Chromiie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 /thread. This ruined WoW even further, which was already a dieing game (mainly thanks to SWTOR). Dying? Last time I check WoW had 10+ million subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazooki Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Raging about Warcraft (Which seems to be a lot lately since they are the King of the Hill and most likely always will be), Rift, or any other MMO that isn't Tor, doesn't make the end product that we got any better. The Stories are top notch here. MMO's do not survive on Stories... True, they survive on smooth combat, great end game (pvp / pve), and tons of content. All which SWTOR has. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiWonCanolli Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I'm not talking of ''Ah ah ah, Panda sucks'', but of the brilliantly conceived, fun and working Looking For Raid tool. This was a stroke of genius from Blizzard. And for people like me, who can mostly ''give'' to a game 2 hours in row, it's an extremely attractive feature. As someone who crave and love PVE, having increased possibility to acquire new PVE gear is a major good point for me. On the other hand, TOR feature decreased possibilities to get the said loot. Throw me rocks, call me a panda lover, but finding manually people for your dungeons is not convenient after years of LFD. LFD might not be community building, but that's kinda like saying that security belts on cars are for sissies... I'm only going to point out a major difference that even Blizz recently acknowledged as a major game design problem for WoW: * How do you learn the story of WoW? Mostly in youTube videos or blog posts on a fan site. Sources that are very much "out of game". * How do you learn the story of SWTOR? In-game through the voice overs and interactive dialogs. And then you see why Blizz implemented LFR and LFD. It's this simple of a contrast: * WoW the story is the end-game, and therefore it needs tools to make it as accessible as possible to off-set just reading the story from a blog or a YouTube video. * SWTOR the story is the leveling for each class. And the end game is just a a common element extension of the story for ALL classes. This is why you have to "unlearn" what I think are bad gaming habits that WoW teaches and breeds. These are the gaming habits that I can think of that WoW fosters and must be unlearned: * Accepting quests without reading quest text (or in TOR terms, space barring through dialog) * Rush to max level And then things in SWTOR that are just plain absent or been removed from WoW: * Unique class story or quest line. WoW used to have these at level 40 (granted small in WoW vs large in TOR) and in Cata removed them. Wait wut? * A thematic story from beginning to end. Note all the columns and Dev feedback from Blizz about how the leveling expreince in WoW is very chopped up atm. Level 1-60 is revamped to current story. But then you go to BC and it's like a time warp back 6 years ago, then to WotLK and it's like "Wait wut? This guy is ded!" and then back to the present in Cata 80-85. The story in WoW is a mess to say the least. The in-game part of WoW has been reduced to seeing a cut-scene to tell the story during a raid or vignettes in a dungeon released with the content patch. So for you to get "attached" or "immersed" in the story you have to make it ultra accessible. But the very same practice renders story obsolete because the exposure is for a split second in game play terms and then reduced to farm VP this much each week tread mill. I realized the utter farce of game play that WoW trained me in within the first 3 days of playing SWTOR. And no I'm not a fanboi of either, I just realized why I play a game and then do as much of that with each as I can. This reduces my game time to WoW to 5 hours of raiding each week and about 20 hours with TOR for the exploration and fun of a new immersive story. Now, you tell me which is in jeopardy of losing my sub? And when Deathwing dies to my blade in this Sunday's raid, I probably won't log in their again until the next xpac at the earliest. Edited January 6, 2012 by ObiWonCanolli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm not talking of ''Ah ah ah, Panda sucks'', but of the brilliantly conceived, fun and working Looking For Raid tool. This was a stroke of genius from Blizzard. And for people like me, who can mostly ''give'' to a game 2 hours in row, it's an extremely attractive feature. As someone who crave and love PVE, having increased possibility to acquire new PVE gear is a major good point for me. On the other hand, TOR feature decreased possibilities to get the said loot. Throw me rocks, call me a panda lover, but finding manually people for your dungeons is not convenient after years of LFD. LFD might not be community building, but that's kinda like saying that security belts on cars are for sissies... WoW is the fast food of MMOs. It is dumbing down the system so much, that new players expect these anti-community tools and add-ons to help them with every little thing. Need a group? Why even bother to communicate and get to know your fellow players, when you can just put yourself in an automatic tool and the computer will do all the work for you. I don't even know why people bother playing MMOs if they can't even handle a simple task as making up a group or finding a guild to raid. Are people that lazy or anti-social? Also, PUGs for groups are bad enough, you think a raid of PUGs will be a nightmare. But lucky in WoW you can faceroll most of thier raiding content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Dying? Last time I check WoW had 10+ million subs. And you checked this where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Indeed. That's what I meant. Gold farmers operate don't farm actually-they hack accounts and steal the gold. this. and every advert that is shouted out in trade comes from a compromised account. All those lvl 1 gold spam whispers well guess what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 True, they survive on smooth combat, great end game (pvp / pve), and tons of content. All which SWTOR has. Next? Are you serious? The combat is not smooth unless if you think Ability Delay is great? There is not tons of content obviously. It's a new game can't speak about endgame since I have yet to reach it but pvp is a joke and broken. Crafting has no endgame and not worth it yet (and I love crafting so this dissapoints me) and questing while fun is not heroic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Citation where they said that, please? And what is a "casual carebear"? Is this game supposed to cater to the more hardcore crowd when it doesn't even have a combat log and people cleared EV on hardmode within the first two weeks of release? Sorry, but combat log literally has nothing to do with how "hardcore" a game is. People clearing hard mode within the first two weeks, however, that's the telling part. Edited January 6, 2012 by Truga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquiraj Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 True, they survive on smooth combat, great end game (pvp / pve), and tons of content. All which SWTOR has. Next? I think that will be great when they implement that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Remember the South Park episode that end up with a Pee-Wee team playing against the Red Wings of Detroit ? That's what I think when I see people that base raid difficulty on the fact that top guilds clear content within a week.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 And you checked this where? Latest thing I can find with out looking hard. 11.4 million subs. If you seriously thought TOR would kill WoW then stop smoking. http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/05/09/world-of-warcraft-dips-to-a-mere-11-4-million-subscribers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 BTW, I still don't know why ''guy that pay 15$ to play 2 hours per week'' is less a sub than ''guy who raid 7 days a week'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbral Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Huh? I've used it about 15 times now and have yet to notice ANYTHING that you mentioned, which leads me to believe you haven't even used it, but probably heard from someone else how "awful" it is.It's very very clear that most of the people that spew essentially the same comments about how "terrible" the LFG/LFD tools made groups haven't even used it, but are just repeating something they saw someone else say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 i love you haters. i really do LFR is entirely optional, but we...just refuse to acknowledge that, right? not like forming a raid the old fashioned way was an option, oh no sir not at all Example.... One table has an already made fresh cheeseburger. Another table has all the stuff to make a cheeseburger. You have the option to choose either, but what do you think the majority will take? I say most people are freaking lazy so they will go with a pre-made cheeseburger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Why even bother to communicate and get to know your fellow players, when you can just put yourself in an automatic tool and the computer will do all the work for you. I don't even know why people bother playing MMOs if they can't even handle a simple task as making up a group or finding a guild to raid. Are people that lazy or anti-social? It's not that people are lazy or don't care about being social. It's that sitting around LFG for a half hour while doing nothing else is boring and isn't fun in any way shape or form. You can call this impatient if you want, but the reality is that no one wants to waste their time when playing a game for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Remember the South Park episode that end up with a Pee-Wee team playing against the Red Wings of Detroit ? That's what I think when I see people that base raid difficulty on the fact that top guilds clear content within a week.... Anyone has beaten nightmare mode legit ever in SWTOR? Since this week's patch. Just asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbral Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Latest thing I can find with out looking hard. 11.4 million subs. If you seriously thought TOR would kill WoW then stop smoking. http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/05/09/world-of-warcraft-dips-to-a-mere-11-4-million-subscribers/Soon will be the post saying "ya..but..but most of those subs are in Asia!! They don't count!!!" If it weren't just so darn pathetic and damaging to this game, the "OMG WoW has that!! Keep it out of SWTOR!!! crowd could be called cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonix Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 You can pug raids in WoW now. That game must have gotten even easier. This. OP likes it because its easy and he can get carried in raids now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodia Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Soon will be the post saying "ya..but..but most of those subs are in Asia!! They don't count!!!" If it weren't just so darn pathetic and damaging to this game, the "OMG WoW has that!! Keep it out of SWTOR!!! crowd could be called cute. Exactly. Nice sig, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Soon will be the post saying "ya..but..but most of those subs are in Asia!! They don't count!!!" If it weren't just so darn pathetic and damaging to this game, the "OMG WoW has that!! Keep it out of SWTOR!!! crowd could be called cute. I have seen that around this forum and I don't get it. They are still playing WoW and making them money. EA would love some of that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's pretty awesome watching WoW fail now. Every attempt they try to win back the community they only dig themselves a deeper grave. Now with LFR, they are finally shoveling dirt on their coffin, well done, Blizzard! Too funny. I play both SWTOR and WoW. I love this game and WoW. WoW isn't failing in any way shape or form. You obviously have some sort of axe to grind about WoW. If you don't like it and don't want to play it that's fine but to claim it's failing with it's 11 million paying customers............yeah, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlkalineKitten Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 You can pug raids in WoW now. That game must have gotten even easier. You could PUG in Vanilla, we did it all the time for MC, BWL, and ZG. Naxx, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I'd like to thank Blizzard for LFR. I quit before Firelands and resubbed the week Dragon Soul patch occurred. After running the 5 mans (Very poor Blizzard, extremely mindless and disconnected from any coherent ingame narrative, why was I there I don't know. What's this Dragon Soul macguffin? Oh I need to read some novel.) once and buy some justice gear with rollover points from previous conversion I was good to go for LFR. Two weeks pass and Deathwing, the final boss of Cataclysm lies dead at my feet, just in time for TOR early game access. You might say well what about normal or hard modes? I say I'm not eager to subject myself to skinner box conditioning. Guild ninjaing definitely does take place, I went with my friends guild they rolled need on everything they could and traded items after the raid was over. Edited January 6, 2012 by RocNessMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's not that people are lazy or don't care about being social. It's that sitting around LFG for a half hour while doing nothing else is boring and isn't fun in any way shape or form. You can call this impatient if you want, but the reality is that no one wants to waste their time when playing a game for fun. Back in old EQ1, you were forced to make friends to group. You had to be social or you did nothing in the game. There was no soloing to grind to 50. You had to group no matter what you wanted to do. Sadly vanilla EQ1 or even vanilla WoW would be too much work for these new lazy MMOers of today. Sitting LFG for more then 15 minutes is a waste of time. Move on and do some solo stuff or join an active guild. That's why guild systems are created for people to do stuff together. How hard is it to start your own group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's not that people are lazy or don't care about being social. It's that sitting around LFG for a half hour while doing nothing else is boring and isn't fun in any way shape or form. You can call this impatient if you want, but the reality is that no one wants to waste their time when playing a game for fun. Kinda. That's like saying that chess by snail mail is for real players, as opposed as chess by email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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