People who ninja for their companions

[Setanian]

Interesting... anyhow. What does you companion add to the group? Nothing, and that is exactly what you companion deserves to receive from the group.

 

But I do deserve... And I can give whatever I win to the companion.

[Setanian]

Have fun, in three weeks you will be alienated from any groups in the game. I doubt your Guild will even tolerate raiding with you if you have that attitude.

 

 

Now to all the Ninja rollers in this thread - Rolling need for you companion is fine, ONLY if everyone else roles greed.

 

Putting your companion, an AI, over an actual player is not only selfish - but it will not be tolerated in most groups (Especially mine.) As said earlier, doing this action enough will effectively alienate all players from you - thus kill your group experience.

 

Let me re-phrase this for you..

 

To all the players partaking in a group and winning the event, you can roll however you please.

 

Do not allow other group members to dictate how you roll, they are just trying to enhance their chances of winning.

 

You helped win, you deserve to roll on the loot.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Setanian

[GuyTallman]

Clearly since I can roll need whenever I choose, and I can equip the item on my companion then this is exactly how the system was intended to work right?

 

Just like all that fuss about exploits. If its in the game and it works, then that is clearly how it was intended to function right?

 

Oh...

[Acererak]

I worry about the future of MMO players when the majority of posters here seem to be supporting the 'need for companions' idea. If people don't come first in your view and you can rationalise taking something from someone as 'personal use' then I pity you, or actually I pity your RL friends. If you have any.

 

A companion is a computer generated non-player character that has no feelings or desires. A person, on the other hand, does, and when that person is able to win a piece of gear that would significantly enhance his character then he gets a little excited. Then you come along, a person who can't use it but whose companion can, and takes that item from him claiming that you can use it.

 

No, you can't use, your soulless unfeeling binary generated npc can use it. You've just hurt someones feelings over greed and the complete lack of consideration for your fellow man. Way to go!

 

Companions are not separate entities, they are part of your character. Your companions chest slot is an equipment slot for your character just like any of your character slots are. The companion isn't another person, its an extra limb, like a 3rd arm or a second head. Its part of your character and equipping it is equivalent to equipping your character.

[Marmerus]

Companions are not separate entities, they are part of your character. Your companions chest slot is an equipment slot for your character just like any of your character slots are. The companion isn't another person, its an extra limb, like a 3rd arm or a second head. Its part of your character and equipping it is equivalent to equipping your character.

Exactly so everyone should always roll need on everything since you can sell that item so you can afford buying a new item in some other slot.

Bioware should have removed the GREED button. Since being nice is something that belongs in WoW. In this game the winner is the one who is the biggest *****hat.

 

Lets face it, pressing greed on an item your character can't use is like shaking hands or help old ladies cross the street. Its not something you need to do. But if you treat other people nice they will return the favor and treat you better.

[Acererak]

ITT: 46 pages of people arguing over a problem that Bioware intentionally created and could easily solve.

 

You all need to stop attacking people who you think are stealing from you because the fact is you are being robbed. You're being robbed by the greedy punks who thought it was OK for a boss that was taken down by 35 people to only drop one really good item. If everyone who fought that world boss got their own purple prototype then this argument wouldn't exist.

 

The game is new so maybe Bioware will learn their mistake and change things so they don't have a game that pits players against each-other in heated 50 page arguments. Either they learn to change things to keep players form tearing each other apart, or Guild Wars 2 will come along and stick a fork in this turkey.

[Kourage]

On Tarris group of 16 level 32-37 take down ancient one world boss.

 

3 agents in group. A nice purple protype drops clearly meant for agents. All roll need.

 

A sith assasin also rolls need and wins, saying he needed it for his companion.

 

 

***

 

He rolled and won. Can't be a ninja.

Call him greedy, but not a ninja.

[JediMasterHope]

Let me re-phrase this for you..

 

To all the players partaking in a group and winning the event, you can roll however you please.

 

Do not allow other group members to dictate how you roll, they are just trying to enhance their chances of winning.

 

You helped win, you deserve to roll on the loot.

 

What if me and my companions are fully geared and another person in the group could use the gear? Would it be ok for me to roll need so I can sell it for credits?

[Darkeus]

I think some people need to get out of the WoW mentality and get into the SWTOR mentality. Companions use the same gear as player characters. What is the problem with rolling need for a companion? My friends and I do it when we group together, it is called adapting to the game that you are playing. This is not WoW, this is a different MMO with different rules and design. Everybody has a companion and they use they to play the game.

 

Some old fashioned ideas here, ideas that do not apply to this game.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Darkeus

[kirorx]

companions are not like pets, you have to "have" to use them. The game is scaled in a way that you can't venture out completing quests with out there help. So its not ninja'ing IMO.

[rzrknight]

Man all you can do is leave the party or kick the guy , ignore him and tell you friends to do the same , with time when he gets lvl 50 he will then have problems to pub and thats it. Edited January 15, 2012 by rzrknight

[snooggums]

What if me and my companions are fully geared and another person in the group could use the gear? Would it be ok for me to roll need so I can sell it for credits?

 

Then you would be a jerk, because you don't need that specific piece of gear.

[Uzilara]

the first pugger that rolls need on an item for his companion before a player, gets the boot in any group of mine.

 

If they ask first and no other player needs it, that's something different but then i expect everyone in the group will roll need as they probably all have a companion who can use it.

[PjPablo]

the first pugger that rolls need on an item for his companion before a player, gets the boot in any group of mine.

 

If they ask first and no other player needs it, that's something different but then i expect everyone in the group will roll need as they probably all have a companion who can use it.

 

This ^

 

Completely agree.

[Elyons]

Let me re-phrase this for you..

 

To all the players partaking in a group and winning the event, you can roll however you please.

 

Do not allow other group members to dictate how you roll, they are just trying to enhance their chances of winning.

 

You helped win, you deserve to roll on the loot.

 

 

 

So lets put that to use then. Your in a restaurant and you have just received your food. The waitress hands it over to you and you proceed to bury your face inches deep into the concoction - then, violently jerking your head back in forth, you effectively coat all members of the table in a thick drape of the said food you were eating.

 

But hey, you payed for it so you deserve to be able to do things like that. Besides, the only reason people didn't want you to throw food all over they're bodies was so they could enhance they're chances of having an enjoyable evening.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Elyons

[Breeti]

I sense this will be the LFG issue of SWTOR.

 

People are going to want to have the best for their companions because there is such a large solo aspect when questing and companions are needed lest you die .

 

Call em ninja's, but if they aren't selling it but are using it the powers that be probably will say..working as intended.

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

I sense this will be the LFG issue of SWTOR.

 

People are going to want to have the best for their companions because there is such a large solo aspect when questing and companions are needed lest you die .

 

Call em ninja's, but if they aren't selling it but are using it the powers that be probably will say..working as intended.

Because it will be Working as Intended

 

I fear that people will be accused of Ninjaing just because the win a loot roll, because that's how "Hardcore, Pro-Games" roll...

 

This debate is boring, because the two sides will never agree and the continued bickering is just diversive.

 

Wanna stop this? Simple, AGREE LOOTING TERMS BEFORE YOU START...

[Starwaster]

I worry about the future of MMO players when the majority of posters here seem to be supporting the 'need for companions' idea. If people don't come first in your view and you can rationalise taking something from someone as 'personal use' then I pity you, or actually I pity your RL friends. If you have any.

 

A companion is a computer generated non-player character that has no feelings or desires. A person, on the other hand, does, and when that person is able to win a piece of gear that would significantly enhance his character then he gets a little excited. Then you come along, a person who can't use it but whose companion can, and takes that item from him claiming that you can use it.

 

No, you can't use, your soulless unfeeling binary generated npc can use it. You've just hurt someones feelings over greed and the complete lack of consideration for your fellow man. Way to go!

 

A person can't use items anyway. The character is what uses the items. And the companion is part of the character. It doesn't matter what little tab I'm on when I equip it. If I can go to the companion tab and be able to equip the item then that's good enough. I'm not always in groups, sometimes I'm soloing and when I solo, the companion needs decent gear equipped. People aren't entitled to not have their feelings hurt.

[Gagelish]

A few things to add to this discussion. I think they're pretty reasonable, but we'll see.

 

First, to the people arguing the semantics of whether the Assassin in the original post is a, "ninja" or if his ability to roll and win makes him simply greedy: I understand that by definition being able to roll precludes him from being a ninja. A ninja is someone who by some means unilaterally takes an item without any opportunity for competition from his group mates. That being said, I think we all know what the people using the terms interchangeably mean, and pointing it out every 8 or 9 posts is just derailing the (arguably) productive discussion. If its a pet peeve of yours, I think you'll get a much more positive response by sending a polite and informative PM. You can even save yourself a little time. Write a nice summation of the difference between this assassin and a ninja, post it here once, and if anyone manages to miss it just copy and paste it to them in a PM.

 

Second, I've read most but not all of this thread so there is a chance this has been answered and if so I'd really appreciate a PM with the details from anyone with a minute to find and copy the information. If not, my question is this: Does a companion character's output grow at the same rate as a player's in relation to increases in its primary and secondary stats?

 

Companions have always been described in interviews with developers as close to a player character in capability but marginally weaker (I think the figure I've heard is 75-80% as effective as a PC). Because of this, I was under the impression that a player character received a greater increase in output from the same increase in primary or secondary stat

 

This is obviously a huge oversimplification, but it was my understanding that a PC's base damage, for instance, was calculated by something like Y(X) where, "Y" is a number comprised of base weapon damage, level, etc. and X is a multiplier derived from the sum total of the PC's primary stat.

 

By comparison, I thought Companion damage was calculated by (again, super simplified) Y(.75X). Where Y and X represent the same factors, but benefit gained from the stat multiplier plays a reduced role.

 

If this were the case, I think that the argument against rolling need PC versus Companion would have a much stronger case. If a Companion's benefit from stats is somehow diminished as compared to a PC it would be my opinion that PC's should always have precedence over a Companion for gear. If the same total stat points would always increase a PC's output more than a Companion's then to my mind the PC is receiving greater benefit and should be given priority.

 

Conversely, if Companions and PC's have the same rate of return on stat benefits I think that although it might, "Feel wrong" to give a Companion equal priority it's probably the fairest way to do things.

 

Does anyone have any information on this? Less benefit from stats always seemed to me like the obvious way to gate companion effectiveness, but now that I've thought about it, it could be anything from lower base values for abilities to a slower progress curve from leveling to a combination of factors including the disadvantage of not having a real person able to intelligently select each able as the encounter develops.

 

I imagine without a combat log this might be kind of difficult to test, but not impossible to get a somewhat accurate sense of the role stats play in output PC versus Companion.

 

Third, and finally, as so many others have said this problem can be completely avoided with a little effort from some or all of the group to clarify how loot priority will be handled.

 

To be completely honest, I think that responsibility lies more with someone planning to roll need for there companion than not. The precedent from other games in the genre is clear: Need is for an upgrade that the character you're playing at that moment will immediately benefit from. Companions are a new element in MMO's and as I mentioned earlier the idea of a companion winning an item over a PC (no matter how logical and convincing the argument) just, "Feels wrong". As the game and population grow I'm sure companion ettiquette will evolve right along with it and eventually there will be a more or less accepted way of handling things, but until that time people are going to expect loot to be handled in a way similar to past games they've played. If you roll need for your companion without first clearing that with your group I think they have every right to be pissed at you and many people are simply using the lack of agreed upon procedure to justify bad behavior.

 

Holey Moley! That was so much longer than I thought it would be. Thoughts anyone?

[Slashzorz]

Easy solution would be if BW added roll for companion-option, that would allways come after main character rolls. At the same time they should do so that if you roll for yourself, you couldn't actually give it to your companion after that.

 

completely agree

[Perderedeus]

He didn't ninja, he lootwhored.

 

There's a fundamental difference, but both are pretty impolite. They're also part-and-parcel with MMOs, so get used to it.

 

I'll impart a little story about how involved lootwhoring can be. In the Other Huge MMO out there right now, you can randomly group with people and raid content. You can also bring a group of your own into this mix, say, 4 people. Those 4 people can then roll Need on items that drop and freely pass them to you, greatly increasing your odds to get loot. People are doing this frequently, where groups of friends effectively conspire to screw over strangers to gear up their "bro" in a setting without any accountability.

 

Yep. Leave it to MMO players to find a way to hose their fellow players in any way possible.

[Sogno]

So since everyone gets companions that use the various combinations of stats by your logic everyone should roll need on everything.

 

You, sir, are the reason why I don't PuG.

 

 

Exactly. I never roll on an item if it is clearly for a class that is in the group. The character that can use the gear should be present to win, IMO... as in contributing to the run.

[BlueRahja]

Eloquent wall of text, worth going back and reading all of

 

I enjoyed reading your argument. I thought it was very well written and based specifically on the current state of the game. I do support your right to roll need on everything you see. I do believe though that we enter an unwritten social contract when we enter a non-groupfinder group. That is a group assembled through social channels in the game to achieve a common goal, typically the completion of a flashpoint.

 

This social contract implies a few things, such as a willingness to do our part, be it tanking, healing or dps to the best of our abilities. An intent to actually complete said dungeon, barring unexpected social or real life requirements to the contrary, and to treat each other with mutual respect while doing so.

 

I think its the last part, the implied mutual respect that people feel is being breached. Not so much in the rolling need on companion gear. But in waiting for the loot to drop before just rolling need.

 

Now while a group is forming, loot really should be discussed. This and many other threads on the same subject seem to show how important an issue it seems to be to so many people. But waiting around not saying anything on purpose, knowing you are going to do something that you know will upset a reasonably large population of the game, is at its core dishonest. Even if the rest of the group failed to say "We are rolling need for our characters only", you are still breaching the social contracts mutual respect by hiding your intent until the moment you get what you want.

 

I am still fairly certain this is the core of the argument. People feel like they aren't being treated with consideration. So, roll need on everything you see. But be honest about it up front. If you find you aren't getting enough groups, you might be in a minority, and have to adjust the way you do things, or, to counter, you might find there were people interested in trying things your way, and start to change how people think.

 

Its a new game, we just have to respect one another for it to be enjoyable for everyone.

[SlimsPicken]

It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion. Companions are part of the game so you might want to just get used to that fact. I know I won't hesitate even for a second to need on a item for my companions.

 

And congratulations. You are an idiot.

 

Need is for player characters. I have 5 companions who span the range of nearly every single gear type. So, what, I NEED on every drop? No.

 

Wise up.

[kentk]

The community in this game is 80% WOW players. Save your breath.

 

Fix'd that little glitch for you.

 

Sorry, but The standard rule should be IMMEDIATE spec gets the need. After that it would be polite to ask.

 

The people in this thread thinking they can need for their companions are greedy imo. By this logic I can need on everything because all my companions need gear as do my alts. And don't tell me this is a weak argument. We've all seen it before. "Hey brah, can I need on that, my alt needs that for his healing set."

 

I seriously hate what WoW has done to the MMOs.