LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Taroen]

So spam people instead? That's an even bigger waste of time. A LFG tool lets people who want to group up actually group up. It's efficient and gives a player the opportunity to quest and explore instead of spamming and begging people in chat or tells to join a group.

 

So that's always your solution, right..? Spam.

 

I guess you have to be pretty anti-social to not understand what he was trying to tell you.

 

But your solution hasn't worked, has it..? You can't get groups.

 

He CAN get groups, and he is trying to tell you how... But you won't listen.

[LordAposno]

You JUST said that only 1% of the player base was hardcore and seeing all the content, and then you turn around and blame a 17% drop in subscribers on them...?

 

Wonderful logic there.

 

The 1% is not up for argument, that is a fact straight from Blizzard. I am referring to the amount of people that experienced endgame content. They stated only 1% of the population prior to LFG tool had seen that end game content. That is not the percentage of dropped subs. I am not blaming the entire drop on hard cores, but I am blaming the majority of the drop on them, yes I am. Which again is the lower end of the player base. The drop has to do with the hard core drop, with issues in their china and Asian markets and player burnout. Game has been around 7 years, people just get tired.

[Taroen]

Coincidentally yes I am terrible at math. But I was not stating or implying that 1% left. I stated that only 1% of the population had experienced dungeons and raids according to Blizzard. This is a very small minority experiencing premium content. That is why it was changed to cater to the majority of the player base. Wow's peak was at 12 million due to expansions and ease of access for the majority of players. Now the population is roughly at 10 million after the hardcores burned through the content. So Blizzard lost about 2 million people, well that number while impressive is still negligible due to the casuals still staying with the game. They also lost people to their china and Asian markets issues. So that number just got smaller. The point of the story is what would you do? Are you going to target your 10 million player base and keep those subscriptions or target your rough 1.5 million hardcore players that will leave soon anyway?

 

But they're losing more and more people still, at a rate that would obliterate the playerbase of most games, including THIS one.

 

Did you ever stop to think that it might be because everything is so easy that it is beyond boring now..? Who is ever going to really value a piece of gear that they get when it was so easily obtained and easily replaced..? No one.

 

Tier 1 was awesome and even Tier .5 gear was cool in Vanilla. You had to put some effort into getting it. Now I don't even know what tier they are on, and I don't even care. It's just an endless purple hamster wheel that requires no real effort.

 

The little endorphin rush you get from a shiny new purple only lasts so long.

 

WoW is focussed on people mindlessly pushing to loot drops. Personally, I like content that requires people to work together a little more. The fun is in the GAME for me... Not the loot pinata that I fell asleep before getting to.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Taroen

[SlickDevlan]

Coincidentally yes I am terrible at math. But I was not stating or implying that 1% left. I stated that only 1% of the population had experienced dungeons and raids according to Blizzard. This is a very small minority experiencing premium content. That is why it was changed to cater to the majority of the player base. Wow's peak was at 12 million due to expansions and ease of access for the majority of players. Now the population is roughly at 10 million after the hardcores burned through the content. So Blizzard lost about 2 million people, well that number while impressive is still negligible due to the casuals still staying with the game. They also lost people to their china and Asian markets issues. So that number just got smaller. The point of the story is what would you do? Are you going to target your 10 million player base and keep those subscriptions or target your rough 1.5 million hardcore players that will leave soon anyway?

 

Actually, you did say that the reason they had lost ONLY the hardcare, which you pegged at 1%, but ignoring that, you still failed to explain why they are STILL losing subs or how they managed to have 10 million subs and growing at a time when the game had no LFG, no dual spec, and heroic/raid content was still considered hard. You are pretending that the sub losses have stopped, and that that they have only lost "hardcore" players when that is simply no the case even with all of these wonderful, casual friendly features.

Edited January 11, 2012 by SlickDevlan

[tiennen]

Here is why....

 

I played WoW for 7 years. Groups used to be great. Then an LFG tool was introduced. After that it was hard to keep a group together because the first time everyone died people would drop group for a new one. After the LFG tool was introduced people in groups also turned into asses about jsut about everything that didn't go their way.

 

So in regards to an LFG tool, I say hell no.

 

EDIT: I NEVER have a hard time find a group, and I'm not in a guild.

 

a LFG TOOL is needed.

 

a LFG QUE is not needed.

 

i will clarify that by saying this:

I would like to see a LFG tool implemented. You select your dungeon/flashpoint and sign up to LFG. Others can look at who is LFG for each flashpoint, and can form their group accordingly.

 

this tool would be much like the LFG tool was in WoW pre-Wrath. During BC, when that game didnt suck.

Edited January 11, 2012 by tiennen

[Taroen]

a LFG TOOL is needed.

 

a LFG QUE is not needed.

 

i will clarify that by saying this:

I would like to see a LFG tool implemented. You select your dungeon/flashpoint and sign up to LFG. Others can look at who is LFG for each flashpoint, and can form their group accordingly.

 

this tool would be much like the LFG tool was in WoW pre-Wrath. During BC, when that game didnt suck.

 

That wouldn't be so bad.

[SlickDevlan]

a LFG TOOL is needed.

 

a LFG QUE is not needed.

 

i will clarify that by saying this:

I would like to see a LFG tool implemented. You select your dungeon/flashpoint and sign up to LFG. Others can look at who is LFG for each flashpoint, and can form their group accordingly.

 

this tool would be much like the LFG tool was in WoW pre-Wrath. During BC, when that game didnt suck.

 

Yeah, that's sort of what we have now only the SWTOR version isn't nearly as easy to use.

[maradigamer]

Join a guild?

Make some friends in the real world that you can play SWTOR with?

 

That way you don't have to sit around waiting for some random person to group with.

Simple solution to a simple problem.

 

So you take your own advice, right? Therefore you don't mind if the rest of us who don't like your advice have a lfg tool, since it will in no way impact your gameplay. Right?

[Kurnea]

But they're losing more and more people still, at a rate that would obliterate the playerbase of most games, including THIS one.

 

Did you ever stop to think that it might be because everything is so easy that it is beyond boring now..? Who is ever going to really value a piece of gear that they get when it was so easily obtained and easily replaced..? No one.

 

If that were true, the game would've been dead long before Cataclysm, since the game was super easy from the start of Wrath. Instead a 7 year old game has continued to hold millions of subscribers when every contender to date has barely gotten a fraction.

 

Plus, I've played plenty of games where gear was easily obtained and easily replaced, and still had fun. Take any Fallout game, gear is obtained fairly easily when you know where it is, and I still love having 'That Gun' or a 'Lincoln's Repeater'. For the most part I play mmos like this because I enjoy the content.

[DJJAZZY]

I think a better LFG tool is needed.

 

For those not having a problem finding groups now, well duh, the game just came out. Groups have never been a problem in new mmos. In 3 months it will certainly be a different story however.

[LordAposno]

So that's always your solution, right..? Spam.

 

I guess you have to be pretty anti-social to not understand what he was trying to tell you.

 

But your solution hasn't worked, has it..? You can't get groups.

 

He CAN get groups, and he is trying to tell you how... But you won't listen.

 

 

Taroen, all I have seen from you is insults and belittling people. What solutions have you presented? Enlighten this thread with your solution how the ease of finding a group. I belong to one of the biggest guilds in any MMO, I am on a heavy populated server. I can find groups sometimes, and sometimes I can not.

 

As I have stated in this thread before. Friends can not play 24/7, can not be at your beck and call. People level at different paces. Same thing for guilds. A lot of people that can not find groups probably have limited play times, like I do. I will not speak for them, but for me. I will help you to understand that many different people with different situations play this game.

 

 

I work full time, I am a parent, and until recently a full time student. I have a limited playtime, that is not at a regular time. Some friends have out leveled me, I have out leveled some as well. Same thing with the guild. Sometimes not the right level of people are on or they are questing. Spamming a chat channel is my last resort. But when that event occurs I am stuck for a long time unable to do anything but find a group. If I cant find a group in an hour I can not run the flashpoint that day. As a paying customer this is unacceptable. This is why I need a LFG tool. Judging by this tread I am not alone in this need.

 

 

I have replied to you respectfully and without insult, If you choose to reply I challenge you to do the same.

[SlickDevlan]

So you take your own advice, right? Therefore you don't mind if the rest of us who don't like your advice have a lfg tool, since it will in no way impact your gameplay. Right?

 

/sigh

 

Was is the "it won't affect your gameplay" the fallback argument for silly things?

[Kurnea]

/sigh

 

Was is the "it won't affect your gameplay" the fallback argument for silly things?

 

Actually, I think responding to an argument by dismissing it as 'silly' is the fallback argument.

[SlickDevlan]

Actually, I think responding to an argument by dismissing it as 'silly' is the fallback argument.

 

If all they have is that "it won't affect my gameplay" then all I need is "silly".

 

P.S. Are you the same "Kurnea" from the WoW forums?

Edited January 11, 2012 by SlickDevlan

[Taroen]

So you take your own advice, right? Therefore you don't mind if the rest of us who don't like your advice have a lfg tool, since it will in no way impact your gameplay. Right?

 

Except that we've already explained about a bazillion times how it WOULD affect our gameplay.

[Khoranth]

a LFG TOOL is needed.

 

a LFG QUE is not needed.

 

i will clarify that by saying this:

I would like to see a LFG tool implemented. You select your dungeon/flashpoint and sign up to LFG. Others can look at who is LFG for each flashpoint, and can form their group accordingly.

 

this tool would be much like the LFG tool was in WoW pre-Wrath. During BC, when that game didnt suck.

 

The LFD crowd does not want that. There would be too much accountability in groups with an LFG tool such as you described.

 

The LFD crowd wants a mirror of WoW's LFD, with full greifer protections , cross server, and all the other garbage, so they can act as horribly as they want and not be held accountable.

 

People who want LFD, as opposed to an LFG tool are most likely ninja looters, greifers, leechers, AFKers or some other form of person who makes ignore lists and does not ever get invited back to groups.

[Taroen]

Taroen, all I have seen from you is insults and belittling people. What solutions have you presented? Enlighten this thread with your solution how the ease of finding a group. I belong to one of the biggest guilds in any MMO, I am on a heavy populated server. I can find groups sometimes, and sometimes I can not.

 

As I have stated in this thread before. Friends can not play 24/7, can not be at your beck and call. People level at different paces. Same thing for guilds. A lot of people that can not find groups probably have limited play times, like I do. I will not speak for them, but for me. I will help you to understand that many different people with different situations play this game.

 

 

I work full time, I am a parent, and until recently a full time student. I have a limited playtime, that is not at a regular time. Some friends have out leveled me, I have out leveled some as well. Same thing with the guild. Sometimes not the right level of people are on or they are questing. Spamming a chat channel is my last resort. But when that event occurs I am stuck for a long time unable to do anything but find a group. If I cant find a group in an hour I can not run the flashpoint that day. As a paying customer this is unacceptable. This is why I need a LFG tool. Judging by this tread I am not alone in this need.

 

 

I have replied to you respectfully and without insult, If you choose to reply I challenge you to do the same.

 

He told you to go meet more people and TALK them, and you interpretted it as him telling you to spam people in whispers. I'm sorry, but that's anti-social. It wasn't to belittle you or insult you out of hand, it was just the truth.

 

And the fact of the matter is that if you don't know enough people in the game to run the content, then you need to meet more people that like to do the same things you like to do.

 

That said... I would still be very much in favor of an instance finder for pre-50 content, and maybe even for the normal flashpoints. That would be a GOOD thing for the game, because levelling content is always going to be harder to find groups, and getting to do that stuff gets people involved with each other, even if they got dropped in randomly.

 

Most of my posts here have been directed at the crowd that is upset that they can't instantly get a random group for level 50 hardmodes and faceroll them.

[OneSoul]

I wouldn't mind one honestly.

 

Spamming "LFG (insert Flashpoint here) and no one replies with well over 100 people in the same area can become discouraging.

 

If you don't want it, then don't use it.

[Kurnea]

If all they have is that "it won't affect my gameplay" then all I need is "silly".

 

P.S. Are you the same "Kurnea" from the WoW forums?

 

If a better tool would help them and have no negative impact on you, then it's not a silly argument. And yes, same Kurnea from the WoW forums.

[SlickDevlan]

If a better tool would help them and have no negative impact on you, then it's not a silly argument. And yes, same Kurnea from the WoW forums.

 

Figures. You were a crusader for mediocrity then, and it would appear that you haven't changed.

 

P.S. There are probably hundreds of things people could ask for that "wouldn't affect the gameplay of others" but they would be contrary to the goal, purpose or spirit of the game. Doesn't make any of those things anymore "right" than this.

[Halbe]

The LFD crowd does not want that. There would be too much accountability in groups with an LFG tool such as you described.

 

The LFD crowd wants a mirror of WoW's LFD, with full greifer protections , cross server, and all the other garbage, so they can act as horribly as they want and not be held accountable.

 

People who want LFD, as opposed to an LFG tool are most likely ninja looters, greifers, leechers, AFKers or some other form of person who makes ignore lists and does not ever get invited back to groups.

 

Maybe we need different threads, because I'm confused as to where some of these arguments come from.

 

Ignoring the glarring generalizations, are your LFD and LFG tools different?

[LordAposno]

Actually, you did say that the reason they had lost ONLY the hardcare, which you pegged at 1%, but ignoring that, you still failed to explain why they are STILL losing subs or how they managed to have 10 million subs and growing at a time when the game had no LFG, no dual spec, and heroic/raid content was still considered hard. You are pretending that the sub losses have stopped, and that that they have only lost "hardcore" players when that is simply no the case even with all of these wonderful, casual friendly features.

 

 

They are losing players due to the china/Asian market issues they have been having. Due to payer burnout, after 7 years people just get tired. The reason I left was the endless grind. Wow is a game full of grinding. Grinding for loot, rep and anything else. If the game was still hard core it would be dead. The only reason its surviving is because of its casual friendly features. Grind or not its still pretty casual friendly.

[Nahela]

Anybody who truly believes that LFD tools make communities worse doesn't understand MMO communities or the internet in general. The anonymity is already there, saying LFD makes it worse is a fallacy.

 

The game needs it direly. People simply aren't grouping and aren't running FPs.

[savagepotato]

Taroen, all I have seen from you is insults and belittling people. What solutions have you presented? Enlighten this thread with your solution how the ease of finding a group. I belong to one of the biggest guilds in any MMO, I am on a heavy populated server. I can find groups sometimes, and sometimes I can not.

 

As I have stated in this thread before. Friends can not play 24/7, can not be at your beck and call. People level at different paces. Same thing for guilds. A lot of people that can not find groups probably have limited play times, like I do. I will not speak for them, but for me. I will help you to understand that many different people with different situations play this game.

 

 

I work full time, I am a parent, and until recently a full time student. I have a limited playtime, that is not at a regular time. Some friends have out leveled me, I have out leveled some as well. Same thing with the guild. Sometimes not the right level of people are on or they are questing. Spamming a chat channel is my last resort. But when that event occurs I am stuck for a long time unable to do anything but find a group. If I cant find a group in an hour I can not run the flashpoint that day. As a paying customer this is unacceptable. This is why I need a LFG tool. Judging by this tread I am not alone in this need.

 

 

I have replied to you respectfully and without insult, If you choose to reply I challenge you to do the same.

 

I don't feel anyone should have a sense of entitlement that they should always be guaranteed to be able to find a group immediately for anything their heart desires. There should be effort involved in doing this in a social game.

 

So you can't always find a group for what you want to do within your guild. So what. You don't get to run the flashpoint you are looking for tonight, and I don't think that's a problem. I don't feel a solution is taking it to the extreme like WoW did with the cross server tool.

 

I could get behind a tool like what City of Heroes had when I played it. Or as someone has mentioned the old WoW tool where you could specify your class, what you were looking for, and be searched quickly and reliably.

 

Any solution for finding a group more efficiently should encourage doing it through social means. Not simply jam the first 4 people it can find together and instant port them in for a 15 minute smash and grab.

Edited January 11, 2012 by savagepotato

[LordAposno]

So that's always your solution, right..? Spam.

 

I guess you have to be pretty anti-social to not understand what he was trying to tell you.

 

But your solution hasn't worked, has it..? You can't get groups.

 

He CAN get groups, and he is trying to tell you how... But you won't listen.

 

 

 

There is nothing anti-social about spamming the chat channel. You still get into group and you still have to talk to people. Spamming is my last attempt when all else has failed. I can get groups, just not efficiently or effectively or even consistently. Starting a reply with an insult...nice one.