iceperson Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Nice that you post your opinion. How-ever, I'm not interested in opinions, rather facts. You worry about your game, I'll worry about mine, thank you. Fact: Tell people you roll need for your companion at the start of a group and you'll get kicked 9 times out of 10. Fact: Don't say anything, but roll need for your companion and take an item from a player and you'll get kicked and/or ignored. Enjoy playing solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Some are in favor, some are not. GL sets loot rules. What the rules state you follow. Pretty easy formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboudreaux Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I felt the same way last night when I rolled on a blaster for my comp, It was the only thing out of the flashpoint I could have used. And if it's an upgrade for my comp and it helps me out and I won the roll then I guess you can QQ. do that in my group and you will be booted immediately, ignored and blacklisted. then again I only group with quality players so it shouldn't be a problem In case you don't understand why people get upset over this companions almost never accompany people on flashpoints and operations. you are being greedy by doing something that won't help the group as a whole.. by helping the group you are more successful as a group doing group content. I understand that you don't care about anyone but yourself .. but if you want to make friends, you better change that attitude or you will be complaining here that you can't find anyone to group with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Intent has to be inferred from SOMETHING. What single scrap of evidence does ANYONE have that it is the "intent" of Bioware that people get precidence over companions on gear? It is NOT enforced by loot rules. It is NOT inferred through the importance of companions in solo content. It is NOT inferred by anything Bioware has said. Besides prior experience in MMOs, which actually supports your opposition through Bioware's lack of action to combat said "ninjaing" despite ample opportunity, where are you inferring any intent whatsoever on behalf of Bioware? Right, so Bioware intended for lvl 12 boits to camp chests in Ilum BECAUSE YOU CAN. I assume they also intended for people to steal millions of credits through the stack exploit BECAUSE THEY CAN. Anyone looking for proof of what the status quo is just needs to read the thread and see the same 3 people arguing for the "Need for comp gear" side vs. the variety of experienced gamers who say it's not cool. There is karma in MMOs. Yesterday, someone whispered me "You're a healer, right?" (we'd quested together maybe a week ago). Long story short, I travelled across a whole planet to do a heroic with her and 2 others. They even waited for me to finish up the class quest I was in the middle of. Now, suppose that I joined the group, and saw someone in there who had unapologetically Needed on companion gear in a previous group. I would whisper my friend, who invited me, "Hey, Snoogums is part of the group? She's on my ignore list, sorry, I can't help." At which point, 2 things would happen. My friend would either say, "I understand, cya later", or "I understand, kicking now." Either way, no big loss for me. Just a cautionary tale in a cautionary thread. Need on comp gear at your own risk. Don't look down Edited January 15, 2012 by face_hindu spelling/formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, I'll tell you this- if you can find me an end game raiding guild that allows you to take something for one mod in it, when someone else in the raid needs the entire item as an upgrade, I'd be surprised. I wouldn't want to do anything with that guild, but I'd cede the point to you. I use +Crit in my example because it's a good one. Healers get use out of crit, as crit affects heals. DPS obviously wants crit in its builds. What's a guild going to do when a healer wants to improve their heal crit rate and a DPS wants to improve its DPS? They'll let the DKP decide. But the whining and drama will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonDingo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 At this point, this thread would be far more useful to post your character's name and server; and then votes for each side. That way we get a quantitative opinion (which is apparently required by some of the forum members), but more importantly, it'd let me go to town on my iggy list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This thread should suffice. MS>OS. It only becomes twisted when you twist it. You wouldn't behave this way with your guild, why is it ok to do it in a pug? MS>OS is your accepted code of practice. It is not mine. Therefore I deem your code of practice irrelevant to mine. if I'm in a guild I play by the guild rules. When I play in a PuG, I play my way. If I play in your PuG I agree to your rules, if you play in mine, you agree to mine. Here's a question for you. What would you all do if they just removed the 'need' button? Make up another fallacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 do that in my group and you will be booted immediately, ignored and blacklisted. then again I only group with quality players so it shouldn't be a problem In case you don't understand why people get upset over this companions almost never accompany people on flashpoints and operations. you are being greedy by doing something that won't help the group as a whole.. by helping the group you are more successful as a group doing group content. I understand that you don't care about anyone but yourself .. but if you want to make friends, you better change that attitude or you will be complaining here that you can't find anyone to group with Guess what? Gear obtained between level 1 and 49 never enters Operations either. Everyone that enters a flashpoint prior to level 50 is doing is to level, and hopefully to help others level. For this, the vast, vast majority of people use companions for the vast, vast majority of the time. By expecting people NOT to gear their companions, you are being selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plosky Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I know a lot of people who two-man a four-man heroic and use companions. Sure, it's possible to do that. I'm not saying that people don't do that. But to say that companions are non-extricable from characters is nonsense. There are also plenty of times where it's 4 players doing a four-man heroic. (In which, no companions are used) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Pretending that it's ok to behave 1 way with your guild and another with a pug is disingenuous. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 No, you are implying something that I am not inferring in any way, shape or form. By your rationale, I could claim that you are a hacker because you press buttons and use attacks to gain an advantage over people who click, even though the game supports it. It is not rational. There is NOTHING to infer that one should not roll for loot for companions. Not one scrap of information. Bioware went to the trouble of implementing a system that specifically ALLOWS one to roll need or greed regardless of class/spec, when there is clear precedent in other games of systems that disallow this. They made an active decision NOT to do so. I'd say you're arguing in circles but your just arguing off in random directions. It's real simple, but I know you need yo justify behavior so you'll argue against it all day but: Allowance by game mechanics does not equate to designer intent. Arguing that you can do it means you are suppose to do it is a silly position to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 At this point, this thread would be far more useful to post your character's name and server; and then votes for each side. That way we get a quantitative opinion (which is apparently required by some of the forum members), but more importantly, it'd let me go to town on my iggy list. A quantitive opinion is an opinion, not fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mineria Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Players who have geared their companions will still only be rolling Need for an extra item or two that doesn't apply to their main character, only jerks roll on everything. You know there is a gap between Needing on something that is actually an upgrade for a companion and Needing on everything, right? If you stated that you were needing on everything because someone rolled for a companion I would remove you for being a spoiled brat. If you simply needed on everything I would let it pass on the current group but not group up with you in the future. That shows a lack of respect for other players, which is noticeable to anyone with social skills. Players with a common sense in social skill will not roll Need for a companion upgrade if it is an upgrade for a player in the group. But who cares, chances for us getting into the same group is zero to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Pretending that it's ok to behave 1 way with your guild and another with a pug is disingenuous. /thread Who or what is this aimed at ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I use +Crit in my example because it's a good one. Healers get use out of crit, as crit affects heals. DPS obviously wants crit in its builds. What's a guild going to do when a healer wants to improve their heal crit rate and a DPS wants to improve its DPS? They'll let the DKP decide. But the whining and drama will be there. Why even bring up DKP (or other end-raid loot mechanics) in a need or greed thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Right, so Bioware intended for lvl 12 boits to camp chests in Ilum BECAUSE YOU CAN. I assume they also intended for people to steal millions of credits through the stack exploit BECAUSE THEY CAN. Bioware made a specific comment saying that not a single character was banned for entering Ilum at level 12; it was the botting that was the issue. Botting is clearly against the ToS; rolling need for companions is against.... your morals. Oops. Exploiting to steal millions of credits is against the terms of service. Rolling need for your companions is against... your morals. Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonDingo Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A quantitive opinion is an opinion, not fact. Well, drat. I'm glad you cleared that up. I was wondering if my Statistics class was just a waste of money or not. It's good to know opinion has never affected marketing, political choices, or the way games were made. Where were you when slicing was nerfed? You could have saved Slicing, and kept me rolling in credits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 A quantitive opinion is an opinion, not fact. Clearly your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plosky Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Bioware made a specific comment saying that not a single character was banned for entering Ilum at level 12; it was the botting that was the issue. Botting is clearly against the ToS; rolling need for companions is against.... your morals. Oops. Exploiting to steal millions of credits is against the terms of service. Rolling need for your companions is against... your morals. Oops. So according to you, morals should just be thrown out the window, and the TOS rules apply to everything? I sincerely hope that you never get a job with the government, the world would go up in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Why even bring up DKP (or other end-raid loot mechanics) in a need or greed thread? Mostly because the OP's definition of "ninja" is completely wrong. If you roll need for something you don't plan to use immediately, plan to put on your companion, plan to reverse engineer or plan to strip for mods, you're not a ninja. You might not be the nicest person on the server. But you're not a ninja. There's a roll involved. There's no ninja looting taking place. At all. Edited January 15, 2012 by SnoggyMack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well, drat. I'm glad you cleared that up. I was wondering if my Statistics class was just a waste of money or not. It's good to know opinion has never affected marketing, political choices, or the way games were made. Where were you when slicing was nerfed? You could have saved Slicing, and kept me rolling in credits! I can't be everywhere ya know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'd say you're arguing in circles but your just arguing off in random directions. It's real simple, but I know you need yo justify behavior so you'll argue against it all day but: Allowance by game mechanics does not equate to designer intent. Arguing that you can do it means you are suppose to do it is a silly position to take. I didn't say you are supposed to do it. I am saying there is no indication of whether you are supposed to do it or not, and any argument to the contrary is fallacious and subjective. You accuse us of having to "justify" and arguing off on random tangents while you do the exact same thing from our point of view; the entire argument is one gigantic mosh pit of subjective opinion. If you want to set verbal loot rules and enforce them by kicking people that go against you, fantastic. Any sort of expectation of players to perform a certain way not enforced or even suggested by the game or its creators is folley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 That may be all you use YOUR companions for. Not every limits themselves as much as you do. Are you honestly trying justify rolling over someone on a piece of loot for their actual character so that it can be gear for your "main pet?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooggums Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Pretending that it's ok to behave 1 way with your guild and another with a pug is disingenuous. /thread I have a preset rule distribution system with a guild that applies to further actions for myself in future content. Since there is a tendency for everyone to have the latest gear the majority of the gear is going to companions anyway. In PUGs, everyone can have a different concept of what is right or wrong when it comes to group play so I expect everyone to do things their own way. I don't know whether they are already over geared or are in need of gear for the content, so I don't pay any attention to what they have or what their class needs and I just Need based on my own character. This is how it should be, since I may or may not ever group with that player again, and I hold zero ill will for them rolling on what they think is appropriate for their Needs as long as I get the impression they are making actual decisions before hitting the Need button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plosky Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I can't be everywhere ya know Oh my, I don't think that you understood that his post was ridiculing you. Ignorance is bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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