Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1

[herb]

TL;DR: Fancy words for ‘we nerfed BioChem and Cybertech endgame products’ because they were so good that players started considering them mandatory. Your choice of profession is not supposed to be the deciding factor for participation and success in endgame content.

 

It is only Mandatory because you made it that way; you added "Requires Biochem (x)" to use. For the purple versions of course. So to use the best stims I have to be Biochem.

 

Remove: Requires Biochem to use. So everyone can use it.

[jeepoverland]

As some of you may have already noticed from our patch notes for Game Update 1.1, we’ve made adjustments to several high-end, purple, player crafted items on the BioChem and Cybertech professions. Simply put, we reduced their overall impact on gameplay and I wanted to explain why it was necessary.

 

 

BioChem crafted medical kits were too good. In fact, they were too good both in the amount of healing they provided (often more than half a character’s health) and the frequency they could be used (every 90 seconds!). This was negatively impacting the game for everyone else. We’ve seen significant chatter both in and out of game about how players not picking up the BioChem professions would be ‘stupid’ and ‘gimping themselves’. This indicates that a small number of competitive players have been denying access to high end content based on whether a player has the BioChem Crew Skill.

 

 

Cybertech grenades, especially when stacked with additional power-ups and other temporary buffs, were creating combat damage burst potential higher than we were comfortable with and caused player versus player engagements in the game to resolve faster than intended. In fact we have additional changes to classes and consumables currently in internal testing to deal with faster than anticipated kill times in player versus player combat in a future patch.

 

 

 

The design intent for the game is that your choice of crafting profession should not become a requirement or ‘gating’ mechanism for participating in competitive content (PvP) and high end endgame challenges. While we certainly want players that engage in the crafting game to reap rewards for their effort, we don’t want one or two crafting professions to become the de facto ‘must have’ choice for everyone, which is what happened here.

 

 

We are extremely careful with this type of change, and understand that it can be frustrating for our players when we make them. Please understand, we make these changes not because we like to mess with your character, but because they are required to ensure a level and fun playing field for all players of the game.

 

At the same time, we understand that people that changed their profession because of the events described above will likely be unhappy about these changes – and while it’s easy to say ‘that’s how it goes in MMOs’, making modifications like this is something we’re always cautious about doing. At the same time, both player feedback and the data gathered from hundreds of servers made it very clear that this issue needed to be dealt with decisively now with only a small minority of players at endgame level and the vast majority of our characters in their 20s to minimize the number of affected players.

 

 

TL;DR: Fancy words for ‘we nerfed BioChem and Cybertech endgame products’ because they were so good that players started considering them mandatory. Your choice of profession is not supposed to be the deciding factor for participation and success in endgame content. We still believe that BioChem and Cybertech are very worthwhile Crew Skills, especially considering the significant fortune players with these professions are able to realize on the GTN... they are however no longer the ‘golden ticket’ into endgame content.

 

FAIL DECISION. You should have buffed up the other craft skills more, not just nerfed cyber and bio....now ALL your crafts feel useless.

[Cubert]

It is only Mandatory because you made it that way; you added "Requires Biochem (x)" to use. For the purple versions of course. So to use the best stims I have to be Biochem.

 

Remove: Requires Biochem to use. So everyone can use it.

 

No. The blue stims that don't require biochem, last two hours and through death are easily attainable. They're not as good as the rakata's, of course, but they're good enough. The bottom line is other crew skills need some love. Making the end game items other crewskills can make require, for instance, "Synthweaving 400" isn't love either. They need something that's worthwhile. Not something replaced in one hard mode flashpoint run.

[ryansithkiller]

what is beta?

[Mashy]

Massive LOL @ "Stupid" and "Gimping themselves"

[ticklefist]

I have serious doubts about the brain trust that thinks this will make other crew skills more attractive.

[mrwillie]

So is this the current design philosophy, nerf the fun out of everything the PVPers cry about?.

[Aethyrprime]

Hello all,

 

Quick addendum to Georg's post.

 

PvP overcharge consumable was meant to share a cooldown with adrenals and not stack with the power ups you can run over to pick up in Warzone maps. So players stacking all three were reaching combat numbers higher than intended, which is why we will be changing that in 1.1.

 

Additionally, we will continue to monitor and tune crafting professions to ensure they are in line with combat targets and toward the goal of keeping them viable in end game but not mandatory for participation. Currently there are several Armormech, Armstech, Synthweaving and Artifice recipes that can be found in end game content. We will be adding more in future updates.

 

-Gabe

 

If you haven't yet please look at the suggestion in my signature which has a decent amount of community support for it. Thanks! I look forward to seeing the rest of the crewskills boosted up to useful!

[MorgonKara]

I guess I'm not really seeing how this will fix things. The Biochem reusable items will still basically grant healing and buff abilities that you can only get by having that crew skill.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I understand it; The best endgame gear (armor, weapons, jewelry etc) is either loot drops or bartered with commendations except the unlimited buff and healing abilities you get from endgame Biochem crafts. So why do I need to have any other skill than Biochem at endgame?

Edited January 16, 2012 by MorgonKara

[RuckusFivefinger]

Why don't you make it so anything a crafter can make can be traded/sold to others? That way it is balanced for everyone who wants these "overpowered" Items X and Y?

[Vetorept]

Rakata Stims and Med Pacs require Biometric Crystal Alloy, which is a standard raid drop or HM Flashpoint drop. I spent 2 days and 250k to level Biochem from 1-400 because Synthweaving is useless and I never used it.

 

Now I find out that I can't make the only 2 items I planned on using since I am a pvp'r. I haven't done any flashpoints and am not in a raid guild. I find killing NPC's trivial and boring. Now I'm sure someone will say: just hop in a pug HM, but how many of those and how many rolls will I have to do to get my alloy? Too many.

 

To have this crafting item locked behind PVE penalizes pvp'rs I feel. You can be sure that if there were a necessary crafting item locked behind PVP the pve'rs would be howling mad. Make them available for an insane amount of commendations, I don't care, there needs to be a pvp path to these.

 

As much as I hate it when people bring up that other game, orbs and such that were needed for crafting were able to be bought with marks, aside from being PVE drops. Please consider this Bioware.

 

I'm not interested in being OP or healing myself with the med pac. I want the stim that persists through death more than anything.

[Tusangre]

To have this crafting item locked behind PVE penalizes pvp'rs I feel. You can be sure that if there were a necessary crafting item locked behind PVP the pve'rs would be howling mad. Make them available for an insane amount of commendations, I don't care, there needs to be a pvp path to these.

 

This exactly, killing hard mode bosses is so boring to me and the flashpoints are way too long for a 1 in 4 chance of getting this material to interest me in the slightest. That being said, I got my guild to drag me through a fp and get me one, but there is no way that should have been required.

 

The funny part is they closed the thread asking for this and directed you here but didn't address the lack of biometric crystal alloy from pvp; makes me think they didn't even read that thread before they closed it...

Edited January 16, 2012 by Tusangre

[darthtoph]

So is this the current design philosophy, nerf the fun out of everything the PVPers cry about?.

 

Picked up Biochem the other day and sticking with it, the only thing that really got nerfed here anyway is crappy players. Don't see the problem.

[lollie]

Don't see the problem.

 

..."the problem" is that all crafting skills are crappy at endgame, and even through the levelling process, and are basically just moneysinks with no payoff.

Edited January 16, 2012 by lollie

[darthtoph]

That's true but we're talking about the nerf here - as if it really was one.

 

Biochem is, like you say, still the way to go - it is still superior to all other crafts. If Bioware truly cared about balancing the crafting professions, they wouldn't just nerf, they would look at the others and try to boost them to be competitive/desired.

 

Atm, all endgame gear that is worth anything is acquired from either PvP vendors or in Operations. Nothing Synthweavers/Armormech/Artificers could craft would be of any interest to me, and that's a problem. Like many, Biochem wasn't my first crew skill.

 

Daily Commendation vendor offers tend to sell 'level 51' or higher Armorings/Hilts when most crafters can only go up to 22. See the problem?

 

But it ain't one for peeps who picked up Biochem. Even with the introduction of this so-called 'nerf' it is still the superior crew skill. So yeah, I 'don't see the problem' when peeps QQ about the 'nerf.'

Edited January 16, 2012 by darthtoph

[lollie]

I 'don't see the problem' when peeps QQ about the 'nerf.'

 

..."the problem" is that BioWare seems to not understand how to balance crafting, and resorts to kneejerk nerfs.

[TheCheatz]

The problem, which has been fleshed out in great detail in a few threads on the Test forum, is that these "nerfs" do nothing to fix Biochem's superiority for PvE content and actually makes it MORE required than before the changes. Exo-Tech doesn't require Biochem right now, but it's not possible to craft them either.

 

All they had to do was fix Exo-Tech schematics and non-Biochemists would get decent consumables while the Biochemists would still have a slight advantage (and a market to sell to). Instead, they make Exo-Tech require Biochem, making a gap of roughly 25% between Biochem and non-Biochem consumables that no other crew skill can even come close to matching in any way, since raid/PvP gear is superior to all crafted gear.

Edited January 16, 2012 by TheCheatz

[ArmoredJuneBug]

Pardon me for injecting roleplay as a possible deciding factor while playing a MMOR(ole)P(lay)G.

Not if you're going to ask for the game being balanced around it, no.

I'm fine with items that require certain crewskill to use it - let's say that certain stims are injected in so complicate way that it requires someone with medical (biochem 400) knowledge to use it but NOTHING should be bound to it's creator.

Problem with that is easily seen already, since the GTN on the servers I play on usually carry artifact (reusable) Biochem craftables. These aren't BoP but do require Biochem to use.

 

Why should I, as a budding Biochemist, spend credits and materials - especially rare materials which I might not have the appropriate crew skill to gather - trying to learn these schematics when I can just buy the end result and spend my resources leveling up the skill instead?

 

Anyway, BoP items don't 'fix' crafting - right now crafting is pretty lackluster overall - but removing such perks pretty effectively breaks it by removing incentive.

 

There's a difference.

So is this the current design philosophy, nerf the fun out of everything the PVPers cry about?.

Don't make this a PvP issue, it's not.

 

Certainly, the stacking buffs and consumables were a more serious issue in PvP but this is a game balance concern.

 

Of course one could argue that these change doesn't fix all of those game balance concerns, or that it even exacerbates some of them, and I'd likely agree. That's an entirely different problem, however.

The best endgame gear (armor, weapons, jewelry etc) is either loot drops or bartered with commendations except the unlimited buff and healing abilities you get from endgame Biochem crafts. So why do I need to have any other skill than Biochem at endgame?

^This.

 

Non-Biochemists need self-craftables that offer some BiS incentives to keep around, as well as less competition from quest and vendor gear.

[bjbm]

So instead of taking the harder, more correct route, and making the other craft skills more useful endgame, or heck, revamp the entire crappy linear crafting system, you took the easy way out and put on a nerf bandaid for a broken system.

 

Bravo!!

[xngxng]

Where are these patch notes?

 

The game update page just gives me a "Buy this game one more time"-button, and the patch notes page only have old notes.

[IasonEvan]

Why do you have to have 400 in bio to use them? Why not make them so they can be sold to any player? Why is there an infinite use item?

 

Georg, I saw how you referenced Chocolate Factory with the "golden ticket" thing. Look what happened to all the people trying to get their hands on the everlasting gobbstoppers in Chocolate Factory. They all got greedy because they wanted it for themselves. Make them a consumable that anyone can use. same goes for the grenades.

[Valcutio]

So crybabies win and the only useful crafting prof gets nerfed instead of Bioware putting in the work to buff up the other crafting tradeskills.

 

Great.

[Quintan]

It really seems like BW is really heading down the wrong path with almost every decision they make.

[bjbm]

Bioware's new slogan should be:

 

"The only MMO to have two serious nerfs in the first month"

 

or

 

"Bioware : where the only way out, is the easiest way out"

[Kabloosh]

But the cooldown on grenades is still 5 minutes?

 

We've been saying on the forums that it is far too long. If you are reducing the damage anyway, how about balancing them around a shorter cooldown, as well?

 

We currently cannot reverse engineer grenades, even though the UI lets us try. Is the bug that they show up as RE-able, or that doing it doesn't work?

 

What about the other crew skills? I think the key problem is that with the exception of Biochem and Cybertech, they don't offer anything that can't be achieved through other means. People want something unique from their crew skills; something that makes them say, "Yeah, I get to use this because I've got X skill!" and consumables are a good way to do that because there are many ways to get equipment.

 

What this guy said.

 

You can nerf biochem to the ground all you want but an reusable heal every minute 30 and a reusable stim that persists through death is infinitely better than useless craftable epic gear that is inferior to easily obtainable end game gear.