed to the kill and wants to take the reward for a digital companion that he uses some of the time. To me thats someone (something) outside of the group benefiting over someone who was in the group. I don't care if the other person if the same class as me. I'm not trying to setup guaranteed loot drops, I regularly play with other assassins all the time, but that's a mighty fine conclusion you jumped too. I agree. I don't mind rolling against someone who contributed and will get just as much use from the item as I will. A companion will not benefit as much as an actual players character. The companion won't be used all of the time. It is also arguable that the stats on the gear have less effect on the performance of the companion than they do for an actual character. I've seen no evidence that companions and their gear is so vital that it matches the needs of an actual character. So, the character's needs are greater than the companion's needs. If you (whoever) perceive that your not present companions are just as important as other actually present characters, you should also realize that some players will perceive you as a ****, and may not want to group with you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me and what seems like most other people its roughly this simple. Based on these threads, the word "most" is not all that accurate. A lot of people seem to feel that it's completely fair to roll need on loot for a companion. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with that, I'm simply stating the undeniable fact that based on these threads a lot of people feel Need for companion is acceptable. So if you go into a PUG assuming everyone agrees with you, either way. Odds are you will find at least one person who disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Quote from Daniel Erickson from MMORPG.com interview (LINK): They are very customizable in terms of the look and feel. Each class has its own companion characters, they can be entirely looted, entirely kitted out, like in other BioWare games, which makes the whole loot routine a very interesting one, since someone can try to get some loot for their companion character that they don’t even have with them right now. Just to show how idiotic these effin MMO noobs are/were when designing this game. This particular "one" sees all the drama, anger and community destruction (as if this game needed any more) caused by this as ... "very interesting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Quote from Daniel Erickson from MMORPG.com interview (LINK): Just to show how idiotic these effin MMO noobs are/were when designing this game. This particular "one" sees all the drama, anger and community destruction (as if this game needed any more) caused by this as ... "very interesting."seems clear from that quote that the design intent is for people to need on gear for companions and mods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AibaTakaya Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I just don't understand why anyone needs gear for a companion anyway. If having your companion geared to be a member of your FP group is something you need to solo, you should reevaluate your playstyle. The game provides you with adequate gear for your companions already, and you should be finding a lot of drops for them while questing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light_Valkyrie Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I just boot people out that do that (or let them die). Dont piss off your healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 To me and what seems like most other people its roughly this simple. My character contributed to this kill and will use one of the rewards. And likewise my character contributed too and can use one of the rewards. How I use it, is just none of your business and that;s where the big mistake is made. To me thats someone (something) outside of the group benefiting over someone who was in the group.[/Quote] Yes, the character that helped you benefited. How is none of your business. That you are attempting to in some sway the loot roll in your favour, is just dare I say selfishness on your part. I don't ask you what you do with your loot, you don't ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think a lot of the debate is because of how/why you group. If you play primarily solo, and group up every once in a while to have done a particular heroic/flashpoint, it's only natural to feel you should roll "need" for your companion. He is part of you. Heck, for many character builds it's better to focus on equipping your companion over yourself. (healer comes to mind). If you primarily play for the group or PvP content, and only have your companion out those rare times you decide to grind out some levels on the single player content, then needing for companions seems bizarre. You don't really care WHAT your companion has equipped, why should they? To me, this game obviously seems designed with the former in mind, and the latter practically as an afterthrought, so I have to come down on the side of the former mindset. That being said, as others have stated. Talk it over first with your group. It'll alleviate all sorts of problem. What they *really* need to do is simply fix pass so that if everybody passes, it still rolls and gives the item to somebody instead of just leaving it on the floor for the first person to loot. Then there is no real problem with need = me, greed = companion, pass = gonna sell. (P.S. anybody else suspicious that those advocating greed = companion pass = gonna sell are the tank times standing up front doing most of the looting? That way anything everybody wants to sell is almost always gonna end up in their pockets.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfox_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 And likewise my character contributed too and can use one of the rewards. How I use it, is just none of your business and that;s where the big mistake is made. Yes, the character that helped you benefited. How is none of your business. That you are attempting to in some sway the loot roll in your favour, is just dare I say selfishness on your part. I don't ask you what you do with your loot, you don't ask me. That is because you are hiding it on a never seen character to the rest of us in a FP. The rest of the community that needs for current character only, can just put it on and you can /inspect if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 So, the character's needs are greater than the companion's needs. Says who? You? My companion is all important to me while leveling. BW made it that way. If you (whoever) perceive that your not present companions are just as important as other actually present characters, you should also realize that some players will perceive you as a ****, and may not want to group with you anymore. If you (whoever) perceive that you're more important than my choice of what I do with *my* loot, you're just being a tad selfish eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That is because you are hiding it on a never seen character to the rest of us in a FP. The rest of the community that needs for current character only, can just put it on and you can /inspect if you like. You miss the whole point.. It is none of my business what you do with your loot, as it is none of your business what I do with mine. End of story. Any other argument is just being selfish and in some way trying to increase your chance of gaining loot at my expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Quote from Daniel Erickson from MMORPG.com interview (LINK): Just to show how idiotic these effin MMO noobs are/were when designing this game. This particular "one" sees all the drama, anger and community destruction (as if this game needed any more) caused by this as ... "very interesting." That quote tells me that Bioware was fully aware of the looting aspect when they designed the game and the looting UI, and they left it up to the players to decide the meaning of need. Hence, they consider needing for companions appropriate since they did not put in rules to prevent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfox_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It's my business when you're grouping with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 seems clear from that quote that the design intent is for people to need on gear for companions and mods... lol, go for it. Most of us still see it as underhanded ninja'ing and youre only doing it once to me anyway so ..... w/e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfox_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 lol, go for it. Most of us still see it as underhanded ninja'ing and youre only doing it once to me anyway so ..... w/e This ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The game provides you with adequate gear for your companions already, and you should be finding a lot of drops for them while questing as well. And in pugs.. Don't forget that. If I help you in a pug, I have as much entitlement to get loot as well. What I do with it, is my business. You had a roll, I had a roll, if I win, I win. End Of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 It's my business when you're grouping with me. You think it is.. I don't agree with you how-ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 lol, go for it. Most of us still see it as underhanded ninja'ing and youre only doing it once to me anyway so ..... w/e How can it be ninja???? Ninja is taking something you were not *entitled* to take. Rolling on loot and winning it is and never was ninja'ing. No matter what you *think*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfox_ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) That's fine. Just make sure you tell me how you're going to be looting so I don't waste time with you in my group. I'd hate to get to the first green and have you need on it and have to go all the way out of the instance to replace you. Just a PITA. Sooner or later they will end up with stat restrictions on the need button. Took WoW a little while to figure it out, but was one of the best loot decisions they've made. Then I won't even have to read this brain numbing idiocy on the forums anymore. Edited January 26, 2012 by Nightfox_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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