So...Immortal or Vengence for 50 pvp? With gear

[Spudinske]

Wondering and asking for opinions on what people think is more effective in lvl 50 pvp. If both were fully geared in pvp gear made for their own spec, which would be better in the battlefield?

 

Immortal with gear has a lot of hp, but do they even do enough damage? But team pvp i can see it having a chance at working.

 

Vengence i see all over youtube getting 2k-3k crits every hit with gear(probably no expertise on enemies).

[Errthu]

Merc or powertech.

like x2 of your capabilities.

 

If you still wanna play jug then go rage for engame pvp.

 

I use this build:

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/juggernaut/#::ef23ef6ef4ef4e3fde7fe6

Edited January 6, 2012 by Errthu

[DropDeadFred]

I rerolled empire, went Juggernaught -Immortal- and was utterly disappointed!

 

I respec'd vengence and now I can a actually be a factor!

 

You can still score protection metals, and get damage. As

Immortal I was bottom of the page every time. Now I'm top 5

Most games. 6-7 metals

[Horsethief]

You can pull top 5 most games as Immortal as well. The difference being you have to rely on your Force Charges, taunts, guards and intercept charges. You won't get the same number of kills but you can be nearly indestructible as you take great amounts of damage and defend teammates. The occasional heal certainly helps.

 

Decide what you prefer and go with it. You'll have more fun in the long run. You can also score plenty of points in Huttball or defend plenty of points when your HP, buffs, expertise and reusable stims/adrenals/heals annoy the hell out of opponents.

 

Being torn up by a well organized team is no indicator of the power of your spec. Any good team can kill any spec regardless of class or skill level. Make sure you gauge your spec vs. the team you play against/with.

[Literati]

I've been immortal spec since the beginning. I don't do terrible in WZs, but I feel like I'm working a lot harder to be in the top than other classes. How do you guys think a Juggernaut would perform spec'd as rage or vengeance while using tank gear?

[jVCc]

mhm also thinking about rage spec ..

[lunabaguna]

rage/veng

[NovaGrantham]

Personally, I find Immortal spec most rewarding. It's a playstyle that I've not seen since DAOC and Warhammer to an extent. We have to protect people and we are very good at it with taunts and guard. It's a completely different style of play than what most people are used to and it's definitely easily supported by the Juggernaut toolset.

 

It's also an archetype that there just aren't enough of in PVP at the moment. Healers would have a much easier time of things if there were tanks that guarded them and actively defended them and removed threats from attacking them. Between free of cost snares, force push, two stuns, I can usually cycle through these abilities and keep 2-3 melee attackers away from my healers. Ranged can be LoS'ed (and with a force leap + snare) and kept consantly chasing as well. Add in my taunts and often I can insure the healers takes less direct damage than I would from being attacked.

 

There is intense value in the Tank Juggernaut and it is very capable of doing its job in PVP. I am routinely able to pull in 7-11 medals each match and I'm not even a Biochem capable of sneaking the heal medals.

[gwmclintock]

What stuns are you using? Since I can't find any that seem to work. Scream doesn't stun, and neither does smash. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Noxistar]

The only Stuns working are "Backhand" ( 21 points in Immortal spec ) , "Force Choke" ( 21 points in Immortal you can get it to work without channel-time ! ) and "Crash" ( 2s stun on Force Charge ) which is also located in the Immortal tree.

You get a 6s AoE Mez called "intimidating roar" in later levels ( regardless of your spec ).

 

I personally feel that if your grouping with a good MDPS, Immortal Spec would be the way to go since you can use CC on targets and protect them really well.

 

Vengeance/Rage is good for having big Crits with full Gear ( i personally dont think an endgame-geared Juggernaut on DPS-Spec not in Soresu-form will survive any sort of serious DPS ).

 

I just recently hit 50, so i dont have the best gear and have still not decided which PvP-Set to buy. Maybe combining two 2piece-bonusss will be a good way to go ( since you can switch out Mods maybe you can gear offensive with defensive setpieces !? ).

Edited January 6, 2012 by Noxistar

[ungerre]

I've become pretty well versed in Rage PVP over the past few days.

 

Jugg isn't underpowered at all, we just require a lot more thinking and higher level execution than other classes. Once I learned to utilize Intercede, Force Charge, Oblit, Force Choke, Intimidating Roar, and Force Push OFTEN, my numbers increased dramatically.

 

Our damage isn't super high right now, but our burst is great. Combine some well timed short-duration CC's(We have tons!) with a few good burst combos and you're making a huge impact.

 

Our mobility is what makes us kings in huttball/voidstar. We can transcend Tiers, whether it be to an ally or an enemy. This means we can get to an ally who needs help, or jump to an enemy close to the touchdown and force push him back into the pit.

 

TLDR: We're not UP, Rage spec's mobility and burst damage combo's are great.

[AllanGand]

Frankly I love immortal. There's nothing like running in the middle of a pack of enemies do your aoe taunt and then watch them cry at their puny dps.

 

If you play immortal, just don't go for the kills, your role will always be to defend your team. On your own you will be more or less useless, yes you can score kills in 1vs1 but it will take you quite a while to kill someone and it's just not worth it.

 

I normally play my immortal Jug as a support character. Stunning/taunting/slowing (since i have a free aoe slow). You can easily get a ton of medals for scoring 50k protection in games.

[Proto]

Personally, I find Immortal spec most rewarding. It's a playstyle that I've not seen since DAOC and Warhammer to an extent. We have to protect people and we are very good at it with taunts and guard. It's a completely different style of play than what most people are used to and it's definitely easily supported by the Juggernaut toolset.

 

It's also an archetype that there just aren't enough of in PVP at the moment. Healers would have a much easier time of things if there were tanks that guarded them and actively defended them and removed threats from attacking them. Between free of cost snares, force push, two stuns, I can usually cycle through these abilities and keep 2-3 melee attackers away from my healers. Ranged can be LoS'ed (and with a force leap + snare) and kept consantly chasing as well. Add in my taunts and often I can insure the healers takes less direct damage than I would from being attacked.

 

There is intense value in the Tank Juggernaut and it is very capable of doing its job in PVP. I am routinely able to pull in 7-11 medals each match and I'm not even a Biochem capable of sneaking the heal medals.

 

Couldn't have said it any better. I really enjoy Immortal spec in pvp and it reminds me a lot of the two games mentioned.

[muzzle_flash]

If your looking for pure numbers, a rage smash build will certainly serve you well, and give you a lot of utility.

 

Just build yourself up 4 stacks of shockwave, obliterate into a group of enemies and watch them scatter and the numbers fly when you smash

Edited January 6, 2012 by muzzle_flash

[Omniwing]

If your looking for pure numbers, a rage smash build will certainly serve you well, and give you a lot of utility.

 

Just build yourself up 4 stacks of shockwave, obliterate into a group of enemies and watch them scatter and the numbers fly when you smash

 

 

50 Jugg here with some pvp gear. The problem with what is said above is this:

3 different talents

2 different skills needed to be used within a few seconds of each other (one of which is channelled, and you need the whole channel)

 

Once ALL of those conditions are met, and you can get yourself in between some enemies, yes, you can do an AOE crit for around 3k.

 

BIG FREAKING DEAL. Guess what - every other class can crit you for 3k easily. Sorcs and assassins can crit you for 4-5k, while BH's can crit you for 2k a few times in quick succession.

 

So, the whole 'smash build' idea is fun for PVE, and kind of fun in PVP when you can line up all your ducks in a row, but thats it - you're pretty much a one trick pony, and that is your trick.

 

This class is seriously U.P right now

[muzzle_flash]

50 Jugg here with some pvp gear. The problem with what is said above is this:

3 different talents

2 different skills needed to be used within a few seconds of each other (one of which is channelled, and you need the whole channel)

 

Once ALL of those conditions are met, and you can get yourself in between some enemies, yes, you can do an AOE crit for around 3k.

 

BIG FREAKING DEAL. Guess what - every other class can crit you for 3k easily. Sorcs and assassins can crit you for 4-5k, while BH's can crit you for 2k a few times in quick succession.

 

So, the whole 'smash build' idea is fun for PVE, and kind of fun in PVP when you can line up all your ducks in a row, but thats it - you're pretty much a one trick pony, and that is your trick.

 

This class is seriously U.P right now

 

50 jugg here also, 300 expertise at this time.

 

I do understand what your talking about, you need to position well and build into the shockwave smash with the pre req's you mentioned. True also that other classes can crit for 3k easily, but I don't mind it being a little extra work, as it takes people at minimum twice as long to drop me as it does them.

 

You have to remember that we are a real problem to take down if we have expertise and our cooldowns up (best defensive cd's in the game imo - though ofc with a rage build your losing some of that). If you add a healer into the mix we can take a pounding all day long, and still put out decent dps, and until that healer is spiked down, we're going nowhere unless they pump huge amounts of dps into us.

 

I personally dont think its underpowered exactly, I think you just have to be aware of its limitations and play to its strengths. I mean come on, we're basicly a tank that can do 250k dps in a WZ (I know thats small potatoes compared with the staggering numbers others can do, but it will do me)

 

Though I imagine with all the noise being made they will be getting a buff on the first balancing patch

 

EDIT: Also as for needing the whole channel on choke, use that as your shockwave refiller only when force crush is down, it shouldnt be a problem

Edited January 6, 2012 by muzzle_flash

[Sykomyke]

Personally, I find Immortal spec most rewarding. It's a playstyle that I've not seen since DAOC and Warhammer to an extent. We have to protect people and we are very good at it with taunts and guard. It's a completely different style of play than what most people are used to and it's definitely easily supported by the Juggernaut toolset.

 

It's also an archetype that there just aren't enough of in PVP at the moment. Healers would have a much easier time of things if there were tanks that guarded them and actively defended them and removed threats from attacking them. Between free of cost snares, force push, two stuns, I can usually cycle through these abilities and keep 2-3 melee attackers away from my healers. Ranged can be LoS'ed (and with a force leap + snare) and kept consantly chasing as well. Add in my taunts and often I can insure the healers takes less direct damage than I would from being attacked.

 

There is intense value in the Tank Juggernaut and it is very capable of doing its job in PVP. I am routinely able to pull in 7-11 medals each match and I'm not even a Biochem capable of sneaking the heal medals.

 

Well said! Me and a healer friend (operative) the other day managed to kill 2 guys (2v2) near one of the turrets in Alderaan WZ. We then capped the point and defended ourselves 2v4 for quite awhile until reinforcments started showing up. It was definitely fun with the amount of crowd control (albeit single target) we are able to dish out. It was cyclical too. I kept my operative friend alive through use of Intercede, smash, CC, taunt, guard, and in return he healed me and kept me alive. The enemy was very frustrated that it took 4 of them to kill us. (leaving them weaker elsewhere)

 

I like being the rare Immortal Juggernaut in a see of "lolololdps" vengeance juggernauts.

I'm also usually #1 on my team with medals between 5-8 medals each match.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Sykomyke

[Tomidius]

Immortal Jugg.

 

Most warzones I get around 7-9 medals., almost always have the most and usually get a vote or 3...

 

2-3 for protection

1 for 75damage

2 for kill 10 and kill 25 players

1 for heal 2.5k ( medpack)

1 for killing blow

1 for objective

 

Sometimes one for soloing,

sometimes one for 2.5k hit

[Kugron]

One for 50k protection.

[VandredTOR]

50 Jugg here with some pvp gear. The problem with what is said above is this:

3 different talents

2 different skills needed to be used within a few seconds of each other (one of which is channelled, and you need the whole channel)

 

Once ALL of those conditions are met, and you can get yourself in between some enemies, yes, you can do an AOE crit for around 3k.

 

BIG FREAKING DEAL. Guess what - every other class can crit you for 3k easily. Sorcs and assassins can crit you for 4-5k, while BH's can crit you for 2k a few times in quick succession.

 

So, the whole 'smash build' idea is fun for PVE, and kind of fun in PVP when you can line up all your ducks in a row, but thats it - you're pretty much a one trick pony, and that is your trick.

 

This class is seriously U.P right now

 

Umm...you make it sound difficult? I do this all day long..over and over, it's really not hard and I do hit for more than 3k. Trying stacking some surge.

 

I will agree that we are not on the same level as some of the other classes, but rage build is pretty effective. I win many 1 on 1 fights and have won numerous 2 on 1 fights. Haven't won a 3 on 1 yet...closest was a 2 on 1 that I won and as soon as I killed the last guy another guy ran in and attacked and I took him out.

 

I really only struggle with taking down geared heavy specced tanks.