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From a Goldman Analyst Perspective on SWTOR


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Sinius,

Why are you playing SWTOR if you are a GS analyst? Where do you get the time to play a game like this and get to the player achievements which you stated you have? :eek:

 

I will admit, the language of your post was very easy to read. Thank you for not using 1337-speak.

Edited by Exitwounds
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Greetings,

 

Before I start …

 

1) I am level 50 (Jedi Knight / Sentinel)

 

2) I have PvP'd to Valor rank 38

 

3) I have my professions maxed, all datacrons found and most quests in game completed

 

With that said …

 

We all know this game has many bugs and many things that feel / seem unpolished and unfinished. Conversely, what seems unfinished to one person might seem perfectly fine to another (Hardcore vs Casual perspective as one example of contrast.)

 

My post is about the universal functionality that causes most Western market MMO's to fail. I make a great salary predicting this, as most games are initially supported by VC funds, PE funds and other sources of investment, all of which I consult and broker.

 

I have a great track record dating back to World of Warcraft (for successful bets,) predicted the demise of Vanguard, Aion, FF14 and Warhammer. (For advising not to invest.) Some of the reasons were, of course, Western gamers “dislike” grinds and Eastern specific functionality inherent in Korean and Japanese titles attempting to monetize Western markets. That which is commonplace in the East is moderately tolerable in the West, but ultimately rejected, when it comes to certain aspects of the gaming culture.

 

That aside …

 

As an investor, I look at 3 metrics (in MMO's and MOBA genre titles.)

 

1: Audience

 

2: Market Share

 

3: Long term sustainability (after initial growth.)

 

Audience: When you lease an automobile, you either return to the dealer 12-36 months later to buy or lease again (or go elsewhere,) this is called "lease loyalty" and is often identified with the Brand, salesperson or financial constraint. The connotations of the first two are positive in nature, the second, neutral and not applicable to this discussion. Companies such as Blizzard (for example) are successful because they "know how to talk to the people." They have an audience and cater to that audience.

 

What Bioware failed to do was capitalize on there audience and relied on Brand recognition (which is questionable.) This was countered by the negative association of the Electronic Arts brand and clustered by the involvement of Lucas Arts. (a too many Chiefs and not enough Indians syndrome.)

 

So what was left in this wake were Star Wars fans, KOTOR fans, and people curious to start a new game (MMO) from the on start. Unfortunately, most of these "New" players have played Polished MMO's, and have come from other titles to give this one a chance.

 

Like the test drive, if you have the money, you need to be sold from the start. (And most have the money to purchase multiple games and pay the subscription for the one they ultimately settle on.) The salesperson, the test drive ... it all needs to make that first impression, or for the most part, people will return to what they know and like, and reject the new endeavor for reasons such as those found all over the SWTOR forums and this post.

 

We were sold on Star Wars, but the test drive (and lets be honest) is lackluster at best. The audience has spoken on the Forums – about things we dislike and want changed immediately. (Would you settle on a car that had a bad test drive if you could afford something better?) Bioware runs into two problems here

 

1: Engineer talent (are they talented and efficient enough to overhaul and change what’s needed to be changed?)

 

2: Budget (Are enough funds committed to make the changes happen, or are they hedging there losses and preparing for the worst case scenario already?)

 

I suspect it is a bit of both, I advised all my clients to divest of anything to do with EA and Bioware for this vary reason. They needed to attract more talent from the star, BETA test at least another 5-6 months. They should have overstaffed to deal with forum moderation, customer service and bug stomping, among other issues.

 

These issues, listed above, are only the tip of the iceberg; there are some major flaws in this game that are causing droves of customers to leave.

 

Some of them, but not limited to …

 

Combat: In both PVP and PVE, the non fluid ability delay is game breaking in design. It’s workable albeit annoying and needs to be changed. The game will not be successful long term in its current state. The lack of auto attack is one thing, but the ability delay is too much to swallow.

 

Grind: At 50, HM's, PVP ect all become long grinds ... this will cause some to stop playing or eventually lose interest, not due to the grind, but thru faction imbalance, class imbalance and gear disparity in warzones that get boring fairly quickly. (The same maps can be fun if the issues states are resolved, which all link to root and main caused, such as slow combat.) This issue is further compounded by non 50’s facing 50’s in WZ’s.

 

Lack of Community: No server forums, sharding and lag in non-sharded areas ... well, this is a problem … a very huge problem. Community is a huge part of any MMO, the excuse of (“we cannot moderate separate server forums” and “we don’t want to build community on the forums,” is a load of BS, and as an investor question the companies availably of resources, fund and confidence in product.)

 

Lack of Customer support and service: Auto Droid ticket response after 3-4 days is unacceptable. Not being able to speak to a GM, a human being or call into the call center is very problematic, and brings for the concerns of the previous item.

 

Ambiguity: What abilities do, lack of metrics and logs to analyze what occurs in game, no visibility on the future outside secretive of the cuff comments made by some developers ... sorry, learn to talk to the people please, the current state in this respect again, is not acceptable in today’s MMO market.

 

Questions?

 

How do we get white and purple crystal fragments? Are they in game? Do we need to reverse engineer for them? Questions like these should have answers, even if the answer is "sorry, they are not implemented in game yet."

 

End game Ops bugged, Heroic FP's (some encounters) overturned for 2 weeks now - this is unacceptable, sorry. These are the initial OPS, not newly implemented expansions or patches. No excuse.

 

I could go on about the negative niche and non universal things, but that becomes somewhat ideological in essence. The point here is that, this game has potential that is being squandered daily, and people are responding by leaving the game. Most will not return, and this is proven by 10 years of MMO's failing and the habitual patterns of the market / MMO audience, which is about 24-28 million world over.

 

On a personal note; I am willing to give the game a chance, I am staying to see / hope they make these changes and improvements.

 

On a professional note: The damage has already been done, and the chance to monetize on this game / company is long gone.

 

I think Bioware knows this, and it wouldn’t be justified by a company / business to allocate funds to a project that doesn’t have long term growth and sustainability.

 

WOW grew to 11 million. It started at much less. Aion started with 3.5 million, shrunk to under 350k. SWTOR 4-5 million, and is shrinking daily. This shift alone is problematic and often spells doom and gloom for an MMO title. (Just something else to also keep in mind.)

 

The number of subs that are required to sustain this title and the number of subs required to allocate funds for further development is unknown. I assume they will make a profit, but at the cost of quality in customer service and support, delaying game changes and fixes and also delays in other areas.

 

This wasn't as "bad" a launch as many other titles that have been released, but they didn’t get it right either. There are plenty of other options for current customers and even more on the horizon. I hope other companions look at what happened with this game and learn from the errors. Bioware needs to stick to games they do reasonably well, such as Dragon Age. This game would have been better if they consulted with Aion's engine / combat team and hired some folks from Blizzard or other like companies. The current talent pool and experience level of key people it seems is lacking, and the management team pushed the game in a direction that many dislike.

 

If Bioware decides to make another MMO, I hope they base it off ME or DA. If they think they can save the game, then they need to allocate the funds, take the game off line for 1-2 months and relaunch it. Otherwise, we all need to learn to enjoy mediocrity and a game that might have been.

 

Good day and see you all later.

 

Sinius

 

What doesn't make sense is the fact that you told your investors WoW upon launch was a good investment when it was one of worst launches in MMO history and won't tell your investors to invest upon this launch...w..t...f?

 

Like others have said, you sure have a ton of time on your hands for the job title you hold. You didn't space bar? if you did your entire post is skewed and basically invalid.

 

Either way, it's well written but I smell something in the air.

Edited by Nidien
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So you say your a Goldmann Sachs analyst? I work a full time job with great hours. I have been playing since 2 days before christmas, and i have had off a total of 7 days in the last 2 weeks. During the days I had off I played for a long time, I also have have played for at least 3-4 hours a nite on average the days I worked. The point is my only charecter is level 32 after all that, and you are claiming as a quote on qu0te analyst to have a level 50 and a what 33? Now goldman sachs analyst have to work more hours than I do, they also have to have more of a life than I do. You sir are full of something that smells foul! Nicely written, but badly skewed non-facts. Edited by LordoftheWaste
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elsehwere in this thread someone claimed all responses to this threat only concern the OP's credentials and not his points. Whatever, most of his points are based entirely on his "credentials", or more over the fact of what he says he is. When you remove all of the "statistics" he throws around his actual post regarding the problems with SWTOR is near non-existent. But he has some good points in there that deserve attention.

 

But I'll throw my hat into the ring and tear this interesting traipse into fiction apart just the same.

 

Before I start first let me say no one cares about your "credentials." Who you anonymously claim to be on an internet forum means absolutely nothing without proof to back it up. Saying you are an analyst for Goldman Sachs impresses me just about as much as the self-proclaimed Emperor of Austrailia earlier in this thread.

 

That said, here are the tidbits of info you provided that I have issue with. These things really simply prove you are not who you claim to be, not that it matters but you turn into a troll after you're outed so here we go..

 

 

 

First of all this. these weren't hard predictions. Anyone could have predicted Vanguard was going to flop once SOE took over publishing. FF14 you really only needed to play the beta to realize what was going to happen here.

 

Aion I wouldn't largely call a failure, as of late 2011 MMOdata shows that it has dropped to just under 3 million users. (Yet another figure you got wrong, it also topped out at 4 million,. not 3.5)

 

Warhammer I also predicted as a failure because of the version of the IP used. Had Mythic went with Warhammer 40k I think things might have turned out a whole lot differently.

 

This is all irrelevant however. All 4 of these games are STILL running. Vanguard is no gem, but Aion is still rather strong, and FFXIV has worked a lot to turn things around and plan to start charging their monthly sub this month in fact.

 

EA has also been interviewed saying they will finally begin butting forth effort to develop Warhammer further, though I do believe it's far too late to save that game.

 

 

 

WoW grew to 12 nearly 13 million subscriptions in mid 2008 and again in late 2010.

 

An analyst I would think would know his numbers and use them appropriately especially if he is to be taken seriously, considering WoW's total subscription numbers are pretty common knowledge in this industry.

 

In terms of relevance you also fail to make recognition that WoW, or any other MMO for that matter had just as many if not more issues at launch than SWTOR does currently. You point out that WoW built itself up to the millions it has but also fail to acknowledge that it did this by massive developments post launch, just like every other MMO out there. You also fail to make the connection that SWTOR is no different in this regard.

 

 

 

 

Now you are pulling numbers out of thin air. Unles you have a source this entire statement can be completely disregarded as "BS". The last word from Bioware was SWTOR say over 1 million players.

 

But lets break this down anyway.

 

World of Warcraft is a game that is literally split in two markets. It has a western market that includes North America and the European Union. It's Eastern martk includes, well Asian. It's asian market makes up over half of it's total player base, roughly 6 million of the older number of 12 million subs. That leaves 6 million in it';s western market divided among Europe, North America and Latin America.

 

For SWTOR to have 4-5 million players just a few weeks after launch would mean THIS GAME, is very much so the most successful MMO launch ever in the history of the genre. Because SWTOR only has a western market. 4-5 million would more than cover their initial investment in development and make any subsequent earnings total profit.

 

Also, for a game to launch with just one or two million players under the ranking king of MMOs in a related market would be a HUGE deal. And for this game to have very little to ZERO server issues taking on that kind of load, Bioware should be considered deities in the MMO genre from this moment forth.

 

4-5 million and shrinking daily is simply absurd.

 

 

 

 

This is likewise partially wrong, and again if you were truly an analyst you would know better than that.

 

300 million, even 150 million development costs were debunked. I'd estimate at most this game costs roughly 80 million to produce, give or take a few. So there's that to consider. By estimated reports the game sold 900,000 copies in digital downloads in North America alone. Not counting hard copies or the European Union.

 

In their October earnings call I believe it was, EA stated 500,000 subscribers would make this game successful, now true the give no time frame for what kind of longevity would be required at 500,000 subcribers but if gives you a round about idea.

 

See your problem is the same as many people on this forum. You're under the impression that any new MMO has to either kill or match World of Warcraft or it just isn't successful, which is ridiculous at best. Success is variable, more factors are figured into a game's success than just what the competition does.

 

Which by the way competition in the MMO market isn't like it is everywhere else. Multiple games can and do exist alongside each other while not really affecting one another to a large degree, often because different games offer different things to different people. I myself have had upwards of 5 subscriptions going at the same time because I enjoyed different aspects of each game. I almost ALWAYS have at least two. This idiotic concept that MMO players can only choose one is exactly that, idiotic.

 

 

 

That's a matter of opinion really. I've thoroughly enjoyed the test drive. I can honestly say I haven't felt this level of addiction to an MMO since World of Warcraft, and I've played plenty over 30 to be exact over the course of 17 years. I might even go so far as to say that even the addiction I felt to WoW doesn't hold a candle to my addiction to SWTOR once the ball really starts rolling and new features and content are added.

 

But let's be honest the forums appear one sided because most people who are enjoying the game, aren't here trolling threads and looking for a fight. They are in the game playing, having a good time. So saying "the forums have spoken" is like talking smack about someone when they aren't even around, then telling your friends how you sure showed him.

 

These forums, as if the case with ANY game are a very small representation of a playerbase and are subjective at best. Of course a lot of people are here complaining, they don't like the game and don't want to play but don't have anything better to go do.

 

I'm not upset that there are people who don't like this game. It's to be expected. There are people who don't like WoW. Big deal, it's their opinion.

 

 

 

 

Bioware just launched this MMO a little more than three weeks ago. They have millions of dollars wrapped up into the game and their reputation for further continuing in this gaming genre on the line.

 

I highly doubt they are ready to throw in the towel just yet, since the freebies haven't even flown the coop yet. Not to mention that there's plenty of money to throw behind this game if EA so chooses.

 

As for the rest of you post, which is small once all of this **** is out of the way.

 

It's mostly the bugs. Well bugs are to be expected in an MMO even ones out for years or even decades. It's especially expected, or at least should be from a newly launched one.

 

As is stated in every thread defending this game, you can ask for immediate changes all you want. But no one has the magic to snap their fingers and insta-fix anything. These bugs will take time to solve, Bioware has actually been doing a very decent job considering the time frame of getting patches out and fixing what they could off the bat. Now we are told their focus is entirely on the major bugs first and we'll see updates to content, PvP, and combat this very month. It's a matter of patience. If patience is something you or anyone else on this forum doesn't have, then you're in the wrong damn genre of gaming.

 

You also mentioned grind. Okay, this is an MMO, MMOs have grind it's just a part of their nature. Older games like Everquest, FFXI, Ultima Online were kings of grind, it was arguably terrible. Games like WoW, Rift, part of AoC, ect... have done a lot of work to reduce grind and make the leveling process more enjoyable. SWTOR has taken this a slight step forward by adding a highly developed engaging story into the mix.

 

But I find it interesting that you seem to tote WoW as a pinnacle of success when it's end game is possibly more so the rat race than any other. So what exactly is the problem here?

 

Seems to me it doesn't matter what is done people are going to complain.

 

This very forum lkast night was proof. We say people complain about downtime but if there was no downtime they'd complain that there's no patches being applied.

 

 

EU players complain that the downtime was during their prime time, yet if they split the maintenance and did NA, then EU, EU players would compalin that they weren't first and vice versa.

 

It's an endless struggle and you're not going to please everyone.

 

Your only truly legitimate points are nothing that hasn't already been brought up.

 

Combat delay-

 

I personally do not experience this much, and I think it's been blown entirely out of proportion. However, it is still an issue and needs to be adjusted to ensure a smoother method of gameplay. But it's far from game breaking.

 

Customer service-

 

I will agree with this with anyone, Bioware's CS needs to step it up and stop acting stupid. I've had a couple situations myself where I've dealt with customer service that really didn't even comprehend the problem much less offer any solution to fix it.

 

I could argue that they are overwhelmed at the moment, and the sheer volume of issues just isn't conducive to answering everyone in a timely or coherent fashion, but I can't really excuse it so i won't disagree with you there. But Blizzard customer service liekwise is terrible, as is Rift's, FFXI's was non existent, and any SOE game you're really love to reach through your monitor and strangle someone.

 

Bioware DOES need to be much more interactive with it's playerbase and explain more in detail what is going on. this secretive garbage was okay in development, they wanted to keep a lid on things. But the cloak an dagger is pointless now. So again I'll agree.

 

But neither of these issues necessarily mark a game for destruction at least not on the level you want to manifest.

 

Lack of Community-

 

This made me laugh. I can count on one hand the number of times I visited a server forum in an MMO. Communities in MMOs aren't created on forums they are created in game. This point is utterly ridiculous.

 

Ambiguity -

 

Combat log, yes it would be nice to have one. However, it isn't a necessity and not something thqat couldn't be added relatively easily. Honestly I check a combat log very rarely. often just to find out what killed me.

 

Abilities? I know all of my abilities in game do, I know how they work. I read tooltips, all the information you need is right there.

 

 

Overall I'm glad you of sound enough mind to actually be patient and give the game a chance, because that's what needs to happen, this game needs time to develop post launch like every other MMO in the past and future does, it's simply how MMos work.

 

I've said on this forum countless times, a launch build is just a foundation, everything else is built from there. this is true for SWTOR, it was true for WoW, Everquest, Rift. it will be true for GW2, Warhammer 40k, Blizzard's Titan, and so forth.

 

The main reason MMOs fail at launch post-WoW is because of the MMO community as a whole. There are so many people now in this genre that don't have a single clue about how a launched MMO is, be cause most of them didn't even exist in this genre until long after WoW had developed into a powerhouse, they'd never even seen a launched MMO before they began playing WoW.

 

Then they ventured to a new game thinking well WoW is a standard for me so this new game should have everything WoW has plus more right? Well it won't because that's not how it works, and even those that did a very good job as photocopying WoW like Rift still failed.

 

So basically the MMO gets black-balled right out of launch and they fail before they were even ever given a chance to succeed.

 

And that rings so true on this forum. Just days after launch people were expecting perfection. Perfection doesn't even exist in single player titles, it sure as hell doesn't exist in the MMO market.

 

Short of it is, if people don't want to play the game in the state it's in. Fine, don't.. give the game a month or two and come back, see how it is then. I'm sure it'll have a free trial or an email asking you to retry it. If it still fails your heavy expectations you've lost nothing.

 

Conversely if you're not willing to give the game a 2nd chance after continued development then to hell with you, we're better off without needy impatient people anyway.

 

/thread.

 

Fanboi?

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You sure do know what you're talking about, and overall I agree what you say,

but the game has launched for 16 days, the launch was great, and overall the game feels very nice too me.

 

Sure PvP/combat get's kinda laggy sometimes, but I make the best of it and keep my head up, if you can't pvp because of the current ability delay/lag you just plain suck at it.

 

Great post, but you're not helping people keep faith in this project.

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Team, we need to hurry with the last boss. My conference call has started. AFK, I have to end the cross-talk, introduce the CEO, and ask the first question. lolol. You really fooled us Mr. Goldman Analyst.
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I love how you can be anyone on the internet. Goldman Sachs analyst? Sure buddy. You don't invest in a gaming company (bioware / EA) based on a single one of their products.

 

And do what, take the game offline and relaunch it? Wow... Your obviously one of those analyst we bailed out for their business practices eh

Edited by Pyretechnic
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I'm calling BS SOLELY on the fact that this guy openly stating that he works for an investment firm and that also stating that he advised against funding for this game breaches so many codes of ethics, security, privacy, secrecy, EVERYTHING EVER WRITTEN IN A CONTRACT EVER that it's total utter poopy.
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To the OP:

 

While I don't agree with all of your points, I want to take a moment and thank you. For what, you ask? For being an educated and reasonable person. I often come to these forums looking for information, and -- more often than not -- I spend more time sifting through posts fueled by hair-brained delusions of grandeur and riddled with logical pitfalls than I do absorbing the information I'm after.

 

So, thank you, Mr. Goldman Sachs analyst. Thank you (and your Liberal Arts degree) for posting the first thread I've seen that makes sense and maintains tone from start to finish, and, perhaps most importantly, lacks obvious logical fallacy. Well done, sir. If nothing less, you have the respect of a fellow professional.

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I agree with the OP. My prediction has been (and still is)... that once Diablo III hits at around Easter... and then the MoP beta hits in July... SWTOR will be just a footnote in history. If SWTOR would quickly address many of its problematic issues - it would have a decent shot of keeping its head above water. I had the same feelings as the OP when I first touched the beta - it felt like it needed a good 5 - 6 months of work. My only guess as to why they released the product early was to get a head start on DIII. I've been messing around the DIII beta and it's very polished and extremely entertaining. The fact that it's F2P, has an interesting AH/microtransaction paradigm for virtual items, etc. makes the game desirable to a lot of individuals. Only time will tell - it will be interesting to watch the market behavior within the next few months. Edited by Sizzurps
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I agree with the OP. My prediction has been (and still is)... that once Diablo III hits at around Easter... and then the MoP beta hits in July... SWTOR will be just a footnote in history. If SWTOR would quickly address many of its problematic issues - it would have a decent shot of keeping its head above water. I had the same feelings as the OP when I first touched the beta - it felt like it needed a good 5 - 6 months of work. My only guess as to why they released the product early was to get a head start on DIII. I've been messing around the DIII beta and it's very polished and extremely entertaining. The fact that it's F2P, has an interesting AH/microtransaction paradigm for virtual items, etc. makes the game desirable to a lot of individuals.

 

And agreed, No matter how good or bad MoP will be, several million will go back to WoW. That always happens. And Diablo 3 will be a huge knife in EA/Bioware's back as well.

 

But as long as Bioware has something in mind for more content(Level 50 is lacking on my JK) then I think it can hold it's own if things change. If this game is in the same state however when Diablo 3 or MoP comes out then the whole prophecy about successful MMO will just be a dream. But right now they still have the chance to make this a keeper :)

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I disagree with most of OP's post. I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, Everquest, DAOC, Anarchy, Asheron's Call, and most of the major ones in between. I'm always trying new ones out.

 

If any of the games I listed listened to OP they would never have made it.

 

Bioware has people who have worked on many of those games now working on SWTOR.

 

You are comparing SWTOR to all current generation MMOs which is a mistake. You should really be looking at the first, second, and third generation mmos that lasted for years.

 

Auto-attack is not necessary. You're playing the game... there should be no auto abilities. It didn't break games that brought the genre into the mainstream like UO, EQ, DAOC, and AC.

 

I'm worried that Bioware is going to back down before they can even show what they've got. The Golden Age of PvP was a decade ago. WoW killed it by dumbing it down.

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Wow I can't beleive so many people are buying this, people are so gullable these days. If this guy is an actual goldman analyst which I doubt, hes a ****** one.

 

Indeed he is: WoW proved EVERYTHING he said in his post is wrong.

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One his analysis is based on some faulty and flawed logic, ignores other factors, etc.

 

Have a hard time believing someone supposedly a "Goldman" analyst would make so many mistakes.

 

And if he is actually a "Goldman" analyst, thanks for screwing over the tax payers.

 

 

My bet, he's another of the mansion, 5 car garage types.

Edited by Deyjarl
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I found the OP interesting and worthy of reading, but then I disagree with it based on the uncertainty principle. The OP takes a lot of time to present first impressions as a rationale for discourse but doesn't take into account any effort that Bioware might make to fix and alleviate the problems that are causing a lot of the concern for this game.

 

1. 50+ playability. Almost every MMO that gets released suffers here in the beginning, mainly because the developers don't have anyone at 50 to really play through the game. Almost always, the process is focused on getting the game out the door and then working on making the higher end of the game better. I would have to assume that they are working on metrics and ideas that will make the story elements of the game at 50+ just as engaging as the rest of the game. They're not stupid, no matter how much someone wants to paint them that way. They designed a great, fun game so far, so my belief is that they're going to focus enough attention to keep designing interesting, fun content.

 

2. The bugs. Every game has bugs when you first start out. Hopefully, they'll work on it. Their customer service is lacking right now, but it's not hostile like SOE's was almsot from the start. It's just not that present, meaning one of two things: They either don't care about their customers, or they're a bit overwhelmed with the launch of the game. My hope is on the latter because that means there is still hope for them to recover and then start addressing customers. The whole robotic response thing (the droid) that says it got your message and then ignores you needs to change. I hope they work on that.

 

3. The game just launched, which means its growth is really unknown to everyone right now. Word of mouth is really important, and quite often that sells the game months down the line. Right now, if anyone asks me my opinion on the game, I tell them to play it and enjoy it like I am. I have to believe there are a lot of people doing just that as well. Not everyone is an Internet troll complaining 24/7 whenever a game gets released. Some of us actually like the games we play. We'll have to wait and see what happens. But if Bioware starts fixing bugs and addresses issues in a timely fashion, those comments are going to continually get stronger, bringing more people to the game.

 

4. Goldman Analysts themselves. Certainly didn't see the housing bubble or the entire meltdown of the economy. There's a reason the 99% want them brought up on charges, and there's a reason senators are going nuts whenever they have them in front of them to testify. They're not all as brilliant as they like to make out they are. Some are; others proved to be morons.

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