This is where you learn, my friend! I've done it once on my main (though, that was during the few weeks following launch proper and the token system was in use) and twice on my alts. Yeah, it sucks and you go down fast. But, you learn how to get the most out of your class in a very short amount of time. Also, you learn key survival techniques. There's more to PvP than charging in and trying to bash face, mate. I'm sure you'll be fine, just keep at it. P.S.: If you want to see just how nice Recruit gear is, do some Warzones in PvP gear.

But you don't have to lose Expertise to get them and you certainly aren't "gimping" yourself by stacking Expertise. In fact, you're only "gimping" yourself if you start ditching Expertise. My comments aren't directed toward your assertion that ditching accuracy/alacrity for other things is a good idea. They're directed toward your assertion that one can somehow benefit from getting rid of Expertise for other stats. The problem there is, there isn't anything there to replace your Expertise. And no, I'm not the PvP forum Police. I doubt there is such a thing, in fact. But, this thread is for people with questions and comments relative to the article in the main post. Not for people to spout unresearched rubbish and pass it off as fact. So, I ask you again, please stop. There is no mathematical data to substantiate your claim. I'm not saying that it's wrong (that's subjective), I'm saying that it's mathematically unsubstantiated and therefore incorrect.

It's not min/max, it's optimisation. Balance, if you will. Please read the whole thread and article before posting more feedback. Thanks!

That's because power from the stat and MainStat are both linear, and therefore shouldn't need a graph.

Alright, I'm going to have to put a stop to this. Hotbox, I hate to say this to people, but you're absolutely incorrect on this and I would appreciate it if you would stop propagating false information in this thread. To that end, I am going to show you the light, as it were. The mods and enhancements in all end-game PvP and PvE gear are identical (check for yourself if you like) with the exception of the PvP bits having expertise added; they do not sacrifice anything in the way of stats for expertise. This was clearly an intentional change by BioWare to stop the blending of PvE and PvP gear. The armorings are, indeed, different. Rakata armorings, for example, have either +44 Endurance and +61 MainStat or +55 Endurance and +51 Mainstat whereas Battlemaster armorings have +31 Endurance, +33 MainStat, and +50 Expertise. Meaning that, the only "improvement" that you could make would be a small amount of Endurance and MainStat, sacrificing 50 Expertise each time. And, guess what? If you swapped all of your armorings, you'd lose 250 Expertise and have very little to show for it. So, no. Sacrificing expertise for more damage/healing does not work anymore and claiming the contrary is absolutely false. Now that you know the truth, please stop spreading misinformation. Thank you.

Not at all what I was saying. I can see how you could read that into it, though. Sorry about that. I mean to say that I didn't account for peoples' different quantitative methods. Some can glean the mathematics at work simply by reading the written word. Others have to see the calculations. It's certainly not a bad thing, just something that I didn't anticipate. I've got a few things to do yet this morning, but I'll get to all your posts as soon as I can. Thanks for all the wonderful feedback.

I would suggest that you stop looking for the answers and find your own, mate. That is, find what you're comfortable with as crit rating is concerned. What do you think is too little, too much, or just enough? That's what I really want players to do after reading my article. You don't have to agree with me (and many seem not to ), but I hope to provide the first stepping stone, as it were. After that, each player has to decide what he/she is comfortable with. So, I'm going to ask you: what do you think is too much or too little crit?

Now this, I completely agree with. I wish that tank gear had as much potency in PvP as DPS gear does. What's more, I think that it's a shame that PvP tanks (in tank gear) are relegated to "counter-bullies", as it were. I do agree with you on the topic of Marauders/Sentinels. Tank gear certainly doesn't counter them (and I don't think that you were insinuating that it did), but it can slow them down. I suppose that my big beef with tank PvP gear is that it turns the player into something of a one-trick pony, if you like. That is, all they're going to be good for is soaking up damage and taunting. Whereas, wearing DPS gear, one can accomplish the same thing with strikingly similar effectiveness whilst retaining the ability to deal substantially more outgoing damage. I hope that made sense; it's about bedtime for me and I tend to get a bit discombobulated when I'm sleepy lol. Thanks again for discussing and reading. I think that you've helped me understand my own position on tank gear a bit better and I'll be sure to change the article accordingly.

An absolutely fair point about the War Hero gear. I decided to do Battlemaster now because I think that there are a lot of people that are grinding for their War Hero gear and it will serve as a good source for fresh 50s (or alts) just getting in to their BM gear. I do plan on doing a similar sort of post for War Hero gear, but at this point it's not looking like it will be necessary. Since, BioWare seems to have put all of their "good itemisation mojo" into War Hero lol. But, as it becomes more common in PvP, I'll revisit the idea and see where it goes. I completely agree with your other two points. Again, if you find that something works better for you, use it. My article is more of a "starting point" for optimisation since what is "better" can be subjective to a degree. Thank you for reading and posting!

I'm really glad that you've decided to post this! I really want players to see my article as more of a "starting point" for optimising gear. I am in no way saying that everything that I'm suggesting is the only correct way to do it. But, I am saying that I think it's a bloody good place to start. If your playstyle favors lower crit and more power, do what works for you! Good luck in Warzones and with your gear. Thanks for posting and reading.

I respect your opinion although I don't share it. The cases that you've pointed out are, in fact, the reason that I chose to call tank gear "two shades shy of useless". It isn't completely useless, it just has very few uses when compared to DPS gear. This is due almost entirely to the metagame, though, and may change with time. As to your experience, your claim is that your gear set is effective against 3 of 8 possible classes — that's only 37.5%. I won't doubt your claims, but I still don't see the benefit in preparing to face < 50% of the classes that you might encounter. Though, I'll admit that this may be a purely normative matter. Regarless, thank you for posting and reading!

I really can't even answer this. I have already addressed these questions in previous posts herein, or in the column itself. I suggest you reread the column and this thread for the answer that you seek. Rest assured, though, real math is at the foundation of the article. Whether one is capable of comprehending the implication of it through written word is, however, a different matter entirely.

450-500 Power = irrelevant; it's linear and should be piled on once non-linear stats are optimised. 32-35% Crit ≈ 450 Critical Rating. 74-76% Surge ≈ 300 Surge Rating. Expertise at 500 = irrelevant; if you're in PvP you take as much of this as you can get. I appreciate you're reading my column (if you did), but I'd like to keep posts moving forward. I can make a redux on my own to reiterate my work if I want to. But, thank you for trying.

Well put. I should probably comment on this, though since I've been asked to a few times lol. GRAPH Here's the deal: we stop at ≈300 Surge because it's at the very tippy-top of the benefit return curve. If we put any more into it, it wouldn't yield enough to justify doing so. We stop at ≈450 Crit (if not less) because the point is more or less in the middle of the "bow" of the function. Now, what do you notice about Power and MainStat Power and Critical? That's right, they're linear. Meaning that once you've achieved an "optimal" amount of stats whose benefit functions increase exponentially, you switch to the linear stuff. In this case, that's Power, MainStat, and Endurance (although I didn't include it in the graph). I think that should just about do it

The idea behind that one is really to discourage the "IMMA MAX MY DPS BRO!" sort of approach one finds in PvE. Because in PvP, that approach really isn't optimal. Sure, you can do it if you want, but you'll be putting yourself at a disadvantage. The idea being that even if you're not doing max DPS, you're alive longer, giving your opponent the time to make a mistake, or your healer the time to get some love headed your way. More than anything, though, how much HP you're comfortable with has to do with your playstyle. But, as a general rule, if you can get more HP, you should. Because, generally, you don't have to give up much in the way of other stats for it. I hope that made sense. Thanks for reading!

Of course Snipers/Gunslingers, Marauders/Sentinels, and Powertechs/Vanguards exist on my server. In fact, I would assert that they exist on every server. So, it's sort of a ridiculous question, isn't it? That solved, let's get to what I'm assuming is the point that you're trying to make: several DPS classes that do big burst damage have "white damage" heavy rotations. I'll break it down by the classes that you've mentioned. Keep in mind that there4 are 4 attack types: Force, Tech, Melee, and Ranged. Force and Tech attack types are "yellow damage" and Melee and Ranged are "white damage". Also, there are 4 damage types: Kinetic, Energy, Elemental, and Internal. Kinetic and Energy are mitigated by armor and Internal and Elemental are not. Operative: All of the Operative's main damage abilities (Hidden Strike, Backstab, Acid Blade, and Shiv) are Tech abilities. So, even if your shield chance was at 100%, it wouldn't trigger on their main abilities. However, since all of the abilities are also kinetic save acid blade, their damage is mitigated by armor rating of which a high number may be achieved simply by wearing heavy armour of any type (tank or DPS). So, there you have it. But, If I'm honest, I'm not sure why you decided to bring this class up. Rage Spec Juggernauts: Smash (the big damage ability for this build) is a Force ability dealing kinetic damage. So, again, the ability won't trigger a shield and is mitigated by armour rating. Not sure where you were going with this one, either. NEXT! Sniper: The majority of the Sniper's main damage abilities (Ambush, Followthrough, Takedown, etc) are Ranged (white damage) and are from sniper rifles, therefore dealing energy damage. Meaning that they can trigger shield and are mitigated by armour rating. So, yes, this is a good example of a class that will not do well against a tank-geared opponent. Powertech: I'm not sure what kind of Powertechs you've been going up against, but, regardless of gear, Rail Shot is brutal for tanks. Although it does white damage and therefore can trigger a shield, it also has (properly specced) +50% amor penetration, +30% critical damage, and +9% damage to burning targets. I don't know what else to say about this, really. Rail Shot is just nasty for tanks and isn't made any less so by tank gear. Marauders: I'm skipping over this one because it is completely asinine. Marauders tear through every class with varying degrees of effectiveness. The only difference between a DPS and Tank geared player is the length of time it takes the Marauder/Sentinel to kill them. To summarise: I'm sticking with my original assertion — that tank gear is two shades shy of useless in PvP in its current state. If it gave significantly higher boosts to HP, Armor, and perhaps even Defense rating, it would be more useful. But, Shield and Absorption Rating only shine in PvE. In PvP they are, again, two shades shy of useless. Moreover good sir, I would counter your final assertion with one of my own. Indeed, I assert that the "bad" player is the one who gears to counter one relatively uncommon class out of the eight possible. Not the one that gears DPS to maintain effectiveness against the other seven. Furthermore, I suggest that if you want to post criticism of ones work, you perform far more in-depth research than you have here — and be a bit less rude when going about it. To offer some constructive criticism of my own, might I suggest that, perhaps you consider not posting the first things that come to your mind in the order that they arrive. That said, I do thank you for comments and giving me a chance to clear this up and, of course, for taking the time to read my article.

As a Powertech, yes. I'm going to modify the post to be a bit more explicit about this, in fact. The only enhancements containing surge that can be found in Battlemaster gear are in Commando Assault Cannons. So, it seems that only Republic players will have access to them. Therefore, it would be best for Empire players (unless they can find some surge enhancements/mods in PvE) to forego the surge boost phase and skip straight to phase II. Thanks for reading and bringing this up!

Typos and misstatement on my part, I'm afraid. After going through so many enhancements and mods I suppose that it was bound to happen. To clarify: I mean to reference the +40 End enhancements with Power and use the mods to augment Critical since you have more variability in how much crit you're adding (+37 or +11). So that, as you get closer to your critical rating target (be it 450 or 200 lol), you can switch to the "A" version of the critical mod and stack on some extra Endurance and Main stat in addition. The logic being that, since power increases linearly, you can pile it on without sacrificing much (or anything if you stack power in enhancements) in the way of main stat and endurance. The drawback being that you're also stacking on Alacrity/Accuracy, but we haven't got much of a choice in that. Critical Rating, however, increases at an exponential rate, and therefore we want to add as much as we can while the benefit received per point is increasing at an increasing rate and reduce the amounts that we're adding (switching to the "A" mods in this case) as the benefit return per point diminishes since we will gain more overall from the additional Endurance and Main stat than we would have from the amount of critical that we're sacrificing. No, I'm not implying that. The lists are simply reference tools for you to see which pieces of gear have the modifications and/or enhancements that you want. You could look on the PvP vendors a bunch, but I find it easier to type in a URL. . Ultimately, the mods and enhancements to be used are completely up to you and your playstyle. Lastly, would it be helpful if I included an askmrrobot.com armory profile for each advanced class to demonstrate the concepts that I'm trying to convey here? Perhaps even they could be used as templates? If I can get some feedback on this, I'll add them tomorrow. I hope that I've answered your questions. Thank you for reading!

lol nice catch! Sorry about that. All fixed now — have at it! Thanks for reading and letting me know about the link, btw. I appreciate the comments here and on the site.

To keep this short: as a physicist, I would love nothing more than the delve into the figures and functions that dictated why I chose what I did. However, I have made it a habit not to get too "mathy" on people. Because, when I do, it's as though I board a mathematics bullet-train to Rantville, and the vast majority of people neither care nor want to know about the maths involved in much of anything. Also, the only people who like to board train are other physicists, scientists, or mathy types. That said, I assure you that I didn't pick the figures out of thin air. You can find oodles of functions and graphs on our forums (formerly sithwarrior.com) that will show why I chose the points that I did. I hope this helps. Thanks for reading!

Yup! The two at the top on the enhancements page. Unfortunately for Empire players, though, I've only been able to find them on Commando Assault Cannons and not the Mercenary Blasters. But, they do exist. I hope this helps. Thanks for reading!

No, it's not a bug. It's only been rendered useless by the metagame. That is, PvP is so bursty now that (generally speaking) tanks won't be alive long enough to have time to do what they do best — outlast cockroaches and twinkies. Also, because of the combat mechanics at work, only melee and ranged "white damage" can trigger a tank's shield. So, since the majority of "big boom" abilities in SWTOR aren't "white damage", and since tank PvP gear tends to slap on Absorption and Shield Rating, I'm sure that you can see where the problem lies. I've actually got a column in the works regarding tanks and PvP. Specifically, how to utilise them effectively. So, I'll have more info on this topic after a bit. Also, tank specs are still (in my opinion) fantastically effective if played in role in PvP. Just not the gear. I hope this answered your question. Thanks for reading!

Accuracy (as well as alacrity for casters) is sort of an "evil of necessity". That is to say that, as a stat, it doesn't do that much for you in PvP, but there's really no way of getting rid of it. So, since you're pigeon-holed into having it, you may as well make sure that you've got enough to where it will make some difference. That's why I've got it at the end of the priority lists. I hope this answered your question. Thanks for reading!

Yeah, Marauders/Sentinels got the long straw for out-of-the-box set stats. My suggestion for you would be to replace your feet and chest pieces' mods to Deft or Potent 25A. This way you get the most Strength and Endurance out of your mod pool. Strength is key for Marauders/Sentinels because, in addition to increasing power, has a much less dramatic diminishing returns curve and can net better returns per point (for crit) after ≈400. You've got to look at the enhancements page to find the Surge addition. Unfortunately though, there are only two enhancements in Batlemaster gear that have Surge and they're both found on Commando Assault Cannons. The Empire equivalent (Mercenary Blasters) don't have the same enhancement. So, it seems that -- at the Battlemaster level -- only Republic players have access to an enhancement with Surge. That said, I believe that most of the War Hero sets have a few Surge pieces in them in cheaper pieces. So, that might be an option. The stats themselves aren't homogeneous. What I meant by that is that, regardless of class or role, the stat priorities are pretty much the same. Meaning that any PvP player should (generally) be trying for ≈300 Surge, ≈450 Crit, then stack power whilst trying to keep as much Endurance and Main Stat as possible. I hope this answered your questions. Thanks for reading!

Hey Guys, I have a new feature up at mmo-mechanics.com on how to optimise your PvP gear using the mods available in the gear for your class and the enhancements from any other class' gear. Head over and check it out. Let me know what you think, and, as always, questions and comments are welcome. Enjoy! --Starr