Elyons Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The point was it doesn't even matter what my class is. The combat/spell system is beyond convoluted across all the classes. Mostly only Smugglers/IA's. Just simply L2P your class and everything works out, not everything is easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You're playing a stealth melee/skirmish/healer hybrid, and think 30 skills are too much? You cover three separate roles, all at once, with those abilities. 3 separate roles? Which 3? DPS/Heal. 1/2. And, I have listed 3 healing skills. 3. I disagree with some of your keybind choices as being necessary for ultimate 100% efficiency (speeder? really?), but even with those you're only at 30 right now. Which is what I said. 30 abilities requiring keybinds with no ability to macro is utterly ridiculous. Assuming you don't have a super-mouse (hot tip: most people don't), you are controlling those 30 abilities with 3 fingers, because 2 will be controlling movement most of the time. And, as I said, I am level 31. At level 50, the number expands to 36 at minimum. How many more are to come with content expansion? If you have to click on your speeder after every single fight you do from level 25 to level 50 and beyond, you will waste hours of your life in the time you play SWTOR. The irony of the comment is not lost on me, however its likely that you WANT to spend your time playing swtor, not moving your mouse to your speeder icon. Edited January 13, 2012 by Delekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyons Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) If you have to click on your speeder after every single fight you do from level 25 to level 50 and beyond, you will waste hours of your life in the time you play SWTOR. Wow... I think it's time you take a LONG break from this game and the Forums Edited January 13, 2012 by Elyons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whash Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Mostly only Smugglers/IA's.It's not just them. It's all the classes that have multiple roles and ranges. And it's only "convoluted if you're continuing to use abilities that are meant for other roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow... I think it's time you take a LONG break from this game and the Forums I think it's time you argue with actual content and not ad hoc garbage. Make a point, or don't bother. L2P? You for real? Argue with words, not with baby talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's not just them. It's all the classes that have multiple roles and ranges. And it's only "convoluted if you're continuing to use abilities that are meant for other roles. No it isn't. Smugglers have 36 abilities that they SHOULD be using in end game across all content. That is not counting ones that are aimed at the other spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Every class in this game suffers from ability bloat and contributes to the whole "This would have been great in 2007" feeling. My 50 Jugg PvPs with 27 keybinds (not including buffs, consumables, guard, etc) and the game just launched. The real culprit is excessive cooldowns on spec abilities forcing you to use baseline class abilities as filler. When I'm level 50 and 31 point invested in a tree, the abilities I get should be more powerful/interesting nreplacements of some of my baseline skills, not merely additional. I'm a jugg that pvp's also, as well as sometimes tanks group content, and of course solos for credits/dailies/etc. Each type of play uses different abilities regularly. Do I use more than 20 abilities soloing? Not even close. But as they are different abilities than when tanking (well, tanking adds in 4 or 5 more to my soloing ones), and again even more are used in pvp, due to cooldowns and special case uses (and in PvP they all need to be handy), as well as 3 buttons covered up by the Voidstar map (so you can't put any rarely used ability that you may use in pvp on the top of the right hand bar), there's simply too many abilities/cooldowns/long timer abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanatik Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I got 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 crt - 1 2 3 4 5 F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 Will use alt keys next then ill use z x c as well. and im sure you dont need all of them. As a sorc I have melee crap but that was kicked off the board early. As my opperative though...abilities are a bit of a mess. Stealth should have a seperate bar just like Cover does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakos Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The UI shouldn't demand everyone become a keybinder in order to play effectively. I use a combo. I click when I'm lazy, but most of my things are bound for when I PvP. That said, If I ever wanted to let my brother step in or play for me for a while, it's just not happening. The default UI needs more hotbar space for those who prefer clicking (and whether or not you think they suck has no relevance to whether or not the option would be helpful to those players), and extending the bottom bars a few slots in either direction could go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddeth Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seriously? Read the post DIRECTLY above yours. I don't mean like, last page or anything. The one right above. It's right there. It's even about the exact same class as you. If you used 4 abilities regularly on a level 28, you are HORRIBLE AT THE CLASS. yea I'm bad because I don't need every trick in the book to take down a simple mob. ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 yea I'm bad because I don't need every trick in the book to take down a simple mob. ROFL You need every trick in the book to perform in every aspect of the game as efficiently and effectively as possible. That you can do it with less is neither here nor there; you can play basketball by walking on your knees, but people don't cheer you on for it. They call you an idiot, and watch the real players play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiEDeN Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 LOL @ OP Complaining that the combat is actually fun and engaging, offering multiple abilities and utilities to use dependent on the situation at hand. Convoluted? I guess his main was a Mage in WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanzaiChigau Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) That's 26 individual keybindings that I need be cognizant of and somehow work into a rotation just to take out silver mob. I can only imagine it gets even worse at higher levels. I think "convoluted" is the word I'm looking for. I very much doubt that using some skills which i'm sure have at least or more than a minute cooldown can be called a rotation. I don't know about the smuggler but a guardian doesn't have a "rotation" of 26 keys not even at lvl 50, the core skills of a rotation, if you can call it that...are like 6 or 7 at most, the rest are only situational skills like force push, force stasis, several stuns, etc, those are not part of any normal rotation whatsoever since they have long cooldowns. The difference on the number of skills from lvl 26 to 50 is not very big anyway so i wouldn't worry too much. Besides, having most of your core skills, and many of the utility skills by the mid levels offers a much richer PvP experience, and PvE aswell anyway, at least for me. Edited January 13, 2012 by BanzaiChigau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain_b Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Looking at my avatar would help. Why would anyone here assume you have an avater that mimics your class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxonLuxor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's 26 individual keybindings that I need be cognizant of and somehow work into a rotation just to take out silver mob. I can only imagine it gets even worse at higher levels. I think "convoluted" is the word I'm looking for. Smuggler is pretty straight forward - Open with Vital, go into cover, Aim Shot, Charged Shot, Quick Shot, Charge Shot, Sab Charge, Charge Shot, Aim Shot Of course there are different uses for the other skills like CC or interrupt but I literally only use like 5 - 6 in normal fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 use 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = and ur numpad so ... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 / * - .... and arrow keys in case u move with wasd. i have alot of more hotkeys to choose from too Wait.... You can use your numpad in addition to your regular number keys? I'm going to test this when I get home. And if it works, I'm nominating you for best human being in the history of mankind for letting me know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's 26 individual keybindings that I need be cognizant of and somehow work into a rotation just to take out silver mob. I can only imagine it gets even worse at higher levels. I think "convoluted" is the word I'm looking for. I'm pretty sure you don't have ANY spells, unless they're seriously screwing with the lore. I've made it to 30, and have had no problem playing (beating silver and gold mobs equal to my level) with just my most important abilites keybound to 1-10,-, and =., and mousing the rest. The bulk of them are so situational you don't need to spam them. Instead of trying to find a "rotation" that you can just bound over and over in each fight, why not consider the fight second-by-second and pick the best ability that's available right at that moment? So far, that's worked for me just fine. Maybe the fact I'm actually paying attention to the game and making decisions based on events happening around me keeps me from getting bored as easily as others seem to; I'd hate to play if all I did was type 1,3,Ctrl2,4,Alt5, repeat until mob dead, over and over and over... I mean, there's a few obvious formulas: Tight group = explosive dart followed by death from above, than focus fire on the most injured. Anyone gets close, use rocket blast. Keep an eye on companion and heal them, or heal myself if I have to. Etc. Overall, though, I just pick whatever seems like good option at the moment and use it, and I haven't had significant trouble advancing or getting through Heroics with a team. If the fight ends and I'm alive, I really I don't give a damn if I'm doing Total Ultimate Maximum Efficient Damage or not. Heal, let heat go down, move on to next group of mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enginer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 1 to 9 and Control 1 to 9! Really do not need more then that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizardSF Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You need every trick in the book to perform in every aspect of the game as efficiently and effectively as possible. That you can do it with less is neither here nor there; you can play basketball by walking on your knees, but people don't cheer you on for it. They call you an idiot, and watch the real players play. Just wondering... what prize do you get, exactly, for beating a mob in 2 seconds less than someone else? Is there an achievement? A title? An award? Do you honestly think anyone actually cares how "efficient" you are, or that you get more enjoyment out of the game by playing it in as rote and mechanistic a fashion as possible? You don't get bonus XP for killing mobs quickly. I've only encountered one timed quest, where speed does matter, in 30 levels of play... and even in that, I finished it with 5 minutes to go, so shaving a second or two off of each fight wouldn't have made the slightest difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Just wondering... what prize do you get, exactly, for beating a mob in 2 seconds less than someone else? Is there an achievement? A title? An award?Yes... I gain 2 seconds. And then for the next mob. And the next. And the one after that. And.... you get the point. I have 8 characters and ~150 odd levels; efficiency is my game. Furthermore, this increased efficiency/efficacy translates into more important fights; there are a number of hard mode fights that have tight dps timers in hard modes, especially on undergeared or newly 50 characters. Do you honestly think anyone actually cares how "efficient" you are, or that you get more enjoyment out of the game by playing it in as rote and mechanistic a fashion as possible?Many, MANY people care. Hence the thread. That you don't is neither here nor there - I am not asking you to play the way I play. You can click and ignore abilities to your heart's content and I will never know, but I play to be the best, and to be the best you need to use more buttons than is rational in this game. You don't get bonus XP for killing mobs quickly. I've only encountered one timed quest, where speed does matter, in 30 levels of play... and even in that, I finished it with 5 minutes to go, so shaving a second or two off of each fight wouldn't have made the slightest difference. Yes you do; you get to the next mob more quickly, and the next quest more quickly, and the next level more quickly, and the next character more quickly. You clearly didn't do very well at addition in school. Edited January 13, 2012 by Delekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arathea Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Do you honestly think anyone actually cares how "efficient" you are, or that you get more enjoyment out of the game by playing it in as rote and mechanistic a fashion as possible? Yes, I really do care about how efficient he, or rather, anyone is. If my healer isn't efficient enough, we die. If DPS isn't efficient enough, flashpoints or OPs take more of my time and bosses will enrage and we die. If I'm not efficient enough I'll loose aggro and we die. If my teammates aren't efficient enough in a warzone, we lose. When you are solo-questing you're welcome to play however you want. But if you want to engage in group-content, you better perform. I'm not saying casual gamer-sniper has to pull the same dps as 8 hours a day-sniper does, but you better not say "naw, i find it tedious with all these abilities, I stick to 2, that way I can play with only my mouse". In groupcontent, your efficiency or lack thereof affects other players, ofcourse they care. //Champion Qui-Thala Haera | Lvl 50 Assassin 25/0/16 Grand Theft Stardestroyer | EU Frostclaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaspraill Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 use 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = and ur numpad so ... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 / * - .... and arrow keys in case u move with wasd. i have alot of more hotkeys to choose from too ...... and keyboard turn while youre at it. Damn the playerbase in this game is casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patizor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 As a Jedi Guardian, I'd rather have a few really good abilities rather than an avalanche of mediocre ones. You'd think hitting someone with a lightsaber would be all a melee type needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Some of the suggestions for keybindings here are appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marneuscalgar Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) i use my mouse wheel and middle mouse button on my R.A.T 9 mouse thats 3 extra buttons that you can use add in the two thumb buttons thats 5 hotkeys. do you really need your camera zoom bound to your mouse wheel you throw in a shift modifier thats 10 hotkeys within easy access with one hand as shift is hardly outta the way. I also have Q,E,R,T and F bound to hotkeys coming from a FPS back ground using thoes keys is second nature to me. Edited January 13, 2012 by marneuscalgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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