If Armstech makes Barrels, and Artificer makes Hilts...

[TheRealBoz]

Then quit your whining and go biochem like the rest of the flock.

 

Ok back on the main topic. If armorsmiths take away the armor mods from cybertech, then cybertech will pretty much be useless. Cybertech needs something special about them so people will go it.

 

Grenades? Mods? Earpieces? Droid companion gear? Ship gear?

I don't think it would hurt artifice to lose Enhancements and give to Cybertech.

[Almagnus]

Grenades? Mods? Earpieces? Droid companion gear? Ship gear?

I don't think it would hurt artifice to lose Enhancements and give to Cybertech.

 

Thematically, that makes the most sense.

 

What would be **really** nice for armstech is another cycle of color crystals of same/different colors and/or same/different stats. So while Artifice has all the endurance/crit color crystals, Armstech can produce some power/surge/alacrity/etc color crystals.

[_Flin_]

_Flin_ isn't going to get it. I posted this very same concept last week, and he was a big opponent of it then as well.

 

What _Flin_ doesn't understand (or most likely does, but wants to keep it clouded) is that "Orange" gear is nothing without the mods that go into it. Barrels, Mods, Armoring, Crystals, and Enhancements are the REAL power in the Orange gear.

 

What I DO understand is that you want to gimp my profession to make yours better in every possible way except for grenades.

 

More companion armor (cybertech equips 3, armor 19, synth 18).

Better 'useless' vanity (orange armor vs. ship).

Better mods (armoring vs. modifications).

Better armor for players (6 slots with armor for 50% of classes vs. 1 slot without armor for 100%)

That leaves the Grenades. Well, take them. They are ok, but will not be missed too much by me.

 

Now why do Artifice and Armstech do have these mods? Because they have hardly anything else.

 

Armoring is the one benefit Cybertech has while leveling. All the rest is just fluff. Good to make a few coins with. Nothing else. And you do not understand how bad modifications are. I can learn new schematics every 4 levels. And they can't even be RE'd into more skills (like armors), just better numbers. And they cost 2 commendations. So they are worthless.

 

And, there is more. Armor and Synth are the only skills for tanking equipment. No mods for that.

 

So of course I don't GET it. Apart from the fact that you all are lobbying to gimp my profession to make yours, which is ok, but not great (as is Cybertech), better.

 

If you want to lobby for something, how about "give us crits on orange armor". Because then you would provide the best armor in the game. Not purely. But every player wanting BIS needed to buy 3 items from your profession. (actually half the players and 6 slots).

[TheRealBoz]

What I DO understand is that you want to gimp my profession to make yours better in every possible way except for grenades.

Feel free to feel that way.

More companion armor (cybertech equips 3, armor 19, synth 18).

If you ignore mods and armoring, yes, you only make slot equipment for droids. And Earpieces. But we shouldn't mention earpieces, should we? That would be far too objective.

Better 'useless' vanity (orange armor vs. ship).

How the hell do you compare these two different things is beyond me. Especially because you compare an aspect item with an item that improves your stats in a single player minigame that noone can see you play.

Better mods (armoring vs. modifications).

I still don't get how Armoring is better than Modification. Are you taking just the 7vs2 commendation price tag into account? Because if you are, they're both 8 Daily commendations on Ilum. Just so you know. Also, Modification doesn't affect the armor level, but has better/more stats.

Better armor for players (6 slots with armor for 50% of classes vs. 1 slot without armor for 100%)

Six for hal... one slot? What? Modifications go into ALL slots for ALL characters if you so choose! Earpieces go into one! Nevermind the fact that it's thousands of times easier to develop earpieces and mods than armor slots.

That leaves the Grenades. Well, take them. They are ok, but will not be missed too much by me.

You don't like grenades. Fine. You don't like the main thing that makes Cybertech the second best crew skill, miles above all others.

Well that just shows us how objective you are at estimating the usefulness of your own crew skill.

Now why do Artifice and Armstech do have these mods? Because they have hardly anything else.

So...

Artifice + Armstech = Weapons and Weaponings and hardly anything else (Artifice gets Enhancements too)

Armormech + Synthweaving = Armors and nothing else (nothing else)

Yeah. Hardly anything. Funny how those compare, right?

Armoring is the one benefit Cybertech has while leveling. All the rest is just fluff. Good to make a few coins with. Nothing else. And you do not understand how bad modifications are. I can learn new schematics every 4 levels. And they can't even be RE'd into more skills (like armors), just better numbers. And they cost 2 commendations. So they are worthless.

Totally objective argument there.

Armormech and Synthweaving has nothing to make good money on while leveling. Don't even have any additional fluff. Nothing good to make a few coins with. Nothing at all. And you do not understand how bad armor pieces are. I can learn new schematics every 4 levels. And they randomly RE into completely useless stat combination schematics (unlike mods, which progress linearly into better numbers). And they cost pittance in commendations while leveling, and they don't even compare to Corellia/Daily commendation available gear. So they are worthless.

And, there is more. Armor and Synth are the only skills for tanking equipment. No mods for that.

Eh? There are. You're not looking hard enough. Or at all, it seems. Funny how you seem to consistently be able to demonstrate your ability to not see things which go against your argument. Resilient? Robust? Weighted? Resistance? Are no bells ringing?

So of course I don't GET it. Apart from the fact that you all are lobbying to gimp my profession to make yours, which is ok, but not great (as is Cybertech), better.

Again, Biochem>Cybertech>>>>Artifice>Armstech>Armormech, Synthweaving.

If you want to lobby for something, how about "give us crits on orange armor". Because then you would provide the best armor in the game. Not purely. But every player wanting BIS needed to buy 3 items from your profession. (actually half the players and 6 slots).

That would actually break the game.

Edited January 17, 2012 by TheRealBoz

[Brakyss]

 

...

 

Armormech and Synthweaving has nothing to make good money on while leveling. Don't even have any additional fluff. Nothing good to make a few coins with. Nothing at all. And you do not understand how bad armor pieces are. I can learn new schematics every 4 levels. And they randomly RE into completely useless stat combination schematics (unlike mods, which progress linearly into better numbers). And they cost pittance in commendations while leveling, and they don't even compare to Corellia/Daily commendation available gear. So they are worthless.

 

...

 

 

Pretty much this!

 

One other thing, why are armstechs allowed to make the DAMAGE part of a Weapon and armormechs are not allowed to make the PROTECTION part of armor???

 

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to take that away from armstechs, but the logic behind the decision to allow them to make those things and at the same time NOT allow armormechs/synthys to make the armor mods is beyond my understanding.

 

Sorry to all armstechs if i just made all the cybertechs start whining to get the barrels too

[RunningJaguar]

Couldnt enhancements be moved from Artifice to Cybertech? It really doesnt take a lot of utility away from Artifice (where it seems kind of tacked on) and gives Cybertech a niche of modifying equipment.

 

Also, I wouldnt put ship armor in the category of vanity items seeing as how they actually improve your ship (and not graphically, which is the definition of a vanity item)

[Geekcheck]

However, I think they should give Synthweavers/armormech's the ability to manufacture they're own plating. It's stupid as is. We can create a full integrated armor chest piece (green/blue/purple item). We can create a chassis for an armor chest piece (orange item) but we can't make the individual armor plates to put in the chest piece?!? How does that make sense?

When I read this I thought, "This is a really good idea that makes sense." It doesn't solve the problem of crafting or Armormech in general, but it is a simple change that would go a long way to stemming the tide of frustration with this profession.

[pudim]

It looks like that at some point, Synthweaving used to make armorings, because you can only Reverse an orange item if it has an armoring attached

[Amythiel]

I see no reason in not making armoring mods craftable by armormech (aim/cunning), synthweaving(will/str) AND Cybertech (all types). Only problem would be synthweaving would need a second source of materials or modified schematics so they could use crystals. Edited January 17, 2012 by Amythiel

[Sticksabbi]

When I read this I thought, "This is a really good idea that makes sense." It doesn't solve the problem of crafting or Armormech in general, but it is a simple change that would go a long way to stemming the tide of frustration with this profession.

 

Yeah, My other thought for how to "fix" armormech/synthweaving is to make it so that you could add augment slots to certain armor pieces. By that I mean you could create an item, use said item on an armor piece, and now said armor piece has an augment slot. Similar to how blacksmith's could add gem slots to belts in wow.

 

Armstech/artifice could create weapon rails. Cybertech could make the attachements to go on the weapon rails.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Sticksabbi

[Ucsimplyme]

What I DO understand is that you want to gimp my profession to make yours better in every possible way except for grenades.

 

More companion armor (cybertech equips 3, armor 19, synth 18).

Better 'useless' vanity (orange armor vs. ship).

Better mods (armoring vs. modifications).

Better armor for players (6 slots with armor for 50% of classes vs. 1 slot without armor for 100%)

That leaves the Grenades. Well, take them. They are ok, but will not be missed too much by me.

 

Now why do Artifice and Armstech do have these mods? Because they have hardly anything else.

 

Armoring is the one benefit Cybertech has while leveling. All the rest is just fluff. Good to make a few coins with. Nothing else. And you do not understand how bad modifications are. I can learn new schematics every 4 levels. And they can't even be RE'd into more skills (like armors), just better numbers. And they cost 2 commendations. So they are worthless.

 

And, there is more. Armor and Synth are the only skills for tanking equipment. No mods for that.

 

So of course I don't GET it. Apart from the fact that you all are lobbying to gimp my profession to make yours, which is ok, but not great (as is Cybertech), better.

 

If you want to lobby for something, how about "give us crits on orange armor". Because then you would provide the best armor in the game. Not purely. But every player wanting BIS needed to buy 3 items from your profession. (actually half the players and 6 slots).

 

Through the use of Armoring Mods, Cybertech can fill every slot that Armormech can (short of enhancements, purchasable for 2 commendations) except they can do it for all four classes instead of only 2. They can also fill the Ear slot, all companion armor slots (both droids and normals through the use of moddable armor), and all ship part slots. Heck, you can even craft supplemental mods for weapons! If you are talking about "filling" slots on a character, Cybertech can fill at least two, if not three times the number of slots an armortech can fill. This is not even considering grenades and mounts.

 

Claiming anything else is fooling yourself.

[_Flin_]

I still don't get how Armoring is better than Modification. Are you taking just the 7vs2 commendation price tag into account? Because if you are, they're both 8 Daily commendations on Ilum. Just so you know. Also, Modification doesn't affect the armor level, but has better/more stats.

 

- Modification doesn't define the armor

- Modification doesn't define the level of the orange item, which might have consequences for lower lvl pvp (edit: thinking about it, this one is probably BS)

- Modifications are only available every 4 levels

- Modifications cost only 2 commendations, making them basically worthless in a monetary sense. Because for those few commendations, you just pick up a few with the leftovers. I don't craft my own myself, because i get them "for free" with commendations that will be useless if i dont spend them. The mats are worth more than modifications.

 

You can have them anyday. Making them is of no use for any purpose at any stage of the game. Not while leveling, not on maxlevel, not for making money.

 

 

 

The problem of armormech isnt not having armoring. But the raid = gear, pvp = gear, daily quests = gear, crafting = no, please dont - philosophy. So its more a problem of not having armor. Not being able to craft lvl 54 items, as is for all other crafts as well.

 

It's a theme park mmo where you get drowned in equipment, with the sole exception of crafting. Which I do not understand.

 

I'm all for buffing armormech and synth. And artifice and armstech. Cybertech as well. I wouldn't even care if armor and synth get armorings, as long as cybertech keeps them.

Edited January 17, 2012 by _Flin_

[_Flin_]

Claiming anything else is fooling yourself.

 

The claim was that if armoring goes to armormech and synth, they are superior in everything except grenades. I am sorry that the level of abstraction was too high to be easily understood.

[Ucsimplyme]

The claim was that if armoring goes to armormech and synth, they are superior in everything except grenades. I am sorry that the level of abstraction was too high to be easily understood.

 

Not if Armoring mods from Armormechs and Synthweavers are restricted in some way. If Armormechs could only make Cunning/Aim armoring mods while Synths could do Strength/Wisdom. A change like this would be perfectly in line with this skills without breaking Cybertech, especially if Cybertech kept its current options.

 

And, again, you seem to forget that Cybers can make ship parts, droid parts, and custom bikes. While these might be inconsequential to you, these are significant as no one else can provide these services. I know purple ship parts are selling for 80k+ on my server. Cybers get to own these niche markets while equally competing with Armormechs and Synths using armoring mods. That is what Armors/Synths have a problem with.

[_Flin_]

And, again, you seem to forget that Cybers can make ship parts, droid parts, and custom bikes. While these might be inconsequential to you, these are significant as no one else can provide these services. I know purple ship parts are selling for 80k+ on my server. Cybers get to own these niche markets while equally competing with Armormechs and Synths using armoring mods. That is what Armors/Synths have a problem with.

 

I dont forget that. Custom bikes, however are BoP, so this is no market. Apart from that, they are just different skins, so the benefit is rather mediocre.

Droid parts are a submarket of the companion armor market, of which Armor and synth have a way bigger part.

Ship parts are fun. But useless. If its about money, personally I prefer to sell my Promethium for 13.5 k a piece and save the production time for RE blue earpieces or purples.

 

Side note: It would make sense to let every profession make ship parts. Armor for armormechs. Laser for armstech. Shields for Artifice. etc.

 

The argument, from my side, is more about usefulness than money. And armorings are the only really useful thing while leveling, earpieces (and a grenade twice in each wz) in the endgame.

[leihn]

Ideal and Obvious Solution That Should've Happened In Beta:

 

Armstech - Barrels

Artifice - Hilts

Armormech - Armoring

Synthweaving - Enhancements

Cybertech - Mods

Biochem - Consumables

 

Synthweaving already uses the materials to make Enhancements and Armormech and Cybertech share the same materials to make armoring.

 

This shouldn't significantly devalue Cybertech's Mods and brings a lot of utility to Armormech and Synthweaving.

 

You can redistribute all the secondary items however you want between them, my recommendation:

 

Armstech - Non-Lightsaber Weapons

Artifice - Lightsabers

Armormech - Non-force Armor

Synthweaving - Force Armor

Cybertech - Earpieces, Droid Parts, Ship Armor

Biochem - Implants

 

While earpieces for Cybertech seems less versatile than the other options (as in it's a pure stat stick and has limited combat impact) it does apply to every single class/advanced class in the game, if it's really a big imbalance and Droid Parts and Ship Armor don't help offset that (which they probably don't, realistically) then we can probably give Cybertech Relic recipes too or something.

 

IT IS PROBABLY TOO LATE TO MAKE THIS RADICAL OF A CHANGE, BUT I AM KIND OF SURPRISED IT WASN'T OVERHAULED IN BETA.

[_Flin_]

The only thing that is unbalanced is the amount of artifacts you get drowned in, aand none of it from crafting.

 

A friend of mine just turned 50 today. BAM, 6 artifacts from pvp. THIS is the problem.

 

Even if armormech and synth got armorings, guess what, they would still stink like a rotten skunk 2 weeks deceased and shat upon thrice.

 

Because crafting stinks. Armorings stink. They are useless at lvl 50, because you get heaps of artifact armor and all armorings will come from zthem, not from whoever crafts armorings.

 

As long as its that way, armorings are leveling only, and for that just about as good as making complete armors in terms of mats invested, because they take less mats, but provide less benefits as a real armor as well.

 

So actually this whole discussion is a machiavellian strawman discussion. Not armorings for cybertechs is the problem, but getting no good gear from crafting.

[Kryptorchid]

Yeah, this never made any sense to me after they revamped (*cough*ruined*cough*) the crafting goods each profession made.

 

Simple Solution:

 

Armstech = Barrels & modifiable weapons for ****'s sake

Armormech = Cunning/Aim Armor Mods

Synthweaving = Willpower/Strength Armor Mods

Cybertech = Cunning/Aim Modification and Enhancement Mods

Artifice = Willpower/Strength Modification and Enhancement Mods

[Eliminate]

Copy paste xD

 

Syntweaver can make all kinds of armor from light to heavy.

Armormech only got medium and heavy.

i am armormech .

I believe the armors i can make are better then any

modded one.

 

cheers

[_Flin_]

I believe the armors i can make are better then any

modded one.

 

True until the transfer of mods from raiddrops and pvp items into orange gear will be made possible, including set boni, as has been announced already.

 

Nevertheless critted purples are nice and will continue to be.

[Terrahero]

Cybertech needs it just as hard. And im anoyed with seeing the argument

 

"you can still make mods, earpieces, droid parts, ship parts and grenades"

 

Well, you can craft legs, chest, hands, feet etcetc. Both medium AND heavy armors. Maybe you feel like you are lacking compared to Armstech. But dont go taking away from another crewskill unrelated to that matter. Especially one that isnt all that fancy to begin with itself.

[Chiefy]

Couldnt enhancements be moved from Artifice to Cybertech? It really doesnt take a lot of utility away from Artifice (where it seems kind of tacked on) and gives Cybertech a niche of modifying equipment.

 

Also, I wouldnt put ship armor in the category of vanity items seeing as how they actually improve your ship (and not graphically, which is the definition of a vanity item)

 

enhancements are the only, ONLY thing an artifice can make that sells and is worth making

 

people dont even bother to craft or get the epic schematic for hilts because for 8 daily commendations on ilum you get a better hilt than anything we can craft, 8 tokens being complete your set of dailys and your sorted... 1 day... they dont sell, they never will and are completely pointless

 

offhand you will, like me burn through nearly 500 blue crafting mats (not to mention even the greens use up 6 upari's per craft and even on epic archaeology missions the best you can hope for is 6 or so upari as it all seems to come back in artifacts and not crystals) and still be sitting there with awful stats as it RE's into something like crit/shield/accuracy or shield/power (i.e 1 tank stat that no one wants to go with their dps spec)

 

take offhands for all i care, even take the useless hilts. But if you take enhancements artifice can burn in hell for the millions i have spent on RE'ing..

 

and one more post about gimping artifice even more than already is, you can burn in hell too!

[RunningJaguar]

enhancements are the only, ONLY thing an artifice can make that sells and is worth making

 

people dont even bother to craft or get the epic schematic for hilts because for 8 daily commendations on ilum you get a better hilt than anything we can craft, 8 tokens being complete your set of dailys and your sorted... 1 day... they dont sell, they never will and are completely pointless

 

offhand you will, like me burn through nearly 500 blue crafting mats (not to mention even the greens use up 6 upari's per craft and even on epic archaeology missions the best you can hope for is 6 or so upari as it all seems to come back in artifacts and not crystals) and still be sitting there with awful stats as it RE's into something like crit/shield/accuracy or shield/power (i.e 1 tank stat that no one wants to go with their dps spec)

 

take offhands for all i care, even take the useless hilts. But if you take enhancements artifice can burn in hell for the millions i have spent on RE'ing..

 

and one more post about gimping artifice even more than already is, you can burn in hell too!

you mad bro?

 

I really dont hate artifice, I just think that armormech and synthweaving should be able to craft armoring, and in exchange cyber can have the niche of modifying equipment that other professions craft, which would be mods, enhancements, and augments. I dont particularly care as long as armormech and synth get armoring and cyber gets a fair return so there isnt a counternerf to the other professions.

[Keyaira]

Wow! You want useless...be an ArmsTech. Barrels and that's it. The only orange schems are 48+ at that point they're worthless. At least give ArmsTech ship guns or something. Can't reverse engineer VibroBlades so forces to find/purchase blue schems and no purple at all.

 

I'm 400 and it's the biggest waste of time with almost no benefit. ArmsTech needs to be addressed...soon. Show all ArmsTechs some luv'n!!

[RycheMykola]

Wow! You want useless...be an ArmsTech. Barrels and that's it. The only orange schems are 48+ at that point they're worthless. At least give ArmsTech ship guns or something. Can't reverse engineer VibroBlades so forces to find/purchase blue schems and no purple at all.

 

I'm 400 and it's the biggest waste of time with almost no benefit. ArmsTech needs to be addressed...soon. Show all ArmsTechs some luv'n!!

So true!

 

Heck, even adding a preview to the weapon, so people can see what it looks like would be sweet!