myriadical Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't mind the space combat too much. I assume most people just use it to break things up from questing\pvp'ing. What I would love to see are turrets for my companions though so they can actually help. Like how Luke and Han jumped into in the Millenium Falcon in A New Hope. Hell, they even did it for the 'Return' video for SW TOR with Satele Shan and Jace Malcolm controlling ship turrets on Nico Okarr's ship (not to mention my name is also Nico - which makes it even more awesomer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboro Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OP, the ideas contained in your wall of text could have been written on just a few lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OP, the ideas contained in your wall of text could have been written on just a few lines. Not to speak for anyone else, but that may not have been possible if one was attempting to avert the same debate already covered in a few other like thread pre-release. Thanks to this rather detailed post, much of the old ground already tilled may be used for growth; not more laborious preperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I didn't see any responses about how great it is or how it was keeping people subscribed... Have been seeing people say good bye though and mentioning space combat as one of the reasons. I've seen tons of posts saying it's great, fun, entertaining and so on. It's not ignorant. I've seen it. So, shall we agree that there has been a love fest for the Space Combat, but at the same time an outrage? Or shall we just agree there hasn't been neither a love fest or an outrage, but a rather chilled out response from the community in general, as I previously said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've seen tons of posts saying it's great, fun, entertaining and so on. It's not ignorant. I've seen it. So, shall we agree that there has been a love fest for the Space Combat, but at the same time an outrage? Or shall we just agree there hasn't been neither a love fest or an outrage, but a rather chilled out response from the community in general, as I previously said? The problem with your statement is that it is false while mine is not so I concur nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xhardumahl Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 OP: Well done, very lucid and erudite statement on the subject. I particularly liked the following: Personal Thoughts: If a system is added that didn't affect or conflict with the ground game/post launch bug fixes/budget restraints, was COMPLETELY OPTIONAL, and would make a large number of people happy, Why shouldn't we be allowed to voice our opinions on the matter? In my opinion Rail Shooters have limited replay value but yet I (not the only one) subscribed to SWG, with all it's flaws, for three years after NGE purely for PvP in Deep Space (one medium sized zone). I would like to also add a +1 to the "JTL saved SWG from a sudden CU death" statements in this discussion. I feel space combat is integral to the SW franchise, and that the statement "it isn't cinematic" is less a reason and more a reflection of a lack of willingness on behalf of the Dev's to try. Star Trek Online, with all its flaws, has figured out a way to keep space combat cinematic and well paced, despite the obviously huge areas involved, and the inherrent slow pace of capital ship combat. JTL showed that integrating mission-driven 3-axis space combat that tiers and progresses as it goes along is not only "doable", but marketable and sustainable. Dev's, please seriously consider this issue. not just because "some fans want it", but because it is a good marketing, branding, and profit-oriented choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I've seen tons of posts saying it's great, fun, entertaining and so on. It's not ignorant. I've seen it. So, shall we agree that there has been a love fest for the Space Combat, but at the same time an outrage? Or shall we just agree there hasn't been neither a love fest or an outrage, but a rather chilled out response from the community in general, as I previously said? The only people that seem to like it are those that play if very, very occasionally (or in some cases not at all ). Which is fair enough, it's not to bad when levelling (the first time) and not too bad if you only very rarely play it. It's terrible if you play it a lot though. Edited March 12, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) The problem with your statement is that it is false while mine is not so I concur nothing. Ok ok, I'm bailing. There has been no positive response to the space combat in TOR whatsoever, and what we are witnessing here on these boards is nothing short of a fully fledged outrage. People are leaving in droves because of it and, post-release, the crap really hit the fan regarding space combat. This compiled and "official" thread on the matter, with its whopping 256 posts, is a witness of what a failure of this magnitude can do. Are we okay? The only people that seem to like it are those that play if very, very occasionally (or in some cases not at all ). Which is fair enough, it's not to bad when levelling (the first time) and not too bad if you only very rarely play it. It's terrible if you play it a lot though. What has this gotta do with anything? The feature is what it is, right? It's a mini-game. People play it occasionally and many like it like that. I'd say I play it rather often, and I'm having fun with it even now. Would love for them to expand on it later on, as I've always said, but for what it is, I think it's pretty darn good. Edited March 12, 2012 by Trenter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Some people are getting a bit upset I think. Let's try this: What do you want out of space combat? go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Some people are getting a bit upset I think. Let's try this: What do you want out of space combat? go Upset? If you're talking about me, then no. The first sentance of my post was actually not sarcastic. I cave, that's all. I know I'm right, Galius will never agree. Galius thinks he's right, I will never agree. Really no point going at it any further than that. And for what I want? Same as always from me, 3d flight combat would be great if they do it well. I've been both PvEing and PvPing in 3d flight environments for quite some time, so I'd obviously be very happy to see it implemented in TOR. In addition to that I'd like to see more "tunnel" missions added aswell, since I very much enjoy them, and in particular something aching to the death star run in RotJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragun Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think it would be neat to have some mission be rail shooters, and others be a little more free form. It really wouldn't be too hard. Think starfox 64. Most of the missions were tube shooters, and then when you got to a boss they fixed the camera to the ship and let you move around yourself with zero change to the interface. All they had to do was make you auto turn around when you got to far away. I think that was a great model, and it would be awesome to be able to control your direction on missions where you are attacking a station or capital ship. They could even have missions including both.. just like star fox 64. hell. I am just going to play starfox 64 while I am waiting for crafting to finish. The big problem with the current state of the tube shooter is that they have no where to go progression wise. Better ships mean more boredom on your 6 minute flight. Fixing that I think should be the first and foremost consideration to any further development on space combat. Even giving us a huge number of targets and possible bonus quests (impossible to do all at once) would help, in that we could always accomplish more with better ship upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ok ok, I'm bailing. There has been no positive response to the space combat in TOR whatsoever, and what we are witnessing here on these boards is nothing short of a fully fledged outrage. People are leaving in droves because of it and, post-release, the crap really hit the fan regarding space combat. This compiled and "official" thread on the matter, with its whopping 256 posts, is a witness of what a failure of this magnitude can do. Are we okay? What has this gotta do with anything? The feature is what it is, right? It's a mini-game. People play it occasionally and many like it like that. I'd say I play it rather often, and I'm having fun with it even now. Would love for them to expand on it later on, as I've always said, but for what it is, I think it's pretty darn good. No no.. I concede as well. All those positive threads about how great space combat is and how it has enriched the game for them have made me see the light. In fact I can't believe how overwhelmingly positive the entire space combat mechanic has been received by the forum goers, reviewers, and in game players. Are we ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnoTaki Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 No no.. I concede as well. All those positive threads about how great space combat is and how it has enriched the game for them have made me see the light. In fact I can't believe how overwhelmingly positive the entire space combat mechanic has been received by the forum goers, reviewers, and in game players. Are we ok? Excuse me, Galius. What threads is he talking about? Can someone show me such a thread, which is about "how great space combat is and how it has enriched the game"? I want to see the Light too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Excuse me, Galius. What threads is he talking about? Can someone show me such a thread, which is about "how great space combat is and how it has enriched the game"? I want to see the Light too. I'm sure they are around here somewhere. I mean, of course they have to be since I've been told they are. But sadly my search fu is not that great so you'll have to find them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think it would be neat to have some mission be rail shooters, and others be a little more free form. It really wouldn't be too hard. Think starfox 64. Most of the missions were tube shooters, and then when you got to a boss they fixed the camera to the ship and let you move around yourself with zero change to the interface. All they had to do was make you auto turn around when you got to far away. I think that was a great model, and it would be awesome to be able to control your direction on missions where you are attacking a station or capital ship. They could even have missions including both.. just like star fox 64. hell. I am just going to play starfox 64 while I am waiting for crafting to finish. The big problem with the current state of the tube shooter is that they have no where to go progression wise. Better ships mean more boredom on your 6 minute flight. Fixing that I think should be the first and foremost consideration to any further development on space combat. Even giving us a huge number of targets and possible bonus quests (impossible to do all at once) would help, in that we could always accomplish more with better ship upgrades. This is indeed the biggest problem with the current system (barring the whole on-rails/off-rails thing). The can only really make it harder by: 1. Putting more enemies on the screen at once (already this "fun" limit has been reached in some missions and just having whole missions like that would be annoying not fun). 2. Putting harder enemies in (further ship upgrades negate this anyway, but worse there reaches a point where it just becomes too hard for most people and another point were it becomes too hard for anyone). 3. Making missions longer (there's a "fun" limit to this too, already some of the missions are getting on the long side, and no 20 min mission will ever be "fun" IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepardcomander Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I've seen tons of posts saying it's great, fun, entertaining and so on. It's not ignorant. I've seen it. So, shall we agree that there has been a love fest for the Space Combat, but at the same time an outrage? Or shall we just agree there hasn't been neither a love fest or an outrage, but a rather chilled out response from the community in general, as I previously said? Fortunately, bioware has been rather vocal in their intentions of looking at metrics to back up forum claims. Meaning that if they are to take serious any claims of "loving" the single player only mini rail shooter, they will first have to confirm that poster spends a significant portion of play time sliding down the lonely tunnels. Not just during the leveling process either but also at max level to make sure the "love" is genuine and not just for the exp/money. Edited March 13, 2012 by shepardcomander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) All we've got on the future of space combat is... well nothing, really. I'm paraphrasing Mr. Ohlen's sum total of comments here, but, "Super secret space project I can't tell you about" is not something to get excited about at all. Edited March 13, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Excuse me, Galius. What threads is he talking about? Can someone show me such a thread, which is about "how great space combat is and how it has enriched the game"? I want to see the Light too. I'm sure they are around here somewhere. I mean, of course they have to be since I've been told they are. But sadly my search fu is not that great so you'll have to find them yourself. Boys, boys! Where did I say "threads"?... What I said was there has been lots of posts by people saying they enjoy the space combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglec Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 'bout time this came up again. Single player rail shooter for an mmo is simply not good enough. Would love to hear plans from devs that impovements will be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galius Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Boys, boys! Where did I say "threads"?... What I said was there has been lots of posts by people saying they enjoy the space combat. Of course, silly of me to misquote or misstate you. My apologies. No worries though, I still believe you that there are tons of posts saying how great the current space combat is and how it does not need to be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 All we've got on the future of space combat is... well nothing, really. I'm paraphrasing Mr. Ohlen's sum total of comments here, but, "Super secret space project I can't tell you about" is not something to get excited about at all. I'm just surprised it wasn't called an "awesome SSSPICTUA!!!!111". Usually the more times awesome is used in MMO PR, the more underwhelming it will be or just not happen at all. I'm hoping they do have something big up their sleeves, but given how their PR has worked in the past I can't see why they'd keep it 100% under wraps if they did. The current system works ok for levelling, but it's horrible as a L50 thing (or for repeat levelling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenter Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Of course, silly of me to misquote or misstate you. My apologies. No worries though, I still believe you that there are tons of posts saying how great the current space combat is and how it does not need to be improved. Good. Then we are ok! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The immediate concern from me is the lack of variety. I would like more variety of missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) The immediate concern from me is the lack of variety. I would like more variety of missions. To get more genuine varity they are going to have to start copying Star Fox [1993] even more, with some "inside" or atmospheric missions (atm there are only.... 5ish.... actual missions, the rest are stripped out or mirrored). Edited March 14, 2012 by Goretzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 To the op speak for yourself, the current set up for space is pitiful. First and foremost this is supposed to be based on something called STAR WARS, meaning in case a dev does not understand the word in space. What am I looking for a revamp of space on key areas first and foremost the ability to control my ship, I dont want some DAMN computer flying my ship for me. Second a cockpit view. Third the ability to fly a fighter like craft, not just a pob. Fourthly some real space missions. The current ones are just repeats as you get higher in grade, parts wise, you just have to destroy more stuff. For all tense in purposes they are extremely generic. At least in swg there was some difference on each mission you took. This being said the current setup for space parts works for me. I would like to see a part setup as vast as swg was but given the nature of these.... people now and days they would never sit for having to work for years on ones ship part wise. Whats even more frustrating is the devs are putting more time and effort into operations, flash points, and mini pvp bgs for kids. Giving space absolutely zip. Yes this is a rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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