Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec!

[Dunzo]

Why would we create a bigger incentive to not level the class that is not the best to level with?

 

Because a player should re-level an entire class for their own reasons. New choices, light/dark, whatever. Not because they are forced to in order to change their role in a dungeon, or because they didn't like how an AC turned out at level 40 or 50.

[Kilarn]

10 - 20 should give a good idea of whether you like the advanced class you chose or not, and leveling from 1 - 20 is so fast and easy that it's really not a problem to reroll then if you find you dont like your choice.

 

And i know this through experience...

 

50 BH Merc

40 SI Assassin

27 SI Sorc

35 SW Jugg

12 SW Marauder

20 IA Sniper

13 IA Op

 

And i still need to make a BH Powertech

[Husofanten]

One does not simply changes his advanced class!

 

I'm pretty sure that you will be able to change your advanced class in some months.

Not for free ofc.

Change your advanced class now for 20$.

[peaceandpassion]

no lets not make things easyer just because some1 else has done it.

[Darthconnor]

But let me throw you the idea for the second if I may in another light.

 

Take the operative, he can even in the other two specs heal an instance most of the time. For arguments sake however lets assume that the sniper just has more pure dps.

 

The sniper doesn't have the option to heal at all.

 

Why would we create a bigger incentive to not level the class that is not the best to level with?

 

Well to answer id have to say that with any kind of system theres gonna be those that openly abuse said system. Now most go the way of if its not there then it cant be abused but id say your punishing the ones that would use it as a way to correct some mistake or make it so they can keep what they have instead of just getting rid of it. Now with this one time or multi time respec that can happen but as said its gonna happen if possible anyways. Yea with smuggler and agent your gonna have snipers and gunslingers dpsing without the base heals they have had if they were stuck in the advance class they intend on using but your basically punishing the players that would use it for the right reasons to keep the ones that wouldnt having heals throughout instead of when they were done leveling or close.

 

I dont like being punished or kept from having something because someone else would abuse it. Like taking guns from hunters and ppl that have them for self defense cause others are using them to do harm. Not having something because theres someone that will abuse it isnt really a good choice to me. Your always gonna have those that will do work arounds or use something in a unintended way, that doesnt mean it shouldnt still be offered to those that use it properly

[raidyr]

I'm fully willing to play this game without AC respecs, and I respect the fact that Bioware has setup the class system as such. The AC's aren't full-fledged classes so much as specs, but I still don't mind.

 

That said, since the first interviews about AC's being locked came out up until this thread I have yet to see a single good reason for them not to be respec-able. Most of the points seem to be made for arbitrary difficulty/inefficiency in grouping and forcing you to run alts rather than any real practical application. It comes across as one of those "I don't like it so no one else should be able to do it" things.

 

How does it impact you that someone who leveled a Powertech BH to 50 and found out he wanted to heal wants to switch AC's? Other than, of course, the obvious benefit of more easily-accessible healers.

Edited January 15, 2012 by raidyr

[TorkazXek]

You shouldn't be able to change your class... Everyone will be flavor of the month... Edited January 15, 2012 by Paralassa
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[RealAeiouy]

You shouldn't be able to change your class... Everyone will be flavor of the month...

 

Yeah it ruins balance and content

 

Making it so there are only four classes does not make the game better

Edited January 15, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Aldoman]

no. advanced class is a class. If you allow switching between them then you might as well allow people to switch to an entirely new class because thats what you are asking for.

I suppose the reasoning for not allowing class change is that you must level using a certain story line. I don't see the logic in that, but even if that were true, it is not true for advanced class.

 

Lets say I get a toon to 50 as bounty hunter with heals. I feel that I made a mistake at level 10 and I enjoy being a dps. Now I have to go through exactly the same story line! Have fun another 3 weeks doing the same story line over!

 

 

I'd even go as far allowing switching class entirely. That allows for more psychologically balanced game play. Let's say you feel that agents are OP'ed in PvP. So pay a 500K credits (in addition to all the gear you need) to respec to an imp agent and try your luck there.

 

That would also solve the problem of any conceived or actual OPed class. If developers see that 90% of players are agents, they'll nurf agents...lol.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Aldoman

[Darthconnor]

Yeah it ruins balance and content

 

Making it so there are only four classes does not make the game better

 

How is it that me going from powertech to mercenary ruin your content. Balance is ruined anytime there a imbalance and whether this is put in or kept out if there is a all great build there are those that will do what it takes to get it even if only to have it for a month. Also if its only a one time deal then its only gonna provide them the chance to be a FOTM once. Which honestly if someone is determined to become some FOTM clone they are gonna become it and only the patches will stop that.

 

Sorry but i cant see this ever killing someone else content and it wouldnt ruin balance more then one time as its only once per character or thats all im willing to allow. One time deal to let those that have gone up the ladder and thought im really sick of this playstyle not hit the delete button for atleast a few while they try out the other Advance class.

 

Even multiply respecs wont ruin your content unless your killing one advance class type and someone gets tired and switches and then is able to start beatin the crap out of you. Other then that i cant see how or why itd ruin your content

[LordSatoh]

I am against it.

Maybe till lvl 15 where some people might be not sure but past that no way.

[Aldoman]

I am against it.

Maybe till lvl 15 where some people might be not sure but past that no way.

 

But you don't get to experience the full potential of your class until you hit 40 or so. So what do u suggest? Start from level 15 again? What's wrong with paying for your "mistake" in credits rather than your time? That would be a great way to sink credits in the game (ie balance economy)

[Gunryu]

If they allow you to change your advance class, they have cut their possible playthrough replayability in half.

 

They are trying to make money here.

 

/thread again

 

 

What replay? I find it hard enough to level an alt because of all the cut scenes in side quests and tend to spacebar through out of sheer boredom.

[Kurtayn]

I think they should just take out the 1-10 base classes and replace them with AC's changing class numbers from 4 to 8 then there is no need for AC changing as they would be individual classes.

 

This is exactly what they did with EQ2.

[raidyr]

Yeah it ruins balance and content

 

Making it so there are only four classes does not make the game better

 

This isn't making a point, it's just saying words.

 

For the record though, it would do the opposite for content. With more freedom to change between roles, more experimentation will be done, and ultimately more healers/tanks will be available.

[Eegorr]

You can't respec your warrior to a mage or a rogue in WoW either, which is roughly the same thing.

 

One reason the system is the way it is now is to have four story-lines in stead of eight I suppose. It's also a risky design decision since the silver platter crew will immediately jump on the respec-issue as a failing that should be in the game. Had the choice been at level one in stead of level ten, but with the same story line, I don't think as many people would be complaining.

 

What we are getting now is a service to try out our class for a bit before we commit to a certain AC. Working as intended, and I really hope they don't change that.

[raidyr]

You can't respec your warrior to a mage or a rogue in WoW either, which is roughly the same thing.

 

One reason the system is the way it is now is to have four story-lines in stead of eight I suppose. It's also a risky design decision since the silver platter crew will immediately jump on the respec-issue as a failing that should be in the game. Had the choice been at level one in stead of level ten, but with the same story line, I don't think as many people would be complaining.

 

What we are getting now is a service to try out our class for a bit before we commit to a certain AC. Working as intended, and I really hope they don't change that.

 

How is respeccing my druid from balance to feral tanking any different from letting a telekinetic sage respec to a shadow tank? And that's going with your cherrypicking of the most "out there" AC's. What about Guardians/Sentinels? That's literally a change from prot warrior to fury/arms. Bounty Hunter is a change from prot paladin to holy/ret paladin.

 

Obviously it's working as intended; the argument is against the intent.

[Lethality]

No, because unlike other games Bioware has two tiers of specialization instead of one. This game gives you 4 classes per side, each with 2 subclasses to specialize in, each with 3 trees to further specialize in. It's like comparing apples to oranges. And debating the wording of what is an "advanced class" is silly and dumb. We all know it's a specialization of the primary, overall class.

 

No, BioWare gives you 4 stories per side, with two classes to specialize within each.

 

Once folks just understand and accept this, this whole weird request of switching classes just goes away.

 

Furthermore being against this idea for nothing more then an apparent principal is just plain ignorant. How does it hurt anyone to allow players to have more freedom? Should Bioware not allow us to change appearance for our companions? Should they not allow tree respecs at all?

 

There has to be rules and constructs that define how "game play" happens. That's what makes a game a game, and one game different from another.

 

Using your strawman thinking, you would be ok with changing from a Trooper to Smuggler as well, right? If not, why not?

[Lethality]

How is respeccing my druid from balance to feral tanking any different from letting a telekinetic sage respec to a shadow tank? And that's going with your cherrypicking of the most "out there" AC's. What about Guardians/Sentinels? That's literally a change from prot warrior to fury/arms. Bounty Hunter is a change from prot paladin to holy/ret paladin.

 

Obviously it's working as intended; the argument is against the intent.

 

Because your druid has that tank spec available within it's talent tree. You can respec your sage to a dps'er though. You just can't change his class to a shadow.

 

This isn't about roles, as all classes in TOR have at least 2 within each AC. It's about classes. The Sage is a class, the Shadow is a class. No switching between them.

 

Just like you can't switch your druid to a warrior: different armor, different abilities, different weapons, different roles.

 

In TOR, classes are stories and advanced classes are classes.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Lethality

[raidyr]

Using your strawman thinking, you would be ok with changing from a Trooper to Smuggler as well, right? If not, why not?

First off, you aren't using strawman correctly.

 

Secondly, no, switching entire classes would be silly. No one in WoW wants to respec their holy paladin to a warrior to try tanking, simply respec to prot. Same theory in this game.

 

Because your druid has that tank spec available within it's talent tree. You can respec your sage to a dps'er though. You just can't change his class to a shadow.

 

This isn't about roles, as all classes in TOR have at least 2 within each AC. It's about classes. The Sage is a class, the Shadow is a class. No switching between them.

The difference between talent trees and AC's seems arbitrary to me. Instead of naming a practical reason why we can't respec AC's, you are just stating the obvious, that AC's are merely different talent specs but locked together.

 

 

Just like you can't switch your druid to a warrior: different armor, different abilities, different weapons, different roles.

Again though you are cherrypicking examples. I can just as easily go back to druid and make the comparison there. Feral druids use entirely different abilities, armor (statistically, so even more different), weapons, and roles than balance or resto druids.

 

In TOR, classes are stories and advanced classes are classes.

Then if I reach level 50 doing the exact same story with literally no changes as a Powertech BH, let me instantly acquire a level 50 Mercenary BH in similar gear. Otherwise it's arbitrary work and effort to level the exact same class, just with a different specialization that in any other game (especially this ones prime competitor) would be a talent option.

 

Again, I'm not for or against AC respecs particularly. I'm fine with Bioware wanting to keep it like it is. I just haven't seen a good enough argument beyond arbitrary wording and gates. Again I ask: What does it matter to you that I want to switch my Powertech to a Mercenary?

[Aldoman]

Comparison to WoW is pointless since if you want to play WoW you can. This is TOR which should bring something new to the table aside from better graphics. Allowing switching classes is risky? I think not. Look, if someone wants to change class or advanced class but doesn't want to do the grind, they start looking for accounts that they can buy or power leveling options. Not allowing class change with legitimate in-game means only encouragers illegitimate means.

[raidyr]

Comparison to WoW is pointless since if you want to play WoW you can. This is TOR which should bring something new to the table aside from better graphics. Allowing switching classes is risky? I think not. Look, if someone wants to change class or advanced class but doesn't want to do the grind, they start looking for accounts that they can buy or power leveling options. Not allowing class change with legitimate in-game means only encouragers illegitimate means.

 

And, in the long run, ruins the community of players by limiting how many tanks and healers are available at hand.

[DarthKhaos]

No thanks. Make a choice and stick with it.

 

I find it funny people use the "I got to play through the same class quest line if I make another to chose a different AC." yet in every other game in existence they play through the exact same quests no matter WHAT class they play.

 

You don't like your AC you can realize that before you hit level 15 and roll a new one. If not no AC changing can help you.

[Akkalevil]

I'm on the fence about it.

 

On one hand, I highly dislike the "convenience above all" and "everything on a silver platter" that all the casual mantra has brought to the game industry, and which has completely ruined countless games. I like things to require involvement, time and effort, and to feel rewarding.

 

On the other hand :

- the main draw of the leveling phase of SWTOR is the story, which is the same for both specializations of a class. In all MMO you may follow the same events, but the much more story-based approach here makes even much more egregious.

- You can only start to taste the gameplay of a spec after doing several levels with the common base, and this common base give next to none idea about how the gameplay of the advanced classes will feel. All the informations on the Net is pointless compared to the actual feel of the class when you actually play it.

- Specializations are still sharing a common "trunk class" which makes it much more acceptable than totally different classes.

 

So really... I've a hard time deciding one way or another.

But I think I tend more toward allowing the switch, either against a hefty fee and/or with a very long cooldown (something like one or two weeks).

[dadamowsky]

Most of your arguments against respecing is.. well, at least wierd. Because you use an argument like "different spec is different". No... That can't be a reason why we'd like a respec - to try something different

 

As I said previously, I see no reason to reroll my smuggler once again just to try how gunslinger works (and I'm really keen on checking dual blaster wielding ). I had some free time so far so I could sink in for 10+ hours a day, so managed to level up my main to 47. But now projects (which means $$$, also to actually pay my sub), friends, and whole this RL stuff awaits, so... well, you probably get my point. I don't have enough time to push my sith warrior further, so he stuck at 19 and Nar Shaddaa beginning.

 

If gunslinger even had different story. Or there were vital decisions to be made in the story making outcome different. But there are not and none.

 

Why am I so story-focused? Why I don't want to sacrifice my time once again to simply create alt? Well... this is most important paragraph of my post. Because I've been promised not to be forced to make nerdy, no-life'y, and dull grind (main reason of my avoidance and/or giving up most MMOs). I've been promised not to be bored by stomping virtual grass-hopper to get my 0.0001 xp over and over again to gain lvl 2 peasant (vide Jolly Jack's sequential art ).

 

Ok, let the respecs cost - levels, timely debuff, credits. I don't care because it will save the most important resource I have - TIME. But to disable such option since both specs inside every class share same story, beeing at the same time so different? I have no guess who came up with this idea, but it's simply wrong. At least comparing to the promises that were made.

Edited January 15, 2012 by dadamowsky