Volkrisse Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Not sure how recount would be cheating, but it would definitely allow specs to be given clout as being top dpser, rotations would be able to be hammered out etc. I don't think it needs all the extra crap however, enrage timers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 What, exactly, is the information recount is giving you that allows you to win via cheating? Don't just enumerate "dps, interrupts, etc". Tell me: - specifically what information it gives you and - how you'd use that information to win That's a completely separate topic (is obfuscation of information and poor UI design a substitute for difficulty?) I enter raid with no recount. I lose. I think we need more dps. I enter raid with recount I lose. I *know* I need more dps. I enter raid without recount and boss interrupts me but I'm sure when or how. I enter raid with recount, it tells me when he interrupts. I know now how to beat him next time. If I use a tool to aid me win the fight. I cheated. If you don't think it's cheating that is your prerogative, but living in denial won't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yes, just like this thread is discussing adding meters as part of the published game... just like wow has an addon API as part of the published game. just like EQ has a combat log as part of the published game. In EQ I've never seen a player kicked due to a combat log. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I enter raid with no recount. I lose. I think we need more dps. I enter raid with recount I lose. I think I need more dps.fixed I enter raid without recount and boss interrupts me but I'm sure when or how. I enter raid with recount, it tells me when he interrupts.false If I use a tool to aid me win the fight. I cheated.False. If the tool is within the rules, it's not cheating. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) In EQ I've never seen a player kicked due to a combat log.Really? I did several times, back in PoP at the earliest as I recall. the first I remember someone doing that was a rogue, and the guy (the cleric healer) showed that the rogue was just auto attacking mostly afk, not bothering to backstabbing and was being out dps'd by the bard who was pulling (me). Edited January 16, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-rapture Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No counters. EQ raids were strat based... Im sorry, but EQ raids were mostly rampant zerging. I have not played in ages (the expansion after planes of power is when I quit) so they may have changed a lot since then (a new expansion just came out I think) but back in the day since nothing was instanced you would just get a HUGE number of people for everything and a mechanic for an entire fight would be something along the lines of "adds will spawn that you have to kill before they reach the boss". SW:TOR has single person gold star encounters more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Im sorry, but EQ raids were mostly rampant zerging. I have not played in ages (the expansion after planes of power is when I quit) so they may have changed a lot since then (a new expansion just came out I think) but back in the day since nothing was instanced you would just get a HUGE number of people for everything and a mechanic for an entire fight would be something along the lines of "adds will spawn that you have to kill before they reach the boss". SW:TOR has single person gold star encounters more complicated than that. Are you following me? Because this was posted a few hours ago... Clearly you were never part of a Plane of Tactics raid(Rallos Zek) or you would understand how silly your post is. Please stop trolling me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asamighost Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 YES PLEASE AND A COMBAT LOG! /caps off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazeh Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I enter raid with no recount. I lose. I think we need more dps. I enter raid with recount I lose. I *know* I need more dps. If you fail the fight without recount due to not hitting an enrage timer then you know you need more dps just as much as you would if you didn't hit hte enrage timer with recount. The only difference here is that with recount you have some exact figures to work from when considering what changes to make going forward. I enter raid without recount and boss interrupts me but I'm sure when or how. I enter raid with recount, it tells me when he interrupts. I know now how to beat him next time. Recount doesn't tell you anything about when to interrupt. Recount merely parses the combat log so you can find out after the fact who interrupted and how many times, it doesn't provide any warnings beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AniRamser Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The average Joe is never gonna use recount, doesn't this give you an advantage over him? I wouldn't really give a darn either way, it's just that the elitists now will become even worse and I can't abide by that notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The "slippery slope" is a time honored logical fallacy. Anybody who has any education on the subject should feel no need to respond to such a fundamentally flawed post. FYI Translation: I don't have any counter point, but I like to pretend to look intelligent in snarky meaningless replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheedragon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Good parsing/metering can actually account for things like damage taken, ccs and interrupts. When I run FPs on my smuggler, I find myself more often than not in situations where the mobs I try to shoot at are dead before I get a single shot off. Sometimes mobs just die so fast I dont get a chance to hit them, does this damage meter/parser of your account for that too, or will I just end up getting bashed for not doing enough dps because I cant even get a hit in before the mobs are dead? I aw in wow just how horribly these meters can and will be abused by those who's self esteem are so low they have to make others look bad for themselves to look good. At the current point in time, any and all content in this game can be completed WITHOUT these stupid meters, there are plenty of guilds who already have and continue do this, so what is the REAL reason you pro-meter folks want this in the game? I think most of those who ask for this just want this because they are so used to having them that they simply cant play the game without them, its like a drug for them, they just got to have it. Edited January 17, 2012 by Bansheedragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 oh, my bad. the honest truth of the matter is, you can't be the boss of a company where everyone you employ takes calls from home, and then have no metrics whatsoever about who is taking how many calls. it simply is not going to fly as a business. hire 40 people to work from home with a quota of 4000 units sold per month TOTAL and you get no metrics on who sold how many units or who made how many calls. i guarantee you the units will not get sold. by adding a simple tracking of who made the calls and sold the units, you can easily find out who is sitting on their laurels watching sabador gigante all day instead of working. so. simple. the people who don't want recount are the people who want to smoke weed on their couch all day and still collect a paycheck. No, my bad, I honestly thought that this was a game . . . not a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHueyx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This whole argument is ridiculous. The fact is, even if a damage meter was put into the game, nobody is forcing you to use it. You can choose to completely ignore the thing, you never once have to use it. If a damage meter is not in the game the people who WANT to use them don't even have the option to. Basically people who don't like meters are for some reason trying to prevent the people who like them and see value in them from using them. They are essentially forcing their style of gameplay onto us when there is absolutely no reason to do that. Having a damage meter in the game gives choice, if you had no intention whatsoever of using one, life goes on as normal for you. If you want to use one, suddenly you can. I don't want people dictating for me whether I should be allowed to even have the CHOICE of using a damage meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzimisce Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No it's quite true. He's not forcing anything on you. False; there are lots of raiding guilds that don't require it in wow. There are lots of raiding guilds that don't require it in EQ; parsers have been available in EQ since it's first months. no... no they did not, EQ 1 had ZERO transparency for years, you could not even alt+tab out of the game without using a third person program that could get you banned, no one had any real idea of what the stats in the game really did, you did not evne know how large your mana pool was just that you had roughly 74% of it left and roughly 2 int/wis was 1 mana per level, and when asked what dex did you were told you weren't supposed to know. it wasn't until luclin was almost out that i even heard of the first "parser" and it was a ban-able offense to be caught using one so people rarely even mentioned it... at the time, things eventually changed, now on EQ most (yes most if not all) raiding guilds use add ons that literally tell you when to press the Down arrow key to avoid a frenzy, or when to use a specific discipline, ive even seen programs that predicted very accurately what spell to cast and when AND do it for you in that game. I've seen EQ 1 raids completely automated, this is why when GoD and later expansions came out they had to start doing REALLY REALLY weird things during raid fights. There are things youd have to do in EQ1 raids that no one on this community would willingly put up with, and its all due to addons and data mining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wikimon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Best post on this board... Interesting none of the recount advocates have addressed it. Truth hurts doesn't it? more like TLDR. if you can't condense your argument into a few salient sentences don't expect people to read it. the internet if full of time wasting trolls. don't be one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wikimon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I enter raid with recount, it tells me when he interrupts. I know now how to beat him next time. recount doesn't tell you when he interrupts. you're smoking some kind of drug. please sober up and try again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spliffmaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 By all means, give me recount. Also, give me a way to MOVE things on my *********** screen now please. The fact that people misuse recount isn't the issue. It's a great tool for many of us. It will NOT ruin the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Personal combat log is coming. Addons for the moment are not. For now this debate is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The fact is, even if a damage meter was put into the game, nobody is forcing you to use it. Have been many occasions where I encountered it being used. Never got kicked because of it myself, but I've seen it happen lots of times. And seen the spam countless times. So saying if I don't wan to use it, it doesn't affect me just isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Only support it if ONLY shows personal stats NOT other peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 again with an emphatic no. personal combat log - yes meters - resounding no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wikimon Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Only support it if ONLY shows personal stats NOT other peoples. again with an emphatic no. personal combat log - yes meters - resounding no. no reasons given. posts ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 no reasons given. posts ignored It brings in the elitist. No more needs said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 no reasons given. posts ignored I dont have to give reasons, I just have to give a yes or no answer. I've given reasons before, now its just to reiterate that I dont support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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