People who ninja for their companions

[Pyrelin]

It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion. Companions are part of the game so you might want to just get used to that fact. I know I won't hesitate even for a second to need on a item for my companions.

 

how wrong you are is disgusting.

[Vydor_HC]

I enjoyed reading your argument. I thought it was very well written and based specifically on the current state of the game. I do support your right to roll need on everything you see. I do believe though that we enter an unwritten social contract when we enter a non-groupfinder group. That is a group assembled through social channels in the game to achieve a common goal, typically the completion of a flashpoint.

 

This social contract implies a few things, such as a willingness to do our part, be it tanking, healing or dps to the best of our abilities. An intent to actually complete said dungeon, barring unexpected social or real life requirements to the contrary, and to treat each other with mutual respect while doing so.

 

I think its the last part, the implied mutual respect that people feel is being breached. Not so much in the rolling need on companion gear. But in waiting for the loot to drop before just rolling need.

 

Now while a group is forming, loot really should be discussed. This and many other threads on the same subject seem to show how important an issue it seems to be to so many people. But waiting around not saying anything on purpose, knowing you are going to do something that you know will upset a reasonably large population of the game, is at its core dishonest. Even if the rest of the group failed to say "We are rolling need for our characters only", you are still breaching the social contracts mutual respect by hiding your intent until the moment you get what you want.

 

I am still fairly certain this is the core of the argument. People feel like they aren't being treated with consideration. So, roll need on everything you see. But be honest about it up front. If you find you aren't getting enough groups, you might be in a minority, and have to adjust the way you do things, or, to counter, you might find there were people interested in trying things your way, and start to change how people think.

 

Its a new game, we just have to respect one another for it to be enjoyable for everyone.

 

Good post, very nicely said.

 

The definition of need should be defined in each instance of a new group, since it's clearly not universal. This game has different concepts than older ones.

[Siorac]

The problem with rolling need for companion is that they might as well do away with the greed button; every class gets every kind of companion so they can use any kind of gear that drops.

 

Nice smuggler headgear? Great, Doc will love it. Awesome double-bladed lightsaber? Let me give it to Kira! An assault cannon? Rusk will kiss my feet for it. Nice tanking implant? T7 will put it to good use.

 

So yes, I do consider it impolite if someone rolls need for a piece of gear their character can't use, without any discussion on the subject beforehand. Companions can be geared decently from solo quest rewards, no need to argue over the loot of group content because of them.

[Pinguaq]

ZOMG, there are only 2 million+ players in this MMO and some of them play differently than I do. I'M TELLING (or at last whining incessantly)!!

 

If the thing is suppose to be automated by pure logic, there would be no need to prompt us irrational end users. How difficult do you think it would be to add:

 

if ((item is_equipable) && (item > is_equipped)) {

Give option to roll need, greed or pass

} else {

Give option to roll greed or pass

}

 

I wouldn't condone NEEDing everything that would improve that slot of ANY companion, but if I see something my main companion really needs that I've been unable to find, (e.g. a great tech blade for Qyzen) I will need it in a heart beat. You see, the thing is, I know what I need. That's right, I may even know what I need better than you know what I need. I know this will be a leap for some for you, but it's true, so take your time with it.

 

Roll NEED on everything, just finds you 3 more people that think you're a dick and wont group with you anymore.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Pinguaq

[LogicalPremise]

I think some people need to get out of the WoW mentality and get into the SWTOR mentality. Companions use the same gear as player characters. What is the problem with rolling need for a companion? My friends and I do it when we group together, it is called adapting to the game that you are playing. This is not WoW, this is a different MMO with different rules and design. Everybody has a companion and they use they to play the game.

 

Some old fashioned ideas here, ideas that do not apply to this game.

 

The "problem" with it, is , and this is still in testing, putting those items on the companion don't appear to give most of them much of, if any, actual hard improvements in dps, healing, or survivability.

 

If a companion gets a +2% increase from greens and a +%3 from purples, but a PC gets a +5% from greens and a +10% from purples, not only is the PC being "robbed" but the actual utility to the person gearing their companion is so minimal that it doesn't even matter.

 

It would be one thing if , without blues and purps, solo leveling was hard and companions were useless. But that isn't the case, and people acting like this is some need just as valid as that of PC's are making things up.

[Pythoris]

And congratulations. You are an idiot.

 

Need is for player characters. I have 5 companions who span the range of nearly every single gear type. So, what, I NEED on every drop? No.

 

Wise up.

 

Didn't take long for you to resort to namecalling, did it?

 

Tel me, where is this rule written that need is only for player characters? Is it in the contract to play swtor? Will BW ban you if you're found needing for companions? Is it a law somewhere?

 

Hint: If you have to say NO to all three of those questions, then that "rule" about needing only for player characters is more like a simple guuideline some people, like yourself, follow. Not everyone follows the exact same guidelines, nor do they have to.

[tcalusine]

just because its not a hard coded rule doesn't mean you cant exercise some decency, common sense and sensitivity to other players in YOUR community.

 

I bet most of these people who cant find groups in flashpoints are blackisted jerks like you. I never have an issue with grouping and make friends with them afterwards for more fun raids later.

[bboudreaux]

It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion. Companions are part of the game so you might want to just get used to that fact. I know I won't hesitate even for a second to need on a item for my companions.

 

If the companion is not present in the group then it's a HUGE NO NO.

 

From what you are saying is, it's also ok to roll need for alts

 

Can't wait to see you spam chat about being kicked from groups for needing items for your companion

[bboudreaux]

Didn't take long for you to resort to namecalling, did it?

 

Tel me, where is this rule written that need is only for player characters? Is it in the contract to play swtor? Will BW ban you if you're found needing for companions? Is it a law somewhere?

 

Hint: If you have to say NO to all three of those questions, then that "rule" about needing only for player characters is more like a simple guuideline some people, like yourself, follow. Not everyone follows the exact same guidelines, nor do they have to.

 

By your definition it's ok to roll need for alts then

[Pythoris]

just because its not a hard coded rule doesn't mean you cant exercise some decency, common sense and sensitivity to other players in YOUR community.

 

I bet most of these people who cant find groups in flashpoints are blackisted jerks like you. I never have an issue with grouping and make friends with them afterwards for more fun raids later.

 

lol Oh please do step down off your soapbox.

 

So all of a sudden it's "indecent" to need for companions. Why? Because it doesn't go by your guidelines? Wanna know what's really indecent? Expecting everyone to play the same way you do, instead of getting in groups that agree to the same guidelines that you go by.

 

News flash: The MMO universe does not revolve around your style of play. Try researching the groups guidelines on looting before you group up with them. I promise you'll have a much easier time.

[profaneascension]

Tel me, where is this rule written that need is only for player characters? Is it in the contract to play swtor? Will BW ban you if you're found needing for companions? Is it a law somewhere?

 

Hint: If you have to say NO to all three of those questions, then that "rule" about needing only for player characters is more like a simple guuideline some people, like yourself, follow. Not everyone follows the exact same guidelines, nor do they have to.

 

There's no rule in real life that you have to hold the door open for someone walking behind you. There are no written rules for a lot of things that people do out of simple decency. And yeah, I think playing an MMO is part of "real life" because, after all, even though you're dealing with anonymous strangers on the Internet, you're still dealing with living, breathing people behind the controls.

 

And by the way, he may have called you a name, but you also didn't answer his question.

[Caille]

I hate the fact that it is becoming an issue.

 

And so to solve it, we went back to posted loot rules at a run's beginning.

 

"Need before greed, Need precedence is taken by player characters, Need for your primary companion comes before Greed, everyone state the name and gear type of your primary companion in chat please. You should not be rolling need on anything a player needs, if no player needs it Primary companion Needs are next, finally if no one needs it, Greed it. Please wait until a player who can use an item has said they do not need it before Needing for a companion. You can only need for your declared primary companion, please type AGREE in caps in chat if you understand this"

 

 

And as a secondary measure, I do not PUG a player in a guild group if I do not have to. But the above really covers how we handle ourselves in ventrilo. Player > Primary Companion > Greed/Other companions.

 

 

Is it a PITA, yes, but companions are a part of character progression for better or worse. At least for solo questing and some Heroic situations or Normal flashpoints.

 

Stated loot rules are the safest, easiest, oldest, most tried and true way to prevent issues. Chat logs also give Developers an easier recourse in the event of issues.

 

 

 

Alexis

*smiles*

[Pythoris]

There's no rule in real life that you have to hold the door open for someone walking behind you. There are no written rules for a lot of things that people do out of simple decency. And yeah, I think playing an MMO is part of "real life" because, after all, even though you're dealing with anonymous strangers on the Internet, you're still dealing with living, breathing people behind the controls.

 

And by the way, he may have called you a name, but you also didn't answer his question.

 

Oh, I answered his question in a way. You simply didn't pay close enough attention to what I said. Also, calling names is what children and grown-ups who aren't mature enough to express themselves with intelligent conversation resort to. Ad, given the fact that he expects people to play the way he wants them to play or else he'll stick his bottom lip out and cry "unfair", I'm frankly not surprised to see him resort to such a tactic. Also, he didn't call me a name, he called someone else a name. More proof you didn't pay close enough attention.

 

Needing for companions or alts is not "unfair". Your alts need items too. Your comps need items too. If you have a problem with people needing for alts or comps, then here's a simple, logical solution. It really doesn't even take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

 

Try getitng in a group that agrees aginst needing for anyone except player characters. Yes, it might take an extra amount of effort on your part, but it's not hard. Heck, I've done it myself before, and I'm not exactly a genius. All it takes is the ability to think, plan, and calculate, for pete's sake.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Pythoris

[tcalusine]

lol Oh please do step down off your soapbox.

 

So all of a sudden it's "indecent" to need for companions. Why? Because it doesn't go by your guidelines? Wanna know what's really indecent? Expecting everyone to play the same way you do, instead of getting in groups that agree to the same guidelines that you go by.

 

News flash: The MMO universe does not revolve around your style of play. Try researching the groups guidelines on looting before you group up with them. I promise you'll have a much easier time.

 

Overwhelmingly most people in game on my server feel and act EXACTLY as I do and nobody has any issues. I dont scream, rant, annoy people who dont follow this set of decent and friendly rules. I just boot them after explaining why.

 

I never expected everybody to agree and follow, there will always be faceless internet jerks who troll and do as they please but I wont let it stop me and other decent players from having fun.

 

Just know that when people boot you, scold you, or otherwise try to correct you. You brought it apon yourslef and don't come back here complaing about not finiding groups or getting booted mid flashpoint.

[iacchius]

You probably shouldn't have stopped reading though. The advice given was sound.

 

It was not sound. There is no /roll option so masterloot it pointless. How would you decide which of the agents actually got it?

[tcalusine]

There's no rule in real life that you have to hold the door open for someone walking behind you. There are no written rules for a lot of things that people do out of simple decency. And yeah, I think playing an MMO is part of "real life" because, after all, even though you're dealing with anonymous strangers on the Internet, you're still dealing with living, breathing people behind the controls.

 

 

and yeah, if you dont think my post was good enough because I called the jerk a jerk, then take this persons quote as truth because this is what is all about.

 

companions ARE NOT essential, if you need to gear them 100%, go to the GTN. Don't steal loot drops from other PLAYER characters that can put them to good use.

[profaneascension]

(Stuff about me not paying attention.)

 

Rather than get embroiled in a pointless flamewar with you, let's focus on his question rather than his name-calling. This was the question he asked:

 

Need is for player characters. I have 5 companions who span the range of nearly every single gear type. So, what, I NEED on every drop?

 

Therein lies the crux of the matter. I don't care whether it's fair to roll Need for your alts. It's up to the court of public opinion and beside the point. The problem is that we all have five different companions that have various gear requirements, which means you're entitled to roll Need every time an item drops.

 

So, is the answer yes, or no?

[tcalusine]

i vote a big and obvious NO to the above.

 

It would make it a broken system.

Edited January 16, 2012 by tcalusine

[Nightfox_]

Need is intended by default for actual players only.

[JediMasterHope]

Then you would be a jerk, because you don't need that specific piece of gear.

 

I agree, but I was actually expecting an answer from Setanian. Since he says it's ok to need on everything.

[Abanoth]

I'm finding the return of ninjaing in this game quite nostalgic.

[RagnarokJC]

I'm finding the return of ninjaing in this game quite nostalgic.

Ninja-looting isn't all that common in this game from what I've seen. The only instances I saw came from playing on the Sith side, as that faction has attracted the largest number of immature players. Like this one *****hole I put onto my blacklist because he rolled need on medium armor even though he was playing a BH.

[Draugauth]

The whole concept of Need Before Greed or NGB is that if the toon actually there can use the item and it is an upgrade then it is need. If not then it is greed.

 

That sith assassin is a douche bag for rolling on an item that is NOT for his class. Greed is the way of the douche bag and those that support greed show that they are douche bags as well.

 

 

Companions are not a part of your overall character. Otherwise you could use them in Warzones, ops, etc. But you can't. Now granted you can use them in some FP's but in all honesty for that to work well you have already out leveled that FP anyways.

 

Now IF say it was a H2 quest and both party members were using companions. Then yes logically they could call need for the companions as the companions actually provided some benefit. But then it kinda ties into my very first sentence.

[Eldren]

No matter how much people attempt to moralize this away by saying players should always come before companions, the fundamental reality of the loot distribution system remains: Need is there if you're going to use the item, Greed is there if you're going to sell it or otherwise not make use of it as an upgrade.

 

Companions are an additional set of upgrade slots that are attached to your character. They aren't an alt, they aren't a guild member, they're part of your character. Common sense would dictate that you only bother upgrading the two you use most of the time (some only use one most of the time), but it doesn't remove the reality that every single companion is an upgrade path, and if a particular player decides they want all their companions upgraded, that's their right, and no one has the right to tell them differently, or attempt to exert social pressure to the contrary.

 

As a result, NBG isn't an optimal system for this particular game. Roll/Pass would remove the drama altogether, but people would still complain about not getting as much gear. Companion loot boxes attached to each boss that use the intelligent loot system quests currently use to generate an upgrade for a companion attached to the player who won the box would be an option, but would only mollify the anti-companion crowd if all loot outside that, in FPs at least, had a class requirement attached to keep people from equipping their companions with it.

 

Until that comes about however (if it ever does), NBG makes for a system where companions are valid upgrade paths whose acquisitions are subject to the opportunities the players get for loot. People try to make it about what "should" be done, when the reality is there are people who are doing what can be done.

 

Loot is amoral. So is its distribution system. Attempting to attach moral significance to it is pointless. Attempting to attach moral significance to it in an attempt to force others' behavior is both pathetic and hypocritical, since I'd hazard a guess that the underlying motivation for this particular behavior is to simply improve one's own chances of getting loot by not having their probabilities diluted by others' additional upgrade options via companions.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion.

 

Yes it is.