What Needs to be done to Make Crafting Useful

[Kibaken]

Not to dissuade you from you from your objections with the system, but you know this game has been released for less than a month right. All the references to Warcraft aren't talking about how the crafting system in that game began. I am not giving Bioware a pass by any means, but as a long time beta-tester and MMO-fan I am satisfied with the current system. I admit I didn't max level in the first two weeks. Spent Christmas with my kids and have a day job. I apologize for sounding superior too. Just been around these communities for 10 years now, and completely understand that folks want a lot more than they are ever gonna get. You don't think they rolled out this launch and gonna just sit on the game do you. We all have little things we want to see pop up in the future for SWTOR, but crying about end game crafting less than a month after release seems a little out there. I love this game, and make a New Years Resolution not to troll the forums. To play the dev-'s advocate, just wait and see where this game goes. It is great base system.

 

 

A great "base," sure. If you read some of the post in this thread they clearly outline the outright flaws with it. Crafting is good up until 50. Daily Commendations give me better hilts than what I can make with Artificing. Custom hilts I can make at 400 are made useless because PvP/PvE gear is innately better and have unextractable hilts.

 

Biochem is the only profession that gives anywhere near a worthwhile bonus in endgame. I really can't see how they could make crafted gear worth it. With how they killed custom gear's use in end-game by making raid/pvp gear have unextractable mods they need sweeping changes to the system to make anything but BioChem worth it.

[PacmanChampion]

Well written post, agree completely. Hopefully Bioware see this and fix soon!

[Squiddish]

Not to dissuade you from you from your objections with the system, but you know this game has been released for less than a month right. All the references to Warcraft aren't talking about how the crafting system in that game began.

 

I'm gonna throw this out here right now, mildly off topic but I really need someone to explain this logic to me.

 

"LOL WAIT SQUIDDISH, WOW DIDN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS AT LAUNCH, SO ITS OK!"

 

Is SW:TOR's launch simultaneous to WoW's? NO! If I make me a big fancy FPS and release it for xbox 360, but the graphics are terrible, am I going to say "Well, the original Call of Duty had slightly worse graphics than this"? NO!

 

We are competing with CATACLYSM, not vanilla WoW.

 

 

But this is beside the point, I'm not one of those "BUT BIOWARE YOUR X IS Y SO I'M CANCELLING MY SUB YOU MAKE BAD GAEMS" people. I am aware that, as an MMO, this game is going to constantly evolve. I am also aware, as an avid Assassin's Creed fan, that some developers have absolutely NO CLUE what is best for their game, or how their game even works it would seem.

 

I am simply hoping to outline what I think are the biggest major problems with the current state of the crafting system that need to be addressed to make it... well, not suck.

I am aware that the crafting system is not one of Bioware's big priorities, so if these changes EVER come, its a long way off. But we can hope.

[Menasor]

In most cases with crew skills so far I wonder why I even bother with anything besides ones that involve gathering materials. You get some pretty good gear simply from questing,doing heroics and pvp and then you also get some of the best mods that way as well. The only use I have for synthweaving at this point is to craft a few things for lowbie alts, but once they start getting decent quest rewards then there isn't a point in doing that anymore either.

 

It would have been worthwhile had they made the 400 point schematics not require a drop from operations/flashpoints. Throw crafters a bone, let them craft something that is close to instance gear quality so that the time/money they put in was worth it.

[angrydurf]

Crafting is pretty much useless at every level as it stands. Which is disappointing as the core ideas of the systems for crew skills and itemization are really pretty good.

 

There is almost no point at which what is craftable can compete with what you get from commendation vendors and often even quest rewards or random drops.

 

The main argument is that those who don't want to craft shouldn't be penalized for that choice. I agree partially. One should not be forced to craft or participate in crafting (through the GTN or face to face trades) in order to proceed through the game. On the other hand in order for crafting to be remotely functional in the leveling game it must offer some benefit.

 

Thus I would say commendations should be eliminated or reduced to green quality mods. Quest rewards ought remain effectively the same perhaps making Orange moddable gear less common as quest rewards. Likewise blue quality Items should be pretty much in the range of rewards for finishing mission arcs, and as drops from flashpoint bosses. Orange for the conclusion of planetary class story mission lines and from final bosses in flashpoints or perhaps as rare drops from earlier flashpoint mobs (normal mode flashpoints. Purple quality Items would be in the same range as Orange.

 

Crew skills should produce Blue and Purple quality Items at the same rate as currently. Requiring a crafter who wishes to produce better than commendation gear to do more than level the skill and buy vendor recipes. the green recipes though should be available from the trainer for all the same types of mods/gear that are on the commendation vendors. This keeps blues difficult but available with effort and purples to be pretty much a luxury at low levels.

 

Thus if you want better than basic greens you have to do flashpoints, craft them, or buy them off the GTN. Greens are sufficient for leveling of course but if you want to get that certain look or the edge in stats you have to go a little further than completing basic quests.

 

Now with crew skills at all levels having some real incentive to be used there is more need for non-crafters to have funds available for such. Slicing is a good option there. Particularly if the reward for boxes is increased allowing greater gain from nodes and missions.

 

Not to leave PvP out in the dark as the difference between crafted and quest gear is significant for PvP. Allow PvP focused rewards from PvP vendors to be available. The Itemization should function effectively as a blue PvP piece has stats equivalent to a green PvE with the difference in Item budget made up for by expertise. This makes the PvP gear desirable for PvP but no better than quest/commendation gear for PvE. On PvP and RP-PvP servers have world PvP kills give credit towards PvP commendations (if that is not already the case)

 

Interdependency I think is a mixed bag. On the one hand it provides a framework for Crafters to interact within. One doesn't become a master crafter without others. On the other hand it tends to lead to inflation of prices for basic materials when the dependencies are on raw mats not produced goods.

 

There is some interdependency built into the system already. Mods need to go in moddable gear produced by crafters and that gear needs mods. This however can be addressed by the purchaser rather than the crafter meaning the crew skills are dependent on one another for full function the crafters themselves have little reason to interact.

 

Additional interdependency would best come in the form of skills like cybernetics and Artifice producing crafted goods that go into perhaps purple level Items? thus the best Items require collaboration while the more standard blues would be craftable alone. on the flip side skills like artifice and cybernetics could be dependent on the other production skills to get either recipes or perhaps something like settings or harness for their high end mods. This however shouldn't be the standard. inter-dependencies should be required for Items that are of exceptional (purple) quality not most everything made.

 

This does little to nothing for level 50 crafting. However I think that the same restrictions on LvL 50 rewards should be present as earlier. Basic functional gear for commendations from dailies. Also perhaps the recipes for the higher level mods/gear. Raids/Heroics of course would offer better gear epics and moddable gear from drops along with recipes for some epic Items and perhaps some of the components for the top end crafted gear. The best raid gear would be better than that crafted by raid recipes but raid recipe/material gear would be the next step down. Allowing raiders to supply (at a price) high quality gear to non-raiders (also gear up alts for raids on farm and have a reason to continue to raid once their character is geared out) LvL 50 Dailies of course could allow for big lockboxes as a reward/commendation purchase so that those that do not participate in crafting can get the funds to buy crafters goods.

[PantheraMorag]

I would love to see recipes needing items from other professions.

 

I'd also love to see more diverse orange gear, instead of recolourings of the same item.

 

Having said that, I so far find my professions very powerful and practical for levelling. I'm willing to spend the money and time it requires to keep my professions levelled to about 2 levels above my char in requirement, and my young synthweaver went through entire Corusant having better gear than every quest reward, while her companion can tank all the heroics and even tanked a flashpoint (he is unfortunately wearing a lot of +strength instead of +aim though). My Cybertech is also using her mods almost every level, using commendations to buy the mods she can't make and some companion gear.

 

Even with completing every single quest, + bonus quest I feel I wouldn't have had enough commendations to be able to gear completely without using my profession. [disclaimer; I proc all my gear, so I only use blue gear]

 

Having said that, I totally agree that every profession needs something for level 50. I hope it was always planned to be implemented, but they didn't plan on people getting to 50 so fast.

I'm crossing my fingers that during the coming months we will see level 50 benefits be added to every profession.

Edited January 7, 2012 by PantheraMorag

[Ivpiv]

I like how hardcore roleplayers are in here suggesting no items from quest nor from raids lol..

 

U do realise how prices would SKYROCKET on GTN if no items dropped or was provided as rewards?

 

If we are talking about it from a "realistic sort of way" i can sort of agree with when u blow a giant droid up it dropping a fully functional lightsaber is kinda stupid..

 

But from mission rewards the empire giving you an item from their stock doesnt seem at all farfetched to me..

 

The problem with this whole idea is the same every other MMO has battled since the beginning of mmo´s.. If u make craftables too good, no one is going to raid or do HM. Its especially easy when you can just send your companions out to farm your mats aswell

 

 

Im armstech atm and i have made a a pair of blasters thats waay better than anything i can possibly get atm.. I have not done huge OPS or HMs yet, but i have done some pvp and when i look at the pvp weapons my guns have something like 50 more top and min dmg..

 

 

I dont think its that bad ? I just want MORE COOL LOOKING VIBROBLADES!! im lvling a marauder and tbh im already tired the Lightsabers.. Gimme a couple of them awesome looking cleaver vibroblades with actual offensive stats. just 1 craftable that i can farm and get an epic version of ( that doesnt require alloys) Like with my guns.. Would be sweeet

[angrydurf]

Top raid/heroic gear being better than craftable gear isn't really a problem. having gear available through normal questing that is consistently better than what is crafted is a problem.

 

At end game having crafted gear be what you gear into to raid and then maybe a system to gear up alts/non-raiders through crafting once the raid is farmable is actually beneficial to raiders though. With RE having epic raid gear be REable for mats/schematics could allow normal raid drops to end up 'trickling down' to interested non-raiders even if they weren't as good as full raid gear.

 

Number one problem for crafting though is commendations vendors. They straight up sell better than you can reasonably make at any given level and commendations are trivial to acquire. I have not hit any planet where I wasn't able to get geared out in almost all commendation gear/mods or better before finishing the planets quest chains. They need to either way up the cost on those or nerf the hell out of what's available.

[Devron_Solari]

I agree to the main points on this thread I'm a synth weaver 98 and I love crafting items knowing I have made something tailored for my character that is different and only obtainable Through determination and time sadly this isn't true for this game I'm hugely dissapointed by the crafting something which I was massively excited about has been poorly conceived there truly is little or no reward for spending a large amount of time and credits to create and level up your crafting abilities!

As said earlier there is no way to make u look individual even a simple colour mechanism would be great and Being able to add slots to make your armour superior or/and stat increases should be relevant to character and better increases to what can just be bought for less than what it costs to create,learn schematics gather materials and the time.

 

And surely a craft that u have put so much effort in and money reward u into being a paying skill rewarding the dedicated and supplying out of reach things to players who don't wish to take the time to do it creating a good economy in game.

 

Isn't the point of choosing a certain crafting line and levelling it with time and money is the reward to know u have items that are better and more unique than people can just get by doing quests or spending a little money at a vendor?!

[Megaphys]

I was thinking about it a lot, and i am overall on the side of crafting being able to make gear as good as anything else out there. However i do understand the need for a strong incentive for raid rewards.

 

So my solution; have raids drops gears and parts that give bonus stats and effects that only function in raid areas.

 

So essentially the best gear in the game for raids will come from raiding, but as far as regular pve, that will be from quests crafting and raiding.

 

Also drop some customizable parts so that a raider can choose to have those same top tier effects in thier favorite orange sets.

 

so essentially say for example the best of the best hardest to obtain crafting item, is in the same teir of the best of the best hard to obtain raid item, for normal stuff. But in an operation or flashpoint, it has extra stats, making it better than a craftable, inside the raids. The mods that give this effect to other non raid armors should be in a new slot and not require a craft to add.

 

essentially this allows crafters to make the best stuff not for raid, and make the unique stuff raiders will want to socket with their special raid mods when they want a specific look.

 

 

crafting gear will still be relevant, but not overpowered, and not required for a non crafter to progress. but crafting gear wont be any gimper than a raider in non raid scenarios

 

btw, i think the set bonus and special abilities should probably be available outside of raids, i mean, it sounds like it alters the gameplay and gives you cool new mechanics to mess around with, and while a raid dude could theoretically do more dmg, you shouldnt limit special abilities, or new combos (from decreased cool down times for example) to people who want to play with 8-16 other people on a regular basis.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Megaphys

[darthjerro]

how stupid.... not everyone has the time to sit there sending companions off for 20 mins crafting quests...

 

Your the type of player that would prefer free gear in the mail, and start at lvl 50.GO Away.

 

Crafting is a dud. When i was anticipating star wars, i honestly thought the crafting would be something grand. wows crafting isnt grand. Aions wasnt bad. Somethign that actually required time and effort to make. Something you have to fly to different planets to go aquire of rare mobs that only spawn in certain parts of the planet . 10 things from all different places and proffesions to make some cool gear.

 

How wrong i was, we got ...this.... crafting system instead designed for 5 year olds. Its like BW said " right, i dont think you guys have the IQ for complicated crafting designs, so we give you this a 5 year old can desipher ".

 

Shame.

[Megaphys]

how powerful would your item have to be, to be worth that time? fact is people can get fully specced gear in like 20 minutes.

 

on the flip side, looking at some of the other threads, you do in fact have to do some things like that for the rarer special crafted items.

 

see the magenta crystal that i think, requires you to fly one place get a special effect, beat a boss, go behind him and gather the crsytal, and also to beat a boss and get a schematic from him somewhere else, assuming this isnt the only item like this in the game, they do in fact have things like what you want for crafting

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

how about actually being able to make a living as a crafter on that list? seriously. Everything that is remotely good is Bind on Pickup. How am I suppose to get income? I can't sell my really good grenades or the custom speeders on the GTN. Why not?! It's really bad that there is no alternate way as a crafter to make money on the GTN.

[Squiddish]

how about actually being able to make a living as a crafter on that list? seriously. Everything that is remotely good is Bind on Pickup. How am I suppose to get income? I can't sell my really good grenades or the custom speeders on the GTN. Why not?! It's really bad that there is no alternate way as a crafter to make money on the GTN.

 

That's largely a result of number 1 and number 4. Admittedly, the gear you can make is pretty much poop, but you'd still see a MAJOR improvement if 1 and 4 were addressed.

[Squiddish]

Bump for GREAT JUSTICE. We this really needs to be higher on Bioware's list (although truly they DO have a pretty epic list right now)

[Chromiie]

Bump for the greater good!

[Massyma]

Jabba Says...

 

 

"Crafting is usefull... Shorten your post I couldn't get past the TITLE"

[Lacedemon]

For me and my mates the best thing that they can do to make our crafting skills more useful is to make schematics for Amourings, mods and Enhancements available on say the final boss of the raid encounters (ofc of equal quality to those found in raid/pvp gear). Just be mere fact that through crafting would truely allow us to control how our characters looked endgame and continue to the use stack of nice looking orange gear we have would be fantastic.

 

As an Artifice it appears that endgame all hope is not lost. Depending on the stats of the Purple, White, Magenta and other rare crystals it potentially allow this still to be used for more than gearing up guildies who are not 50 yet and any alts.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Lacedemon

[Squiddish]

Jabba Says...

 

 

"Crafting is usefull... Shorten your post I couldn't get past the TITLE"

 

If your attention span is too low to read the title, you probably aren't capable of forming opinions anyway.

[Apoxie]

Cyber also has epic ship upgrades, thats pretty sweet. I sell them for 10k (grade 4) and 30-40k (epic).

[DubyooC]

I agree with this post, i am sitting at 400 artifice, wanting it to be useful i guess sure if my guild was into farming world bosses for color crystal patterns i could make a bit of money i guess.

 

What really ruins crafting is that you can get better stuff from daily commendations, and everything is reuseable, i know alot of people wouldn't like this idea but what if you could not rip out that enhancement/mod/armoring/hilt/barrel/whatever?

 

Also strongly agree on the part where none of the crafts cross over with each other, this is also a strong part of creating an economy, when crafters need other crafters to make them things to craft items that are actually useful.

 

As it stands now im getting pretty close to dropping artifice for Biochem, just like everyone else, because it really is the best crew skill hands down.

[UTorrent]

i see what you did and its awesome loved what you said ... read it all was a bit of a pain in the end but i get it

yea agreed they should make some toys for us crafters...!

and i have to say im not self suficient ..

i play as Aritifice,Archaology and slicing

- craft-gather-money.

[dconnenc]

In regards to I think #2, crafting would be more interesting if you weren't restricted to 1 Gathering, 1 Crafting, 1 Mission.

 

Get 3 Mission! Get 3 Crafting! Go crazy.

[Squiddish]

In regards to I think #2, crafting would be more interesting if you weren't restricted to 1 Gathering, 1 Crafting, 1 Mission.

 

Get 3 Mission! Get 3 Crafting! Go crazy.

 

The only restriction, AFAIK, is you can only have 1 Crafting. You CAN get 3 Mission or 3 Gathering, I am fairly certain.

 

Someone confirm? I know one of my chars has 1 Crafting 2 Gathering.

[Synthine]

everytime i read a post of people talking about crafting I get totally confused. Right now I am lvl 44 bodyguard. I have armstech (400) Scavenging (400) and investigation (385). The last weapon I have used from a quest was the reward I got off the class quest from DK. EVERY weapon i have used since was crafted by me. These weapons have been far better than any quest/flash point/badge vender/pvp vender weapon i have seen. As lvl 44, i have to blasters waiting for me to ding 45. I have the pattern I need to have 2 purple qty blaster for when I hit 50. I get really confused when people say crafting is useless when I have gained nothing but good things from it.