universeman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 What I think is dishonest, is the refusing to acknowledge that rolling need for companions is going against the grain, and not speaking up about their intentions ahead of time because they either feel their way is more righteous to begin with, or because they're worried that they will not be invited because of it. This exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 After you have been level 50 for 2-3 weeks and have cleared EV and KP a few times, trust me, the low level gear distribution pettiness will become moot as you strive to counter boredom with every possible trick you can pull out of your hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I refrained from answering because I dislike hypothetical. But anyways; If I was playing a tank and I had a healer companion, I'd probably opt to gear myself first. If something drops that is going to increase the healing from my companion, the of course, I am going to 'need' on it. I hope that answers the question Thanks for playing along. So basically all things being equal you would gear yourself first, and companion second. I am not trying to pigeonhole you...I honestly could not care less other than liking to see both sides, but just trying to point out why many people feel putting companions on equal footing with mains is slightly frowned upon....but I am sure you already know this anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) its not about importance. You (in my opinion) are on the less popular side of a very polarizing issue. I think it would be best for everyone if intentions were made clear before groups begin. Because I think everyone agrees that needing on items for your own player character's stat and armor type is fine, I think it should be on the people intending to need on anything else to make their intentions known. ^^^^ This. He's going to say "what consensus? The people I play with need for companions!", but this kind of thing has been going on in MMOs for 10 years and most people respect others enough to pass on items that they can not use on their PC when it's an upgrade for the other person. It's just the way it is. There are always players that need whatever they want regardless of the group they're playing with, but these people often do get fussed out for doing it. Why do they get fussed out? Well, because they're going against the consensus. When most people pass or greed when it's an upgrade for someone else, yet you need on other players PC upgrades, people will get upset. And honestly, the main reason is that the person needing for companions had an unfair advantage. Because he doesn't state his intent, people that do follow the consensus (again, most people) end up passing on this person's class loot and then losing on their own class loot because this person needs and wins that too. If you're going to go against the obvious consensus, speak up with your intent before looting if you don't want to be fussed at. Otherwise, it really is your own fault. Edited February 21, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 its not about importance. You (in my opinion) are on the less popular side of a very polarizing issue. I think it would be best for everyone if intentions were made clear before groups begin. Because I think everyone agrees that needing on items for your own player character's stat and armor type is fine, I think it should be on the people intending to need on anything else to make their intentions known. Why should I seek your approval of something I earned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druru Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So since everyone gets companions that use the various combinations of stats by your logic everyone should roll need on everything. You, sir, are the reason why I don't PuG. QFT I PUG though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Thanks for playing along. So basically all things being equal you would gear yourself first, and companion second. I am not trying to pigeonhole you...I honestly could not care less other than liking to see both sides, but just trying to point out why many people feel putting companions on equal footing with mains is slightly frowned upon....but I am sure you already know this anyway. I do know, and I fully understand. But, I've been burned by this NBG thing so many times on so many games, I refuse to allow it happen to me again. And yes, even on ToR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Mechanically speaking, the person who wins the roll for a companion IS someone who participated in the fight. They just intend to give the item to their companion. This is why "need for companion" isn't mechanically a solution. People who absolutely "need" that item for whatever reason they need it for, will roll Need. which is the same is rolling need for Alts that aren't in the Fight which is a huge no no and the same as rolling need for a friend who's not in the group. Companions should be secondary to players unless no one wants the item. People who do that in my groups get kicked out. As a tank with my friend always the healer we always run our own dungeon groups. If your a DPS and anger the tank and the healer...good luck finding another group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 which is the same is rolling need for Alts that aren't in the Fight which is a huge no no and the same as rolling need for a friend who's not in the group. Companions should be secondary to players unless no one wants the item. People who do that in my groups get kicked out. As a tank with my friend always the healer we always run our own dungeon groups. If your a DPS and anger the tank and the healer...good luck finding another group. Exactly this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ^^^^ This. He's going to say "what consensus? The people I play with need for companions!", but this kind of thing has been going on in MMOs for 10 years and most people respect others enough to pass on items that they can not use on their PC when it's an upgrade for the other person. It's just the way it is. There are always players that need whatever they want regardless of the group they're playing with, but these people often do get fussed out for doing it. Why do they get fussed out? Well, because they're going against the consensus. When most people pass or greed when it's an upgrade for someone else, yet you need on other players PC upgrades, people will get upset. And honestly, the main reason is that the person needing for companions had an unfair advantage. Because he doesn't state his intent, people that do follow the consensus (again, most people) end up passing on this person's class loot and then losing on their own class loot because this person needs and wins that too. If you're going to go against the obvious consensus, speak up with your intent before looting if you don't want to be fussed at. Otherwise, it really is your own fault. Read above.. I've played along with this NBG thing before and sometimes, still do, depending on the players I'm playing with. But I've seen peeps need and sell, peeps need and leave, peeps need and use on an alt and a myriad of other things. So don't expect me to trust anyone on any game to abide by the consensus. The NBG thing works fine if you know the players you are playing with. In a general PuG, I' sorry you don't know any of them so in my opinion, it's best I play my game, and roll on what-ever I need, because sure as MOnday comes after Sunday, everyone else is doing the exact same thing. As for informing players, that's not going to happen. I don't feel I have any requirement to inform or seek yours or anyone else's approval. You guys can claim all kinds of blacklisting, kicking me from your group, and you know what, I really don't care. I prefer to do my thing on my terms, not yours. If you want me to bow to you, it's just not going to happen and I can happily live with not grouping with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I do know, and I fully understand. But, I've been burned by this NBG thing so many times on so many games, I refuse to allow it happen to me again. And yes, even on ToR. Is this the same person who is arguing that it's ok to click NEED whenever he wants? How can you get "burned" on something that you're taking advantage of? Or, are you not taking advantage of the system and everyone else is just not using it right? The thing is, they are the ones getting burned now. So, you were one of us at one point and you just changed your tune so you wouldn't be the one getting burned anymore...? Seems you're just arguing to argue now (is this what's called a troll? no offense, because I've never called anyone that before...but seriously). That's pretty messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 which is the same is rolling need for Alts that aren't in the Fight which is a huge no no and the same as rolling need for a friend who's not in the group. Companions should be secondary to players unless no one wants the item. People who do that in my groups get kicked out. As a tank with my friend always the healer we always run our own dungeon groups. If your a DPS and anger the tank and the healer...good luck finding another group. *yawn* heard it all before, ignored it all before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyTrek Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lots of pages of replies, and certainly people on both sides of this issue, as well as some in the middle. Being a long time gamer and MMO player, I come down somewhere in the middle of this issue. First I agree that gear/item rolls should be defined first in a PUG. I will roll need for the actual character I'm playing on for an item that I can immediately equip (or could equip when I ding the next level), otherwise I'll roll greed. As for companions... in SWTOR they ARE part of your character which presents a unique dilema. If an item dropped that my companion, (who I'm using in that PUG) could use/equip on the spot I would have no issue rolling need for it. If I and my companion helped clear the FP or down the boss for the gear, then I should be able to roll need. However, myslef personally, I would likely ask the rest of the group if I could need for said companion before choosing need. Since, I'd rather have a good rep within my server/community than get a shiney new piece of gear that I may or may not still be using in 5 more levels. This is also why I don't favor cross server LFG, since people know they may never play with the group again, you get more ***hatery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Is this the same person who is arguing that it's ok to click NEED whenever he wants? How can you get "burned" on something that you're taking advantage of? Or, are you not taking advantage of the system and everyone else is just not using it right? The thing is, they are the ones getting burned now. So, you were one of us at one point and you just changed your tune so you wouldn't be the one getting burned anymore...? Seems you're just arguing to argue now (is this what's called a troll? no offense, because I've never called anyone that before...but seriously). That's pretty messed up. Oh gosh, he called me a troll, whatever will I do now.. Your circular argument is archaic and without merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Why should I seek your approval of something I earned? Question. If you join a group and the group leader immediately says, "Loot rules for this group: Only greed for companions. If you don't agree with that and won't follow it, please speak up now." Do you leave the group? Do you follow the rules set by the leader? Do you tell them you will be rolling need on companions? Or do you just stay quiet and roll need on companions without mentioning it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Question. If you join a group and the group leader immediately says, "Loot rules for this group: Only greed for companions. If you don't agree with that and won't follow it, please speak up now." Do you leave the group? Do you follow the rules set by the leader? Do you tell them you will be rolling need on companions? Or do you just stay quiet and roll need on companions without mentioning it? I leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You guys can claim all kinds of blacklisting, kicking me from your group, and you know what, I really don't care. I prefer to do my thing on my terms, not yours. If you want me to bow to you, it's just not going to happen and I can happily live with not grouping with you. It's people like you who ruin the game for so many others, and why the NEED/GREED system doesn't work. You got burned in the past because you were like us, trying to use it as it was meant to be used. Now, you're one of them, burning the rest of us and trying to legitimize your opinion based on selfishness. Hey, to each his own. I just wish BW would do something about the system. Because, the way people get frustrated in game about this stuff really ruins the camaraderie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) *yawn* heard it all before, ignored it all before. You can hear it all you want or not want i really don't care im just stating how i personally run with groups. Flash points are not solo content if you want gear for your companion get it through the solo content there's plenty of wayts to get orange gear that doesn't involve screwing over people grouping with you. Please post your name and server so i can be sure to never group with you so that you acn go about yoru ninja anti social ways and I can go about my fair game ways. Once the new rolling system comes in people who break the rules then all of you ninjas will have no argument at all. Edited February 21, 2012 by Kindara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I leave. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Oh gosh, he called me a troll, whatever will I do now.. Your circular argument is archaic and without merit. You're getting defensive over it because you realize you're wrong. I have no intention of calling you a troll. But, you're obviously trying to stir up trouble here by justifying things that clearly come from being selfish. Hey, no offense intended. Just calling it as I see it. And most of the people posting here seem to see it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You can hear it all you want or not want i really don't care im just stating how i personally run with groups. Flash points are not solo content if you want gear for your companion get it through the solo content there's plenty of wayts to get orange gear that doesn't involve screwing over people grouping with you. Please post your name and server so i can be sure to never group with you so that you acn go about yoru ninja anti social ways and I can go about my fair game ways. Once the new rolling system comes in people who break the rules then all of you ninjas will have no argument at all. Indeed though it will never happen because he probably doesn't tell people upfront that he intents to steal their loot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You can hear it all you want or not want i really don't care im just stating how i personally run with groups. Flash points are not solo content if you want gear for your companion get it through the solo content there's plenty of wayts to get orange gear that doesn't involve screwing over people grouping with you. Please post your name and server so i can be sure to never group with you so that you acn go about yoru ninja anti social ways and I can go about my fair game ways. Once the new rolling system comes in people who break the rules then all of you ninjas will have no argument at all. I've posted my name and sever previously. I'll ask you this; If you are such a nice person, how come you feel it is correct to insult me on an online forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universeman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Indeed though it will never happen because he probably doesn't tell people upfront that he intents to steal their loot Exactly. I have never seen someone join a group (or worse yet, be the group leader) and say up front the loot rules they expect to play by when they are the ones who will NEED anything they desire... And yet, they still blatantly (after everyone else seems to be abiding by NEED/GREED etiquette) click NEED when one of the other players could easily use it on their character actually being used in the group (and subsequently claim they can use it on a companion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) People can play philosopher as much as they want about whats the most "fair", but I could care less. So, you care more bout stacking the deck in your favor than being fair; that's an awfully selfish stance. What I think is dishonest, is the refusing to acknowledge that rolling need for companions is going against the grain,No, there's nothing dishonest about about expecting to be able to roll need for loot that you'll use where you've participated in the kill. Edited February 21, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 BTW what games did you play online in the early 80s?MUDs and BBS games probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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