Why did Bioware choose the hero engine?

[emeraldhill]

As someone who spent 6 months playing EvE Online, I don't ask for much in a game.

 

So happiness is fine but being content is the biggest priority and TOR doesn't make me feel content with the things I do in the game.

 

Isn't EVE that game with skills that take months to train and that has a monthly fee? Man they must be milking their customers easily.

[FerrusPA]

Isn't EVE that game with skills that take months to train and that has a monthly fee? Man they must be milking their customers easily.

 

As I said: I don't ask for much. Now consider how I subbed to EvE for 6 months and don't feel like resubbing to TOR after my first one.

 

Also EvE is pretty hilarious if you get involved in the meta game.

[traft]

Okay I will use aion for my example.

 

Think you could ever raid with 700 people in swtor with smooth fps and better graphics? Probably not.

 

In aion you can. They took cry engine as their base and evolved it for that game.

 

Its smooth its responsive and can handle some serious numbers when it comes to pvp with hundreds of players.

 

They have an adaptable LoD system that you can set manually in prefs for char detail so if your system isn't up to snuff it will auto adjust textures and models to keep your fps up.

 

I never had to use it.

 

Mythic used technology 10 years ago to handle large number of players with an antiquated mmo engine and ancient video cards. Depend on your settings it would basically draw player models at a distance with low polygon characters which lacked the visual detail you need when you are up close and the models are not in motion. In DAOC you could get a very large number of people in the one area.

 

You can draw hundreds or even thousands of low polygon player models and you don't really need the detail unless you are up close and especially if things aren't moving around quickly.

 

If they implemented the same thing with the current engine they could achieve similar results. 3d engines are fully customisable, the only reason something works one way in one MMO and not for another MMO is because that functionality wasn't added by the developers.

[Barracudastr]

Mythic used technology 10 years ago to handle large number of players with an antiquated mmo engine and ancient video cards. Depend on your settings it would basically draw player models at a distance with low polygon characters which lacked the visual detail you need when you are up close and the models are not in motion. In DAOC you could get a very large number of people in the one area.

 

You can draw hundreds or even thousands of low polygon player models and you don't really need the detail unless you are up close and especially if things aren't moving around quickly.

 

If they implemented the same thing with the current engine they could achieve similar results. 3d engines are fully customisable, the only reason something works one way in one MMO and not for another MMO is because that functionality wasn't added by the developers.

 

This is true, this is why I doubt the dev's that worked on swtor theres so many mech/tech issues that it makes you wonder what they did with that 80 mil and the 7 years they had to work on it.

 

Im not saying I could do better I am saying other devs have done better with less money and less time.... it could be simply that the devs working on swtor just arent at the top of the pile so to speak. (I feel like a broke record)

 

Before I go to bed I just want to say, how many mmo's do you have multiple threads daily questioning the game engine because theres so many problems.

 

Its not just a few people like myself saying yo *** guys. Its multiple sites and hundreds wondering the same thing.

 

Night all.

[Arkerus]

Isn't EVE that game with skills that take months to train and that has a monthly fee? Man they must be milking their customers easily.

 

People confuse grinding or waiting on skills for "content".

Eve isnt even comparable to this game anyway.

 

Its sandbox vs theme park. If someone wants a sandbox MMO they should go play it instead of wasting their time posting on forums.

 

Regarding the topic on hand: You weren't in the decision room, you cannot post why bioware chose the hero engine. It obviously met their CTQs better than any other engine. Its also their version of the code.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Arkerus

[Rekooh]

This isn't really a true statement. Graphics scaling is ALWAYS horrible. The disparity is too great. Low settings can only go so low without completely compromising the game.

 

The high-res graphics in TOR are actually pretty amazing. It's clear they had some issues with their coding to get them to process properly, but they're working on and should have it ready by February.

 

Stephen already admitte4d there are NO high texture graphics except in cutscenes. Stop making statements that are untrue. And please tell me where it is stated that the graphical issues will be fixed by February?

[Sai-to]

Okay I will use aion for my example.

 

Think you could ever raid with 700 people in swtor with smooth fps and better graphics? Probably not.

 

In aion you can. They took cry engine as their base and evolved it for that game.

 

Its smooth its responsive and can handle some serious numbers when it comes to pvp with hundreds of players.

 

They have an adaptable LoD system that you can set manually in prefs for char detail so if your system isn't up to snuff it will auto adjust textures and models to keep your fps up.

 

I never had to use it.

 

 

Did you play Aion at launch? I did. If you tried to go to Fortress raids with hundreds of people, all you saw were nameplates with very few models (since they couldn't load). That was before you eventually crashed from the overload of processing or memory leak.

 

I played for 3 months and nothing about it was fixed in that time.

 

Also, I would argue that the best graphics setting in Aion does not look nearly as good as the high-res textures in TOR. Then there's also the artstyle difference... Aion is a mix of "anime" and photorealism, while TOR is stylistic with definite influence of the Clone wars CGI.

[Andryah]

Before I go to bed I just want to say, how many mmo's do you have multiple threads daily questioning the game engine because theres so many problems.

 

Its not just a few people like myself saying yo *** guys. Its multiple sites and hundreds wondering the same thing.

 

1) every MMO had forums where literally dozens of threads are created by a small number of players on just about anything that one could possibly dream up a complaint for. It's what forum complainers do. As a group they can be remarkably redundant and feed on each other (as opposed to making actual unique and constructive feedback.

 

2) Yeah, hundreds sounds about right, and out of ~2 million. What a tragedy

Edited January 16, 2012 by Andryah

[Sai-to]

Stephen already admitte4d there are NO high texture graphics except in cutscenes. Stop making statements that are untrue. And please tell me where it is stated that the graphical issues will be fixed by February?

 

 

I already stated in my posts several times that high-res aren't currently being used. Don't be confrontational when you don't have the information (aka, only read one post). I was stating that the high-res models that are in the game currently (in cutscenes) look very good.

 

SR stated that the first of the fixes for the High-res texture issue will be in patch 1.2... which should be a month after 1.1 (since 1.1 is a month after release).

[Ranid]

This is true, this is why I doubt the dev's that worked on swtor theres so many mech/tech issues that it makes you wonder what they did with that 80 mil and the 7 years they had to work on it.

 

Im not saying I could do better I am saying other devs have done better with less money and less time.... it could be simply that the devs working on swtor just arent at the top of the pile so to speak. (I feel like a broke record)

 

Before I go to bed I just want to say, how many mmo's do you have multiple threads daily questioning the game engine because theres so many problems.

 

Its not just a few people like myself saying yo *** guys. Its multiple sites and hundreds wondering the same thing.

 

Night all.

 

From reading through this thread it is just you. I think you have more post than the rest combined.

[krinaman]

I have been.

 

Please elaborate on this if you want a actual response. Or are you just being ignorant and couldn't find a better way to post im a troll.

 

Not really. You've been stating your opinion. Which is fine, but your opinion doesn't equal fact.

 

But mostly, the "prove me wrong" logical fallacy just annoys me.

[commonperson]

And BTW Unreal on an MMO? Are you for real?

 

Blade & Soul use it, also Cryengine is used for Aion and that thing's a beast. If tweaked right and optimized the engine's upper limits are irrelivent. They could have, but it you're right it would have probably been more work and cost than it was worth especially given the low bar of entry they wanted to create.

[Rekooh]

Not really. You've been stating your opinion. Which is fine, but your opinion doesn't equal fact.

 

But mostly, the "prove me wrong" logical fallacy just annoys me.

 

Poster has been replying w/ relevant facts. Go reread the thread IF you need.

[Kanharn]

So cute to hear players talk about things they are clueless about.

 

agreed

[Rekooh]

From reading through this thread it is just you. I think you have more post than the rest combined.

 

No it's not just him. It's the users among the alleged 5% that have chosen to voice our complaints about horrible graphical / fps issues with the game itself. Get it right.

[RealAeiouy]

they made it heavily instanced by choice?

 

Of course. That is the only way to do actual story telling in gameplay.

[Jumajin]

Blade & Soul use it, also Cryengine is used for Aion and that thing's a beast. If tweaked right and optimized the engine's upper limits are irrelivent. They could have, but it you're right it would have probably been more work and cost than it was worth especially given the low bar of entry they wanted to create.

 

DC Universe Online also uses Unreal

[Draythion]

if this game flopps, it will only be the engines fault, other things can be fixed (content, bugs) but you can't change the engine.

[Sai-to]

if this game flopps, it will only be the engines fault, other things can be fixed (content, bugs) but you can't change the engine.

 

 

This is false. You can indeed change the engine. It's nothing but a pre-gathered set of coding tools. You can always add new coding tools to the engine.

 

It's best not to repeat stuff you learned second-hand when you're a layman on the subject.

[RealAeiouy]

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

It is the internet, no one says you have to believe me. I could claim to be the CEO of EA and know first hand, and you wouldn't believe me anyway, so no point defending my point, you believe what I have to say or you don't on its own merit.

 

How long were you a customer service rep at mythic before you got fired?

[Zorvan]

Originally Posted by otakuon

Look...the Hero "Engine" is not a graphics platform like Unreal. It is a MMO development toolkit. Graphics and such are designed using plug-ins, which can be other "engines" (like Unreal), Maya, or whatever graphic design suite you want to use. What the Hero Engine is, is a collection of scripting tools and the server back-end. It was designed from the ground up as a MMO platform. It has actually won a number of awards for being a best-in-class MMO toolkit. One of its strengths is that it allows real-time, collaborative content creation and allows for rapid deployment of updates. That is, new content can be created and added to the game on the fly while the servers are running. One of the examples given is that a designer can build a house while another works on the landscape outside and both will see each others changes in real time. So really, BW made a good decision by going with a software platform that was purpose built for online game play.

 

/thread +1

 

Once Bioware begins adding content at an unprecedented rate, naysayers will begin to understand.

 

And yet, even though one of the biggest names in gaming bought the engine and used it, not one other "AAA" developer has touched, or will touch, the engine with a ten foot pole. Why do you think that is, hmm?

 

And pumping out content at an "unprecedented rate" means absolutely squat if it looks like **** and is full of bugs.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Zorvan

[Halofax]

Why did they choose a engine that is so heavily instanced instead of building their own like Blizzard did?

 

Im just wondering because I keep hearing about all the money they spent and the heart of this game the main engine seems very cheap.

 

Any reason for this?

 

WoW didnt even design their own UI.

 

Everything about Vanilla WoW was exactly the same as in Everquest.

[RealAeiouy]

No, they bought the engine when it wasn't even close to complete. It had almost no features, had no security built in, and had almost no documentation. They also have not taken any updates from the creator of the engine for over three years. This is from the mouth of the heroengine creator himself. He even tried to talk them out of buying it, but when they insisted on waving huge checks in his face, he said okay.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

First quote is from article, second quote is from Heroengine dev in comment section of article.

 

So they took the foundation and made it their own. How is that a bad thing. That happens all the time in software development. They didn't take updates because they didn't need them and they likely modified so much they would not be compatible anyways.

 

Seems like they used it go get started and then expanded it on their own. What this means is all the people talking about the hero engine really have no idea what the current modified engine is like at all.

 

They didn't get the engine years ago to launch a game they got it to create a foundation to develop a game. Are they going to sit around and wait for them to go back and comment the code (which is dumb to begin with) they got what they needed and started building on it.

[Rekooh]

So they took the foundation and made it their own. How is that a bad thing. That happens all the time in software development. They didn't take updates because they didn't need them and they likely modified so much they would not be compatible anyways.

 

Seems like they used it go get started and then expanded it on their own. What this means is all the people talking about the hero engine really have no idea what the current modified engine is like at all.

 

They didn't get the engine years ago to launch a game they got it to create a foundation to develop a game. Are they going to sit around and wait for them to go back and comment the code (which is dumb to begin with) they got what they needed and started building on it.

 

 

The poster never said it was a bad thing to use a non-inhouse gaming engine. You might want to reread the article again. It's bad when you use a foundation when even the developers of the foundation believed it wasn't ready for others to use it!

 

If the foundation was so good why hasn't any other top gaming developer (as Zorvan mentioned above) used it for themselves.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Rekooh

[Barracudastr]

The poster never said it was a bad thing to use a non-inhouse gaming engine. You might want to reread the article again. It's bad when you use a foundation when even the developers of the foundation believed it wasn't ready for others to use it!

 

If the foundation was so good why hasn't any other top gaming developer (as Zorvan mentioned above) used it for themselves.

 

yup.

 

Because it wasn't/isn't good. There were much better solutions available to them.

 

The reason they wanted it is so they could "create content in real time and in a hurry"

 

And after 7 years of swtor devs building this engine from the crap it was when they first bought it its still crap and riddled with bugs and unoptimized code. Most devs that build a game from a engine at least make sure the engine is working as intended not half ***'d and thrown together unoptimized to be released as a product to the mass's.

 

And the evidence is the game we see today, cant support their high res textures, massive lag with 50+ players in the area, bad shadows, Resource heavy shadows, countless UI bugs all of that comes from the engine.