The Secret to Guardian Tanking

[Rhesus]

Thanks a lot for putting one of the first detailed guides for guardian I've seen out there.

 

I have a question though:

 

In PVP your suggested build specs Shien Form but you have 3 talents in guard stance in the defense tree. Aren't those talents completely useless with Shien Form or am I missing something?

[TheTropheus]

Seraphimm, I don't know if you are familiar with the site elitist jerks for world of warcraft but I have found something similar for SWTOR.

 

Immortal Defense Compendium A Tanks Guide To The Galaxy

 

I think you should get in on this site and share your thoughts there.

 

Thanks, very good info there.

[Vassive]

Seraphimm, I don't know if you are familiar with the site elitist jerks for world of warcraft but I have found something similar for SWTOR.

 

Immortal Defense Compendium A Tanks Guide To The Galaxy

 

I think you should get in on this site and share your thoughts there.

 

 

I was gonna post an actual response.... but this guy pretty much sums everything up that I was gonna say in his really good guide.

 

I will add as a note... I see a ton of people here saying some modification of "WOW thanks for the alternate tanking spec!"

 

If you're looking to do damage ... stop tanking... or at least re roll trooper.... tanks are damage sponges ... not glorified dps... there is only one way to spec... you have 2 or so points you can kinda throw around... but really... yeah... this is it....you can take me saying this as one of two ways:

1) You can get offended and try to think of a way to make me look wrong mixed in with some vague references to how we'll all see with end game testing!!!11 /drool

or

2) read the amazing guide in the quote above and realize its correct and either re- roll or correct yourself.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Vassive

[Jediwran]

I was gonna post an actual response.... but this guy pretty much sums everything up that I was gonna say in his really good guide.

 

I will add as a note... I see a ton of people here saying some modification of "WOW thanks for the alternate tanking spec!"

 

If you're looking to do damage ... stop tanking... or at least re roll trooper.... tanks are damage sponges ... not glorified dps... there is only one way to spec... you have 2 or so points you can kinda throw around... but really... yeah... this is it....you can take me saying this as one of two ways:

1) You can get offended and try to think of a way to make me look wrong mixed in with some vague references to how we'll all see with end game testing!!!11 /drool

or

2) read the amazing guide in the quote above and realize its correct and either re- roll or correct yourself.

 

Or you could instead of attacking people....gee I don't know, reply with some substance of your own. If you think he's (as in OP) so wrong, get into the nitty gritty and tell him why, don't just whine about it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Jediwran

[Vassive]

If you had read the last page of this thread you'd find I was making these points to seraph... and if you had read my last post you would see that I said that I was going to but didn't see the need as that *********** sick guide was posted up and I would've just regurgitated the exact same info that was contained within said guide (although less eloquently).

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Vassive

[Kitty_Whoopass]

Thanks for the guide and the debate. It'll be interesting to see how things get tweaked and what builds become standard.

 

I hadn't thought of such a hybrid but you make a lot of good points and it looks interesting. Worth trying for sure - if for no other reason than to practice being a yo-yo.

[Locien]

Or you could instead of attacking people....gee I don't know, reply with some substance of your own. If you think he's (as in OP) so wrong, get into the nitty gritty and tell him why, don't just whine about it.

 

That's why I posted the link to that site/guide. It's a site for theory crafting builds and it would be a good place for the op to go and discuss his build with other people who believe a deep defensive build is the way to go.

[Saice]

Good post and guide.

[CajunJedi]

Excellent post. +10 to you for your hard work putting this together. Edited December 24, 2011 by CajunJedi

[Arkved]

Quick question to clear up some confusion I'm having: The "Protector" talent, when it says "Guardian Leap has a 100% chance of applying its effect to you as well," does that include the threat reduction?

[teoita]

Quick question to clear up some confusion I'm having: The "Protector" talent, when it says "Guardian Leap has a 100% chance of applying its effect to you as well," does that include the threat reduction?

 

From what little testing has been done, no. We can't be 100% sure as far as i know.

[Ullric]

Hi!

 

Great guide!!!

 

I have a simple question...

I noticed the suggested builds stay kinda half in two trees and none gets to the "top" talent in either tree.

I used to be a WoW player and in there, that's bad.

What's the story on that, here in SWTOR?

[Kamen_Jorus]

I understand the defense/vigilance hybrid seems to be the build of choice for tanking but... would a defense/focus hybrid be viable for tanking? I have a feeling I know the responses to this question, but I really like felling blow in the focus tree and thought I would take a shot in the dark and see what the community had to say.

[FalcoLombardi]

Nice little chart to have. But there is an error I noticed about Soresu. It doesn't lower the Focus gain of Force Leap. It still gives 3 focus as it's not one of your strike attacks, (Strike and Sundering Strike). Either that or I can't remember getting 4 focus from it . I think I got my build setup skill tree wise. Max at the Defense Tree except the thing that increases Hilt Strike's damage, don't put any points in that. And I have 7 points in the Focus (or maybe it's Vigilance) so I Resolute will heal me for 10% of my maximum health

[FalcoLombardi]

I understand the defense/vigilance hybrid seems to be the build of choice for tanking but... would a defense/focus hybrid be viable for tanking? I have a feeling I know the responses to this question, but I really like felling blow in the focus tree and thought I would take a shot in the dark and see what the community had to say.

 

I say, do what you want, and have fun

[teoita]

Hi!

 

Great guide!!!

 

I have a simple question...

I noticed the suggested builds stay kinda half in two trees and none gets to the "top" talent in either tree.

I used to be a WoW player and in there, that's bad.

What's the story on that, here in SWTOR?

 

That was explained throughout the guide: the top of the defense tree isn't too good, and by climbing up vigilance you get a lot of nice tanking tools. Both 31 defense and hybrid builds are viable, it's a matter of personal preference.

 

Any even in Wow there used to be hybrid specs..0/24/27 (ish) elemental mages were pvp monsters back in the day

 

@seraphinn: i have very limited Guardian tanking experience (i went up to 28ish on my knight in Beta), but i think an instant force stasis might have some value. Say you are facing a group of 4 elites, having a stasis on one of them can help with snap aggro on the entire group, especially if said mob is ranged and will be focused down later. It's all theorycrafting and i'm not sure if that alone is worth investing further into Defense, but it's something worth considering.

Edited December 25, 2011 by teoita

[SITHDUKE]

A list of available stats and which to prioritize would be really helpful too. Power Vs Crit for example.

[TheSeventhJedi]

You've certainly given me quite a bit to think about. Thanks for posting all this.

[KelticSamurai]

Great info for an up and coming Guardian looking how to map out the trees.

 

Thank you!

[Anzerx]

seems outdated with wrong information at points

 

needs to be updated!

 

dispatch > all in terms of dmg, and slash is actually the lowest dmg focuscost ability single target

 

as for stats

 

Str is best

 

power seems best secondary stat, nearly as good as str

 

after that accuracy > crit > surge

Edited December 27, 2011 by Anzerx

[Carousel_t]

Where's endurance? Should I always try and get more endurance first, or should it be the least of my concerns? Edited December 28, 2011 by Carousel_t

[Carousel_t]

Thanks seraphimm, it definately made me think about respecing. As I dove into guardian's abilities and how everything you mention works out on the battlefield i started to respec you build a little, so it would suit my play-style a little more.

 

Here it is:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cMGMkZhRrMrhzdMM.1

 

now for the explanation part.

 

So to start off, I switched command which sounds pretty good but in reality, you can either keep agro if you party attacks the same monster or tab to other enemy and use taunt. Basic strategy is to stun elite, finish off all weak mobs and then attack the elite one - so once again, one challenging shout should be enough for one battle. Also, I extracted remaining point from shield specialization as I don't believe 2% would give any noticable benefit. As I base my build on your theory (which I think is pretty amazing) I tried to enhance my sweep as much as possible (to make it just as threat generating ability as challenging call). So I put some points into Pacification (10% boost to sweep dmg, oh yes). Mommentum - this is controvertial, since I can't test this build at this time, because I'm still level 30 and at work :-P but so far, mommentum gave me a huge advantage in the battle. Leap>sweep>storm and at this point, you'd run out of focus - which is a huge dps-flow-block causing you to 1. lose riposte+overhead slash combo 2. lose blade barricade. dust storm - worst skill for a tank imo. you write about it as it's pretty nice boost, which i think is a lie and here's why - you dive in with leap, use force sweep and you're standing there with melee mobs missing you and now you're not able to use riposte which grants you 6% melee+ranged def while ranged mobs hit you = bad idea. as a guardian tank, you want to get hit, just as often and as lightly as possible because with each hit you gain focus and riposte. now accuracy - it's so little boost it's almost not noticable - and you loose 2 points which i rather put into gathering strenght. now i know you've said it's a bad idea to put points in here and i think you're wrong. i myself get impaired a lot while going thru nar shadaa or tatooine and few extra and STACKING percent of damage to every focus costing ability (sweep, blade storm, overhead slash - am i seeing it right? those are ONLY abilities we really use!). okey so to sum it up - free 10% damage per 1 stack so up to 50% more damage if you like to use sundering a lot before applying damage OR 2 percent more accuracy. burning purpose - here are our missing 2 points! ah yes, why oh why would i put two points in this? well, i like things burning and all BUT most of all, it's an additional damage (mostly appriciatable * sorry if spelled wrong * in fights with elites). even better, think about blade storm now, you get 133 damage over 6 seconds, now sum it up with 200 damage when using overhead and you get 333 damage over 6 seconds. so it's over 50 damage per second absolutely free-of-focus.. you can even switch to other target if your enemy is nearly dead.

 

so that's that and see you in game ^^

 

oh! btw. i totaly agree with you in terms of guardian strike. it's much less sunder and damage if you count dps.

 

EDIT: switched blade barricade with commanding awe since it grants permament 4% instead of 4% after the usage of riposte and as i understand it, commanding awe also reduces DOT. you can now choose to either boots barricade and get 4% more damage reduction or boots your sweep with pacification.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Carousel_t

[FalcoLombardi]

seems outdated with wrong information at points

 

needs to be updated!

 

dispatch > all in terms of dmg, and slash is actually the lowest dmg focuscost ability single target

 

as for stats

 

Str is best

 

power seems best secondary stat, nearly as good as str

 

after that accuracy > crit > surge

 

You seem to be thinking in terms of a damage Guardian. In my opinion, the stats you want as Tank are Endurance, Defense chance, Shield rating, Shield Absorption, and Strength. Strength may be the lowest priority but you still want it pretty high for damage so you're more of a threat

[Mallorik]

I dont know if you tested blade barrier on a level 50 but is most definately not 500 dmg, if you dont have blade barrier, you shouldnt be main tank. In hard mode esseles a head shot from the madolorian boss can take me to 25% but with blade barrier up it takes me to 75% and i have 18k hp.

 

also, i find a mostly straight up defnese build works much better in hard mode fp's and ops than these hybrids.

[Lord_Paladin]

Thanks for posting this guide. I knew what I was looking at the tree's, that if the Defense tree wasn't called "defense" that it looked less like a tanking tree than Vigilence, which had many more of the talents I would expect in one (I typed up a huge post for the beta boards about how poorly designed the defense tree is).

 

I'm really excited to try these out. Right now I'm experimenting with a Vig/Focus build for PvP that seems to be working really well (and I thought the idea of having three leaps in Huttball would be pretty cool ).

 

But once I settle in with my PvE group, I might try your vig/def build cause it sounds really fun (and unremittent is the greatest talent in the entire Jedi Knight class period ).