Warjhinn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 the article you linked lost me at. ! how is $300 milion at a rate of $15 per month account for 6.7 million subscribers $300M/$15 = 20 million If you read the article, you would have seen that the number "$301 million" was a quarterly figure. Now re-do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faztastic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 most wow subscribers had never played an mmo and don't know what's good for the genre long-term. it's sad that the mmo standard is based on wow's popularity when it did nothing to improve upon or innovate the genre. wow is nothing more than linear dungeon crawls and instances (a terrible addition to mmos). imagine if every movie made from now on was similar to the twilight series. It's completely disingenuous to say WoW has not introduced innovations, and smacks of tall poppy syndrome. I am however interested in why you think Instances are bad for MMOs? I think the main thing that SWTOR should look to WoW for is creating a living, breathing, persistent world that rewards exploration. There is almost no reason to go off the extremely linear beaten track in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faztastic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 wow is a single-player game with a multiplayer option. everything is instanced and you level up by doing mundane quests. You misspelt SWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 In order for SWTOR to become successful it has to bring in more content and sooner.Right now there are lvl 50's pvping and it will only be a matter of time,before they get bored and move on.Im guessing these " predicted " figures will drop substantially outside of the free month as there is already word on a lot of people not resubscribing at the end of it. This is the biggest issue I see for SWTOR, lack of end game. Leveling is great, don't get me wrong.. but the main feature of an MMO should always be end game.. and right now, WoW is destroying all MMOs in that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayzen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yeah. seriously. go play a real mmo. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or you're just daft. SWTOR is far more "instanced" than WoW is...In fact, the only instances WoW has are the same ones that SWTOR has. Dungeons & Raids (Flashpoints & Ops) and Battlegrounds (Warzones). So not really sure what point you're trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's completely disingenuous to say WoW has not introduced innovations, and smacks of tall poppy syndrome. I am however interested in why you think Instances are bad for MMOs? I think the main thing that SWTOR should look to WoW for is creating a living, breathing, persistent world that rewards exploration. There is almost no reason to go off the extremely linear beaten track in this game. what's funny is that wow did not do that. it focused on linear storytelling. an mmo needs to be built around its players. wow never benefited from the player-driven politics that make a world feel alive. people disconnected from the game world to join an instance to kill copies of mobs everyone else was killing. you didn't need to interact with others most of the time. there was no sense of peril when exploring. death was inconsequential. i get it. it was most people's first MMO and it had a couple million u.s. subscribers. that doesn't mean it's the best game ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightlycampana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Two things don't strike me as right about the article: 1) The writer suggests that 1% of accounts are banned per month, and that nearly all over those banned players immediately turn around and purchase a new account. Is that realistic? I have no idea but it seems far too neat to be true. 2) He mentioned a retention rate of "only 30%". This is pretty much the industry standard figure that everyone floats around. If you can beat a 30% retention rate in an MMO then you are seen to be doing better than average. So if SWTOR has sold 2 million copies, you would expect them to end up with about 600,000 subs at most. Edited January 11, 2012 by Slightlycampana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You say these things, then you present no facts. I have no other option than to say that your statements are unfounded with no ACTUAL data to back them up. Consequently, I have ignored everything you said as self promotion and propagation of your subjective view of the MMO gaming industry. Good day. it's common knowledge that asian subscribers have always outnumbered american players 3 to 1. Edited January 11, 2012 by supertouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayzen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 it's common knowledge that asian subscribers have always outnumbered american players 3 to 1. And? You dont make a point other than saying that there are more Eastern players playing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeezyBates Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nerds. Stop complaining about Star Wars over Warcraft and go outside. Thank me later. Play whichever one is more fun for you. That's the TRUTH about MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 even though i don't equate popularity with quality, it means that the game didn't appeal to as many americans as you think whereas the mmo market in asia has been huge for the last 13, 14 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFishes Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 SWTOR doesn't compare to WoW outside of 'levelling' and 'number of cinematics' so the comparison is dumb. WoW is, and always has been, about end game competitiveness. SWTOR has no end game, at least no end game that is worthwhile. There's just no way SWTOR will ever match WoW in terms of end game mechanics and accessibility, and when 4.3.2 comes out with the cross-realm battle.net raiding, I expect a lot of subscriptions to be renewed. Actually, you're wrong. When WoW was released, most likely far before you started playing it (Yes, the original title of WoW was "World of Warcraft" not "World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade"), there was no end game beyond running Stratholme, UBRS, and Scholomance with a 10-15 person raid group to get your "Set Pieces," as we called them in the day... Molten Core existed, and was coded in the game, but it was well over 6 months before the general population really got in and got to see it. The Honor system occured a month after that, and the BG's opened up about 9 months after launch. So basically, it took WoW what most internet attention spans would consider "a lifetime" to even have anything to compare guild vs guild or player vs player... SWTOR doesn't have an endgame beyond EV and hard modes right now, but give it time... enjoy what you're doing now, and let it come... Fun fact... SWTOR reached 1 million subs in 1/10 of the time it took WoW... Now, DEAR BIOWARE, If you FIX the issues with ABILITY LAG that are happening in game, 50% of the people complaining about the game would be silenced. There are little hiccups here and there, but frankly, this is the ONLY thing stopping you from having the hardcore players who want to push content and PvP rally to your side... MMO's have become keybind "twitch" play, and if you give that feel, then most people will happily wait until the major content patches are in place to do it... Sincerely, E.P. P.S. - and with that being said, in PvP, you wouldn't notice the stunlocks anywhere near as much if you could rely on the game engine to react predictably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Fun fact... SWTOR reached 1 million subs in 1/10 of the time it took WoW... Why did you even bother typing this? -MMOs weren't mainstream when WoW came out. -SWTOR is based off star wars, one of the most famous franchises in the world. -SWTOR had a ton of hype for it. I love swtor, but come on dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Why did you even bother typing this? -MMOs weren't mainstream when WoW came out. -SWTOR is based off star wars, one of the most famous franchises in the world. -SWTOR had a ton of hype for it. I love swtor, but come on dude. you don't know much about mmorpgs do you? mmos were immensely popular in asia YEARS before wow came out and ultima online and everquest popularized the genre in the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also added to the facts is that 100% of the people playing SWTOR atm are still using the 30 days they got from buying the game.... Now plz, relax and lets see what the future brings. And again, swtor dont have to beat wow to be a succes. This is a good point about the first 30 days. No one will know until that is over and we see who is actually willing to pay for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 you don't know much about mmorpgs do you? mmos were immensely popular in asia YEARS before wow came out and ultima online and everquest popularized the genre in the west. They were still nowhere near as mainstream as they are now, that's all due to WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavna Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep, and it's not like there's a recurring pattern where everyone tries a new MMORPG for a month and then goes back to WoW. Nope, that *never* happens. See where we are in three months and this might be impressive. Exactly. If you want to be successful, you have to build on WoW did and add something. For me, there are a number things that were completely overlooked that should have been in an MMO released in 2011. For me, the number one thing is how unresponsive the character controls are. This feels like a beta game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 They were still nowhere near as mainstream as they are now, that's all due to WoW. no, dude. just no. and mmos don't need to regurgitate wow's model to be successful. how about adding the fundamentals of a real mmo instead of boring rehashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasperion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 no, dude. just no. Yes, dude. Just yes. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is the honest-to-goodness truth that whatever success SWTOR has must be attributed, on some level, to WoW. It's the same thing with publishing right now. Any fiction book that comes out now owes some of its success to Harry Potter. Without Harry Potter and what it did to bring people back to reading and encouraging new readers, nothing that comes after would be as successful. I love twisting this truth in the sides of the Twilight fanatics. No matter how much they may try to deny it, Twilight wouldn't have been nearly as successful had Harry Potter not come out before it. Same thing here. SWTOR will always owe some of its success to WoW, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. More importantly, BioWare needs to stop acting as if WoW is some sort of leper, and take cues for some of its functionality. As of right now, SWTOR seems to be a cross between WoW and Second Life leaning more towards SL, and there seems to be a large portion of the community that wants to continue this trend towards being an interactive novel rather than an MMO. I can only hope BioWare decides to go the MMO route and finally realizes that no matter how bad WoW is, it has some VERY good functionality, and that there is nothing wrong with trying to imitate that which is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertouch Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yes, dude. Just yes. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is the honest-to-goodness truth that whatever success SWTOR has must be attributed, on some level, to WoW. It's the same thing with publishing right now. Any fiction book that comes out now owes some of its success to Harry Potter. Without Harry Potter and what it did to bring people back to reading and encouraging new readers, nothing that comes after would be as successful. I love twisting this truth in the sides of the Twilight fanatics. No matter how much they may try to deny it, Twilight wouldn't have been nearly as successful had Harry Potter not come out before it. Same thing here. SWTOR will always owe some of its success to WoW, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. More importantly, BioWare needs to stop acting as if WoW is some sort of leper, and take cues for some of its functionality. As of right now, SWTOR seems to be a cross between WoW and Second Life leaning more towards SL, and there seems to be a large portion of the community that wants to continue this trend towards being an interactive novel rather than an MMO. I can only hope BioWare decides to go the MMO route and finally realizes that no matter how bad WoW is, it has some VERY good functionality, and that there is nothing wrong with trying to imitate that which is better. you do realize wow borrowed everything from prior MMMOs, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurphyNox Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 no, dude. just no. and mmos don't need to regurgitate wow's model to be successful. how about adding the fundamentals of a real mmo instead of boring rehashes? I used to play Ultima in it's glory days, I'm not even sure that it ever even topped 1million concurrent subscribers. Please don't outright say that someone is wrong when they are right. UO and Everquest gave MMO's the bump that created WoW, and now the MMO market is booming thanks to it. You are right on MMO's not needing to regurgitate WoW's model though, this game sure as hell did it though. This game could drop like Warhammer, Aion or Rift did, you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurphyNox Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 you do realize wow borrowed everything from prior MMMOs, right? It mainstreamed a successful formula. Even this game has that formula, even though this game is very, very story and dialogue based due to Bioware being rookies when it comes to an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffor Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ...either way I also don't know why people keep comparing it with WoW and seem to want it to 'kick WoW off the throne'... Because there are a lot of weirdos that play video games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) WoW owes everything including it's success to Tennis for Two... so the fact it lacks support to play it on an oscilloscope like Tennis for Two is a clear and present fact of why it is a fail Edited January 12, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkloves Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Ah god, one of these threads. No WoW has had up to 12+ million people. WoW has never needed to inflate their numbers, they do infact lead in the RTS community and in MMO's.. Does WoW have a "I have 2 accounts or more" problem, it did. Blizzard originally only set out because of all the current MMO's at the time, to only have 1 million subs. Within day one far surpassed that. Have they lost alot of subs lately, yes, not even they deny it, but they aren't worried. They will keep the WoW door open even if they drop down to 1 million subs. And yet.. they will still hold one of the longest running games and MMO titles in the world. The only thing to kill WoW, is WoW itself, which is slowly eating away at itself right now. But that is because its intentional. And I foresee Blizzard with their Titan project coming back swining at all the other MMO's in time. But will it surpass WoW? People quickly forget, WoW had a LONG history, before it was WoW, it was warcraft. It is what made the company, the company after all. But we can all thank Dungeons and Dragons for making warcraft what it was, and is today. WoW had a creative team for the first few years that had the great minds and philosophy of dungeons and dragons, and then blizzard went south on it. Why? Simple, they took a bunch of KIDS, I say kids because they were still wet from behind the ears and were WoW hopefuls and players from college and those who went to college to get into gaming because of WoW. And they quickly took the original WoW team and split it in 3 directions. over 40% is working on Titan right now. While the rest, small handful left blizzard to work on other games/project. Retire, or be put into starctaft 2 and diablo 3. Simply watching blizzcon for the past few years, let alone going shows that. The old WoW team is all over the place and supporting/working on other games and we get some new faces leading WoW. I quickly last year, 2010. Became a anti WoW fan because of the pure stupidity I saw at a blizzcon. The lead designer and such were so clueless to the questions the players asked them. And Chris Metzen had to walk on stage and literally CARRY them thru the Q/A let alone presentation. Chris Metzen is a really great guy, but besides Ghst Crawler, who they put a lid on becaue his out right hate and such for his own New WoW team and its philosphy... Well.. Christ and Greg are the only ones right now Carrying WoW.. The dweeb president and new CEO that took over, is nothing compared to the original in the slightest. And I'm really sad to see such a small man, with only $$ in his eyes, lead a once great company into the ground. Edited January 12, 2012 by Paralassa rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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