aspectsofwar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Its obvious Bioware will nerf Operatives and Scoundrels. The "NERF THEM" threads are pointless now that everyone is aware. The question is HOW do you think Bioware will nerf them? And do you have any realistic suggestions that would nerf them yet keep them viable? Its clear the obvious problem is Acid Blade/Hidden Strike combo. Its a massive hitting attack, that also knocks down, applies a DoT and grants 50% armor penetration. Since this game already borrows everything from WoW, I would suggest splitting up Hidden Strike into seperate moves like a WoW rogue. In WoW, there are two moves which cannot be used at the same time, Cheap Shot which is just a stealth opener stun (like hidden strike knocks you down) OR Ambush which is a high damage stealth opener with NO stun. I think Bioware should give us two lesser moves as options instead of one which has everything combined. This coupled with removing Acid Blade from being applied to your stealth opener would completely solve the problem. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picnicpanic Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 the acid blade procs off backstabbing/ hidden strike so the opening hidden strike does not have the armor pen, the vanish hidden strike is their hardest hitting move after they have acid buff up- idk repubs equivalent names as a pvp tank my problem is that an operatives attacks, all of the melee ones, cannot be parried or blocked, a very very bs thing going on, throw in 50% armor pen they kill tanks as fast as any other non tank spec- its pretty sad when tooltips says mitigates melee then the premier melee class comes over and crits your tooltips to oblivion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlorosprite Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 leave my class alone. hitting 2k on my opener @ level 17 on level 40s is lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaku Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 They aren't OP'd, it's a L2P issue. When they start their opener, you have to be assertive and tell them that NO means NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabstabstab Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Remove the stun from there opener and decrease damage by 20%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Frankly, I don't want to see outright NERFS. As in, I do not want to see "-Hidden Strike damage reduced 20%", in the patch notes. What I would like to see is bringing some characters more in line with their supposed roles, re-working the way some resources work. For instance, all the crying about Sorcerers being OP? It's not their spells, it's not their abilities or their utility. It's their RESOURCE, namely force. They get a huge pool of it, and it regenerates linearly no matter if you have 99% or 1%. Meanwhile, every other class has a resource that does NOT regenerate linearly (heat, energy) or one that has to be built up before you can use your abilities (action points on warrior classes). If Sorcerers got a resource pool that worked similar to Assassin energy pool, they would suddenly be a lot less scary, simply because they couldn't use what they want, when they want. That's the biggest reason the class can do what it can do. No other class can spam their heaviest-hitting spell with no regard for the resources it costs, except the Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Remove the stun from there opener and decrease damage by 20%? ...and now Ops are completely useless in both PvP and PvE. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 leave my class alone. hitting 2k on my opener @ level 17 on level 40s is lovely You don't have an opener at level 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabstabstab Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ...and now Ops are completely useless in both PvP and PvE. Nice work. I thought so, every class who gets to be overpowerd for awhile turns into crappyness all around eventually, isnt that how most mmo's do it? Plus , no combat logs or damage meters, who would ever know how crappy they are in raids for dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nastar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 **** the OPeratives, nerf the **** out of sorcerers...... i just cant *********** believe how a sorcerer can outlast 2 of my bursts, then stun me, run away for 5 seconds and go from 10% hp to 75% before i can get to him and then he casts his *********** absorption sheild AGAIN wich can withstand a ridicoulous amount of dmg.... and somehow they cant be stunned while healing and they can cast dots on me while in stealth at a long range (not up close so you can see me). And make the republic more "attractive" we look like a bunch of sissies compared to the Empire, we're 2-1 on every *********** server and we're under constant siege on Ilum, there's always 5-10 imps camping outside the imperial base at all time VS 5 reps (AT MOST!). i'm seriously considering unsubbing until you fix this, it's impossible for me to do dailies, i've been in 15 WZ so far and i haven't won a single time for my "0/3" warzones won quest... AND YES QUITE FRANKLY, I'M MAD! :mad::mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My feeling is that Bioware will increase their non-stealth-attack damage by around 5% or so. And nothing else. They need a buff. I feel so sorry for the n00b stealthers who open up on my Vanguard and when I stand up, still at 80% health, I type "/laugh", DoT them and destroy them. Definitely a l2p issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torcer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) NT... Edited January 9, 2012 by Torcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I do not think that they are going to be making any changes any time soon. People have been playing this game in one beta format or another for a long time now. The classes are working the way that they were intended. There are many other issues that need to be worked out before they start worrying about class balancing, not that I think it is even necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urothefox Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Remove the stun from there opener and decrease damage by 20%? You spec for the knockdown to Hidden Strike. Theoretically, you could not spec the stun and use debilitate right after. Same basic effect. While I play an operative and do love the class, I can sort of see where folks are coming from. Truth be told, I would really like Lethality and general hybridization be made a bit more attractive. That would cut down on the pure Concealment-specced operatives running around. I tried Medicine/Concealment (1/2 and 1/2 mostly), and it just wasn't cutting it (no pun intended)...not as much as pure Concealment. Also, maintaining the amount of damage that we do but changing a portion of it to a DOT will let us keep the damage but give a bit of a fighting chance to the opponent. If the burst is lost, we need to have some abilities moved around so that we can have better sustained damage or surviveability. As it is, we are really just a one trick pony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth__Carnal Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) ...and now Ops are completely useless in both PvP and PvE. Nice work. As it should be.. Long Live The Empire !! Edited January 9, 2012 by Darth__Carnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanutabc Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 if anything, people are overlooking shadows/assassins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 They won't get nerfed if Bioware is some sort of competent. But consumables will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 While I play an operative and do love the class, I can sort of see where folks are coming from. Truth be told, I would really like Lethality and general hybridization be made a bit more attractive. That would cut down on the pure Concealment-specced operatives running around. I tried Medicine/Concealment (1/2 and 1/2 mostly), and it just wasn't cutting it (no pun intended)...not as much as pure Concealment. I agree completely, I'd like to try something else out without gimping my character. Too much is wrapped up into the end of one tree. Combine that with the fact that all stealth classes get an immunity that also removes bleeds every 1min makes the dot tree much less appealing. I think the right kind of nerf/buff could make some on both sides a bit happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meuwdy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Remove the stun from there opener and decrease damage by 20%? The stun is there thanks to a talent. The damage is also increased due to talents. The issue has more to do with buff stacking that the base burst damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naserick Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 they wont change a thing if they know what they're doing. it's to soon to tell whats op and whats not. From what i've seen and experienced they went for a rock paper scissors approach with pvp.Despite what people are saying i'm not seeing operative as op at this time.. strong in the right situations but not op.As for the sorc if you have ever seen a merc burn one down in secs you wouldnt be saying they are op heheh.I guess which class is op and which one isn't is mostly based on perspective atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 **** the OPeratives, nerf the **** out of sorcerers...... i just cant *********** believe how a sorcerer can outlast 2 of my bursts, then stun me, run away for 5 seconds and go from 10% hp to 75% before i can get to him and then he casts his *********** absorption sheild AGAIN wich can withstand a ridicoulous amount of dmg.... and somehow they cant be stunned while healing and they can cast dots on me while in stealth at a long range (not up close so you can see me). And make the republic more "attractive" we look like a bunch of sissies compared to the Empire, we're 2-1 on every *********** server and we're under constant siege on Ilum, there's always 5-10 imps camping outside the imperial base at all time VS 5 reps (AT MOST!). i'm seriously considering unsubbing until you fix this, it's impossible for me to do dailies, i've been in 15 WZ so far and i haven't won a single time for my "0/3" warzones won quest... AND YES QUITE FRANKLY, I'M MAD! :mad::mad: I had to giggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fnords Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 They won't get nerfed if Bioware is some sort of competent. But consumables will This! Coming from a Operative with over 400 expertise and all the goodies that Biochem has to offer. Without the WZ buff and stacked Biochem stims/adernals Operatives will be in line with other classes. Problem now is that we deal to much damage while opponent is unable to move (ie in the time the consumables are active). Without the buffs we are okey, a bit weak even. I have not even speced for Acid Blade because as I feel that I need the extra talents from hybrid spec in order to to survive a bit longer after the initial attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyeth Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 **** the OPeratives, nerf the **** out of sorcerers...... i just cant *********** believe how a sorcerer can outlast 2 of my bursts, then stun me, run away for 5 seconds and go from 10% hp to 75% before i can get to him and then he casts his *********** absorption sheild AGAIN wich can withstand a ridicoulous amount of dmg.... Sorcs... In a nutshell.. So much mobility in a sorc too.. CC masters.. Escape artist.. Nuke terrors.. Supreme medics.. So many people play Sorcs that they would never look at themselves as nerf worthy.. So they pick a common foe.. One that can actually kill them and hold hands on the forums in protest.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspectsofwar Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah I should have mentioned that Biochem is a huge part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nastar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 if anything, people are overlooking shadows/assassins. They're UP, bursts cant even kill people, we can't take much dmg, we're useless when we got dots on us etc etc. I had to giggle lol i kno, i've been in so many games consisting of sorcerer/bounty hunter/operative today and i've lost every single game because of incompetent reps who doesen't go for the healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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