amnie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Look at Eve Online. Succesful maybe not on the scale of WoW or TOR right now but it's probably the most hardcore MMO out right now. I would definitely agree on that. and that's probably the main reason I don't play it (that and I don't care all that much about space fights ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 In all fairness I think that (assuming equivalent skill) a "hardcore" would be better than a casual simply because they put much more time into the game, and therefore practice it more. So whilst a casual may have the same or more potential than a "hardcore", they will still have less practice and therefore not be on the same level. I'm a casual BTW. MMO's stop requiring practice at one point and start requiring just the slightest bit of intelligence. Moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndgameTOR Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Successful and tiny. Fitting a niche market does not mean it would work for everyone. Sorry. I'm sorry, but EVE has had over 300,000 active subscribers. For any game-maker save EA that I believe that'd be considered a success. From my perspective that is not tiny. It is a niche market, true. Just like Star Wars is a niche market. No one bought this game because it is a 'futuristic science fiction action adventure massively multiplayer role-playing game with single-player story-telling elements. They bought it because it's STAR WARS. Niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webstravaganza Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Casuals pay for hardcore players development. I don't understand your disdain for them. No casuals? No game. Goodbye. Also wall of text. True. No Competitive players = no Casuals trying to be as good as them no game False. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) dont' mistake what i"m saying I'm not saying casual players are ****** to the posters below you, just that there wasn't this casual/hardcore debate ever.. I think that term stemmed out from wow there will always be hardcore and casual players, I think the argument stems from the items just being given out to the casual players because now we're all on forums casual players are mad that they cannot get the same items as players who take the time to organize raids etc.. And I personally agree that we shouldn't all be eligible for the same loot, because it makes the effort you put in to get geared a waste of time. I really miss items with good stats on them, that's what made them worth getting now its just a + to stats nothing else "fun" and the gorgeous thing about EQ was NO ITEM was BOE or BOP so they could be sold, and other players could purchase them... Yet even still these items were rare *shrug* I actually haven't seen any topics about people wanting everything (give or take a few demanding violet sabers... ) I agree that obviously some stuff should be hard to work for... I remember 'some' game I played eventually decided to go f2p (ok ok lawsuit. bla bla bla whatever) and added mounts and all that to their shop. ok, nothing game breaking, obviously... but of course those mounts were the most bad-*** looking onces and had a better speed boost aswell. way to go, t*****e I felt cheated, because I was quite the 'mount collector' and litereally was trying to get them all (I think before the f2p switch I was missing all but 2 mounts from festivals, but had all mounts from the different factions... ) anyway.. long story short there should always be stuff around only to show off, while I agree that it's not so much a 'look everyone, I got this', at least to me it's something I personally want to show I was able to get edit: speaking of 'hardcore'... the most 'hardcore' game I ever played at least in my opinion was FFXI actually.. not because it was 'super hard' or anything, or only the elite played it.. but whoa random weird scenarios! and I'm sure you've all heard about that insane boss back then or the absolutely hilariously epic crafting system (uh sorry I can't go out clubbing with you tonight, I need to log into game because the moon is right for me to craft some new crystals ....) Edited January 11, 2012 by amnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The problem with this issue is that most people in this forum have screamed for this game to be casual friendly. But then you see the same people making comments about how easy the game is. You cant win to be honest, th eonly way is to shut direct forums to the company and just make the game with no feed back. A casual gamer is someone who breezes in and out of the game. but plays no matter of the challange and still strives to better themselves no matter how much time they can give. A lazy gamer is someone who screams for everything to be nerfed. or have things handed out easily. or are the ones who b|tch about content been hard for them. There is a difference. Any right minded gamer knows that an MMO has to have a ladder or difficulty. if there is no carrot on the end of that stick to keep people striving for better items. Then its a failure. Content will be run through, people will get bored and move on. People think they are casuals when they want games to be hello kitty online, but they are not casual. they fall into the lazy bracket. Or stupid bracket as their wishes only kills MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A casual gamer is someone who breezes in and out of the game. but plays no matter of the challange and still strives to better themselves no matter how much time they can give. A lazy gamer is someone who screams for everything to be nerfed. or have things handed out easily. or are the ones who b|tch about content been hard for them. There is a difference. A very obvious difference that many people are apparently blind to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What i remember from my first MMORPG i played years before their was something they called World of Warcraft.. I was a Twi'lek and an Entertainer, i had no clue on what the hell i was during, but it was fun.. I were in a cantina in a city they called Coronet, i learned something about looping macro's and were chatting from 8 am till 12 pm and had my character running macro.. By the time i had maxed out the so called Dancer profession, some dude tipped me 500.000 credits i was like wooow that's a lot of moneys.. I then contacted the person got him to know better and he explained he was an Architect, by that moment i was sold.. Architect i would be, because THEY make the moneys.. I spend all the days/nights surveying for resources to grind up, i suddenly i had build my own house.. Few weeks after of grinding, and grinding and yet more grinding i was Master Architect.. I thought now the moneys goes in, and i decided to advertise for my self around the galaxies, and got orders on Guild Halls and other larger stuff, then i was like.. How do i build a guild hall?!... Anyway i spend nearly half a year before i actually began earning credits, and build stuff.. Those times were Legendary for me.. TL;DR Todays MMO's are about who got the best gear, and not who had the best fun in the game.. Sadly i have been consumed aswell by that evilness.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abishe Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The problem with this issue is that most people in this forum have screamed for this game to be casual friendly. But then you see the same people making comments about how easy the game is. You cant win to be honest, th eonly way is to shut direct forums to the company and just make the game with no feed back. A casual gamer is someone who breezes in and out of the game. but plays no matter of the challange and still strives to better themselves no matter how much time they can give. A lazy gamer is someone who screams for everything to be nerfed. or have things handed out easily. or are the ones who b|tch about content been hard for them. There is a difference. Any right minded gamer knows that an MMO has to have a ladder or difficulty. if there is no carrot on the end of that stick to keep people striving for better items. Then its a failure. Content will be run through, people will get bored and move on. People think they are casuals when they want games to be hello kitty online, but they are not casual. they fall into the lazy bracket. Or stupid bracket as their wishes only kills MMOs. i most be the weird type of gamers, i play games to suck them dry of story, information, and basic gameplay. when i done. i leave without ever looking back... care very little about, mounts, gear, epic, raid or dungeons. guess their ain't many people like me, playing like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teageltron Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Did not read due to wall of text. From the reply's I read, your post was not worth the read. Goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Did not read due to wall of text. From the reply's I read, your post was not worth the read. Goodbye Again laziness, 5 minute in this world, was 50 minutes 10 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDozen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No Competitive players = no Casuals trying to be as good as them no game That's childish at best. Anyway, if Bioware were a person you'd be labled a "Stalker" and slapped with a restraining order. You think the game is a 4/10 and announced you cancelled a week ago. Yet you remain for some unknown reason, which I kinda figured you would. I mean why put it in your sig and not hang around to spam it all over everybody's face right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrigan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) It's hilarious that some people think players need a "role model" when playing a video game, but it's not surprising. All those "elite" players have huge egos when it comes to their "success" in games. What I feel about that kind of people is closer to pity. And this comes from a MMO veteran playing these games since UO beta and MUDs before that, what you could call an "old school" player who knows more than just WoW. That's childish at best. Anyway, if Bioware were a person you'd be labled a "Stalker" and slapped with a restraining order. You think the game is a 4/10 and announced you cancelled a week ago. Yet you remain for some unknown reason, which I kinda figured you would. I mean why put it in your sig and not hang around to spam it all over everybody's face right?No worries, if he really told the truth, he will be gone comes the 20. If he still posts then, you'll know what to think Edited January 11, 2012 by Korrigan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tueland Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I started to play wow half a year after it was released.. so i guess im a half-old school player xD.. But yes im tierd of the players who wants everything throwed their way cuz they dont have to time etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisregen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It is a niche market, true. Just like Star Wars is a niche market. No one bought this game because it is a 'futuristic science fiction action adventure massively multiplayer role-playing game with single-player story-telling elements. They bought it because it's STAR WARS. Niche. Actually I bought it cause it's Bioware and in spite of it being Star Wars and just another WOW clone. Just saying. I might be the only one, just saying not everyone bought it cause it's Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDragonsBalls Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If I didn't have so much time on my hands, I wouldn't have bothered reading your post because the grammar is so horrid. But that's beside the point. I agree that casuals who feel entitled to everything need to look at the game from the hardcore players' viewpoint. If I spend days upon days playing so that I can learn all the little points about the game and grind all the end-game content to get the best gear in the game, I expect to have better gear than someone who logs on for an hour a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Actually I bought it cause it's Bioware and in spite of it being Star Wars and just another WOW clone. Just saying. I might be the only one, just saying not everyone bought it cause it's Star Wars. it was a tie for me. if not for this game I'd be playing another MMO because I do like them. I also like Star Wars, and I'm kind of a Bioware-fangirl (oh BW, you broke a fangirl's heart with DA2...) so naturally I was all kinds of hyper when I first heard the news that BW was doing an MMO and yet alone SW-themed (yay³) but I'd probably also be playing if it had another theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I'm an old school player, probably older than the OP. I started MMO's in 1994 with Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online. Can go back to muds prior, but thats not the topic at hand. I remember when MMOs weren't about legendaries at all, and weren't all about what my next piece of gear was to drive me forward, so i can get another piece of gear. Its an old and tired ( and design wise, overly easy) form of gameplay, and i for one am extremely happy that MMOs are moving away from it. With a little luck, gameplay will return to a time that was MMO "old school" and not just the "old school" where some (the op) happened to start playing MMOs (vanilla wow, eq?) But i doubt it. Edited January 11, 2012 by Tic- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malefik Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What i remember from my first MMORPG i played years before their was something they called World of Warcraft.. I was a Twi'lek and an Entertainer, i had no clue on what the hell i was during, but it was fun.. I were in a cantina in a city they called Coronet, i learned something about looping macro's and were chatting from 8 am till 12 pm and had my character running macro.. By the time i had maxed out the so called Dancer profession, some dude tipped me 500.000 credits i was like wooow that's a lot of moneys.. I then contacted the person got him to know better and he explained he was an Architect, by that moment i was sold.. Architect i would be, because THEY make the moneys.. I spend all the days/nights surveying for resources to grind up, i suddenly i had build my own house.. Few weeks after of grinding, and grinding and yet more grinding i was Master Architect.. I thought now the moneys goes in, and i decided to advertise for my self around the galaxies, and got orders on Guild Halls and other larger stuff, then i was like.. How do i build a guild hall?!... Anyway i spend nearly half a year before i actually began earning credits, and build stuff.. Those times were Legendary for me.. TL;DR Todays MMO's are about who got the best gear, and not who had the best fun in the game.. Sadly i have been consumed aswell by that evilness.. Back when a space quest reward part with one uber stat triggered a two year re-e project. Those days are gone. /agree; Legendary times they were if you were into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aepervius Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No Competitive players = no Casuals trying to be as good as them no game Doubtful. All friend I have are casuals (as I am) and we would not miss any of the "hardcore" if they did not exists. We are not trying to be as good as you , we really don't care (heck we even think what you see as skill is really not). We are not trying to emulate you. Would you stop tomorrow or change server it would not change our love for the game. You are really overstating the role of "hardcore" if anything we are probably paying for your raid, as casual overwhelmly don't raid (less than 50% ever do a raid, less than 10% finish a raid of a given tier before the next teier is added in that other unnamed MMO). Actually dev would probably be happy without hardcore which cost them more than the casuals, but pay the same money. ETA: OH and PS: i am a vetera CASUAL. I played casual stuff back even before UO : MUDs. Edited January 11, 2012 by Aepervius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrongfeifong Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 this game bored vet like me to dead. i only love FFXI before Abyssia ..well i don't mind abyssia anyway. Bring back DAOC frontier raiding! (but the game still live anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyklingon Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm sorry, but EVE has had over 300,000 active subscribers. For any game-maker save EA that I believe that'd be considered a success. From my perspective that is not tiny. It is a niche market, true. Just like Star Wars is a niche market. No one bought this game because it is a 'futuristic science fiction action adventure massively multiplayer role-playing game with single-player story-telling elements. They bought it because it's STAR WARS. Niche. eve is down to less than 100k after their cash shop caffe(and the thing with the 3d cockpit) anyway, OP has no concept of what oldschool hardcore time spent meant, and probably never had epics or high level gear in those old schoolol mmo's let alone in wow vanilla. first off, no one is standign aroun dtown to "show off their epix" like you wanted to do back in wow vanilla. no one is going to fawn over you if you do get epix. epics/purple bordered gear is not about rarity but about stat budget/quality, and has been for YEARS now. sorry you are years behind the ever evolving paradigm of mmo gaming. this is 2012. there is still hard to get rare low drop items in games like swtor or wow or w/e. they just don't have stats and often take the form of mounts and vainity pets. if youa re looking for one per server epics then perhaps you may like asian f2p games, though you may find the itemization quite strange compared to the american eq/wow itemization systems that have become all encompassing in this genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinavast Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No Competitive players = no Casuals trying to be as good as them no game This. Also, ya know, job. Family. Basement not belonging to parents. I will never understand how investing a number of hours that would otherwise qualify as a part time job makes you "casual". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarfy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 WoW Was released. Thats what happened. Look at any MMO that has a True Grind and you will see it falls short of WOW since that is now the standard when it comes to game design in this country. People even NEED add-ons to be happy because WOW had them too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is this another one of those threads where basement dwellers whine about the best stuff not being reserved for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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