Why are so many people saying this game is bad?

[Esaru]

Silly person. You are not very comfortable outside of a binary paradigm are you?

 

Right/wrong has nothing to do with opinion or debate per se. They only impart a quality upon opinion and debate.

 

Actually, to debate requires differing (sometimes opposing) opinions, not right/wrong.

 

Now, while opposing opinion could be arbitrarily distilled down to binary theorums of right vs wrong, this is rarely the case in reality. If you ever participated in collegiate debate, you would know this as a reality of discussion between human beings. If you ever participated in a political or religious discussion you would know this as a practical matter of human nature.

 

Humans are not binary expressions of reality.

 

No matter how hard you try to make them that way through your dictatorial proclomations and ad hominem attacks, they remain non-binary expressions of reality.

 

LOL that's because I'm not debating with you. I made that clear. I have no reason to debate with you and the other poster because I know what is reality in this case and what isn't.

 

You didn't even quote the rest of my reply, which leads me to believe that you didn't even read it. I'm an advocate of the absolute truth. I don't really care how strongly you feel about something or whether it's a 'practical matter of human nature'. Frankly, it's irrelevant, especially if you're opposing strong evidence. I care about the truth and only the truth of the situation, which the poster (and you) continuously deny. Again, I am not debating with you, because you CANNOT debate with an individual who refuses to see the reality of situations in the face of obvious evidence.

 

For certain situations and topics that don't involve facts and essential truths then what you're saying can apply. But when someone on this forum is telling me that the game is a 'huge, living breathing social world', you're going up against tons of evidence to the contrary with no evidence to support it. You can believe that if you want, I won't stop you. I also won't debate with you about it. I'll just let you know how willfully ignorant you're being about it. Call it an ad hominem, I'll call it a somewhat rude (but justified) wake-up call.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Esaru

[Kaonis]

The game is fun, and the first 30 levels are a total blast with awesome quests and interesting characters.

 

After 30 when you finish your chapter 1 story, and begin chapter 2, it's boring. The quests just get worse and worse (and you could argue this boring repeat quests begin before 30 even) and are the same thing just with a long dialog preventing you from doing it and the story involved is never that interesting any more.

 

Then there's endgame, a mess of bugs and BW decided to do a lot of bad game play decisions on various things.

 

People are complaining for a lot of very valid reasons, but I think the most obvious one (behind the bugs) is just how everything drops off a cliff after 30. So the first 20-25 levels and the quests involved are really polished and really get you into the game, then you find yourself begrudgingly doing the cut scenes with bland characters only to hope that THIS is the cut scene and quest they spent time on to have a few seconds of awesomeness only to be drowned out by hours of more repeated boring quests.

 

And this isn't even talking about the people who leveled another alt to higher levels where they repeat the same quests again and again. I'm only 31 on my Gun Slinger alt and I'm already finding myself spacebarring every conversation just to level faster so I can see the new story quests for my class which is all I really want to see by then, because it's the only new stuff I haven't seen again and again and again.

[SirRobin]

The game is fun, and the first 30 levels are a total blast with awesome quests and interesting characters.

 

After 30 when you finish your chapter 1 story, and begin chapter 2, it's boring. The quests just get worse and worse (and you could argue this boring repeat quests begin before 30 even) and are the same thing just with a long dialog preventing you from doing it and the story involved is never that interesting any more.

 

Then there's endgame, a mess of bugs and BW decided to do a lot of bad game play decisions on various things.

 

You noticed that too? Yeah, Chapter 2 seems rather lame compared to Chapter 1 for the classes I've played.

[Andryah]

You didn't even quote the rest of my reply, which leads me to believe that you didn't even read it.

 

You are easily mislead then, by yourself....which by the way is incongruent with:

 

I'm an advocate of the absolute truth.

[Esaru]

You are easily mislead then, by yourself....which by the way is incongruent with:

 

Just because I search for absolute truth doesn't mean I don't have beliefs that have some evidence congruent with the truth. They are beliefs that are the most favourable given the situation. You only quoted the FIRST sentence of my reply, and only bothered to hark on that point. Unless you make it clear (which you haven't) that you've actually read and replied to what I was saying, then I don't know what you're expecting.

 

Also, ad hominem! yay!

Edited March 4, 2012 by Esaru

[JediElf]

This game, is unique, it's a diamond in the rough, and a gem of cinema and storytelling in a sea of 'raid lotz gets purplz, raid more' style MMO grind fests.For once the story of the game is front and center stage.

 

For once in a long time I really care about my character, I care about the choices he makes, and I ponder over how his actions will affect those around him. I'm actually involved in what my character does.

 

It's a great feeling, and one I haven't had in a MMO, for a long time.

 

This game is new, it's in a baby stage with plenty of time to grow, and improve.

 

However...

 

I'd like to see that improvement stay the course of putting the story first, of putting the player immersive experience first, and making this game an interactive cinematic master piece. it dose not need all the same element, or make any of the same mistakes, that MMOs have done for years.

 

We live in an age where MMOs are all around us, and they all cater to different kinds of players. For every 'old guard' hardcore that losses interest, new players will emerge who love Star Wars, and love how Bioware weaves it's storytelling into every aspect of this game.

 

Not all MMOs are for all folks, and they don't have to be, this game is fun as it is. ^_^

Edited March 4, 2012 by JediElf

[moneky]

From a guy with no MMORPG experience coming new into this one I would have to say its bad. 2 months of subscription and I've already cleared all the hard contents(Nightmare operations and all hard modes) reached battlemaster rank and hell even before BM I was taking down fully geared battlemasters with my level 49 pve weapon. Game is a total joke when you hit end game. Its just grind grind grind all day. Ilum was fun when it wasn't a total one sided zerg and wz's were fun until you realize that you've been in each wz over 100 times.

[Cepheid]

This game, is unique, it's a diamond in the rough, and a gem of cinema and storytelling in a sea of 'raid lotz gets purplz, raid more' style MMO grind fests.For once the story of the game is front and center stage.

 

For once in a long time I really care about my character, I care about the choices he makes, and I ponder over how his actions will affect those around him. I'm actually involved in what my character does.

 

It's a great feeling, and one I haven't had in a MMO, for a long time.

 

This game is new, it's in a baby stage with plenty of time to grow, and improve.

 

However...

 

I'd like to see that improvement stay the course of putting the story first, of putting the player immersive experience first, and making this game an interactive cinematic master piece. it dose not need all the same element, or make any of the same mistakes, that MMOs have done for years.

 

We live in an age where MMOs are all around us, and they all cater to different kinds of players. For every 'old guard' hardcore that losses interest, new players will emerge who love Star Wars, and love how Bioware weaves it's storytelling into every aspect of this game.

 

Not all MMOs are for all folks, and they don't have to be, this game is fun as it is. ^_^

 

Really happy you like to romanticize the ins and outs of marketing and business but that's not really how it works. Hardcore gamers keep up the sites that generate interest and bring more people to the game. Enjoy your SPRPG.

[Tiaa]

I play this over WoW because I can enjoy it when I feel like it. However, that feeling only applies to alts as I have quit my level 50 due to the boring gameplay at 50.

 

SWTOR isn't bad but you're kidding yourself if you can't understand how mediocre SWTOR is.

 

On top of this, how some bugs/ broken features even made it to launch is the worse. Like how this game is supposed to have mirror classes ,yet somehow Empire ended up with tons of skills that were/are stronger than Republic. Or Kira not working for three builds in beta and at launch. Or there still being ability delay in the game though it was "fixed"...

 

Personally, I think this game was made by an egotistical team that did their job, but they didn't like their job.

 

And like most people who work at jobs or on projects they hate, they took short-cuts and did as little as possible just to get it over with.

 

That's how I feel at least.

 

I'm willing to bet that most people that think this game is the "best" MMO ever...have played very few MMOs, have played no other MMO and/or are barely active on this game.

 

Anyhow, I'm just ridin' the train; waitin' for my stop.

[JediElf]

Really happy you like to romanticize the ins and outs of marketing and business but that's not really how it works. Hardcore gamers keep up the sites that generate interest and bring more people to the game. Enjoy your SPRPG.

 

Why change a game from a rich storytelling experience, into a soulless gear grind for 'top dog' guilds.

 

I'd hate to see this game turn into another outlet for Alpha Male Posturing.

 

I

 

I'm willing to bet that most people that think this game is the "best" MMO ever...have played very few MMOs, have played no other MMO and/or are barely active on this game.

 

I've been playing MMOs for a really long time. Longer than I want to admit to....

 

...and I freaking love this game. I love it for what it is, and especially, for what it isn't.

Edited March 4, 2012 by JediElf

[Ansultares]

Just because I search for absolute truth doesn't mean I don't have beliefs that have some evidence congruent with the truth. They are beliefs that are the most favourable given the situation. You only quoted the FIRST sentence of my reply, and only bothered to hark on that point. Unless you make it clear (which you haven't) that you've actually read and replied to what I was saying, then I don't know what you're expecting.

 

Also, ad hominem! yay!

Quit feeding the trolls.

[BlackZoback]

Really happy you like to romanticize the ins and outs of marketing and business but that's not really how it works. Hardcore gamers keep up the sites that generate interest and bring more people to the game. Enjoy your SPRPG.

 

Me thinks you are romanticizing the effect the "hardcore" crowd has on a game. If it was any thing like your dreaming of PoP would have been a rousing success in EQ and Cataclysm would be hailed as a monumental success.

[Andryah]

This game, is unique, it's a diamond in the rough, and a gem of cinema and storytelling in a sea of 'raid lotz gets purplz, raid more' style MMO grind fests.For once the story of the game is front and center stage.

 

For once in a long time I really care about my character, I care about the choices he makes, and I ponder over how his actions will affect those around him. I'm actually involved in what my character does.

 

It's a great feeling, and one I haven't had in a MMO, for a long time.

 

This game is new, it's in a baby stage with plenty of time to grow, and improve.

 

However...

 

I'd like to see that improvement stay the course of putting the story first, of putting the player immersive experience first, and making this game an interactive cinematic master piece. it dose not need all the same element, or make any of the same mistakes, that MMOs have done for years.

 

We live in an age where MMOs are all around us, and they all cater to different kinds of players. For every 'old guard' hardcore that losses interest, new players will emerge who love Star Wars, and love how Bioware weaves it's storytelling into every aspect of this game.

 

Not all MMOs are for all folks, and they don't have to be, this game is fun as it is. ^_^

 

I agree.

[SBite]

The ability to whisper someone is a basic feature in a MMO, the ease of which to do so is not.

 

I do agree you should be able to, but its more of a QoL issue then a "feature", so try again.

 

You may want you to define what's basic and what's not but sadly it isn't so. Useful array of guild and social features (including the missing guild bank and chat bubbles) are long(as of years long) considered more then basic.

Edited March 4, 2012 by SBite

[Ansultares]

Red herring? Straw man? Not sure which, but are we to assume that a statement made by random guy A on the internet holds more merrit then every major gaming outlet in the world? ;p

Every major gaming outlet is waiting for the next exclusive closed beta or pimp swag bag. They never seem to do their due diligence.

[BlackZoback]

You may want you to define what's basic and what's not but sadly it isn't so. Useful array of guild features (including the missing guild bank) are long(as of years long) considered more then basic.

 

Trying to think of a game that has had a plethora of guild based features at inception that this game is lacking, like Gbanks, but i'm drawing a very large blank.

 

For reference I have played in no particular order, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

 

Ultima Online

EQ

Asheron's Call

Dark age of Camelot

World of Warcraft

City of Heroes

Age of Conan

Warhammer

Aion

Rift

EvE

And this game

Edited March 4, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Andryah]

Trying to think of a game that has had a plethora of guild based features at inception that this game is lacking, like Gbanks, but i'm drawing a very large blank.

 

For reference I have played in no particular order, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

 

Ultima Online

EQ

Asheron's Call

Dark age of Camelot

World of Warcraft

City of Heroes

Age of Conan

Warhammer

Aion

Rift

EvE

And this game

 

True.... even the great and holy RIFT was lacking here. Yet RIFT gets a pass on this and SWTOR gets an ugly red stepchild style beating over it.

[Touchbass]

Trying to think of a game that has had a plethora of guild based features at inception that this game is lacking, like Gbanks, but i'm drawing a very large blank.

 

For reference I have played in no particular order, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

 

Ultima Online

EQ

Asheron's Call

Dark age of Camelot

World of Warcraft

City of Heroes

Age of Conan

Warhammer

Aion

Rift

EvE

And this game

 

Even though I disagree with you very strongly in another thread I think you are completely correct here. Anyone expecting expanded guild features in the inception of a MMORPG is out to lunch. Those are fluff features can come with time.

[LogicalPremise]

I am curious to know why all the hate for this game in this forum? I been playing for about a week now, and this is the most fun I have had with an mmo since I quit playing WoW.

 

Two reasons:

 

1) People have differing tastes and think somehow their tastes define good or bad.

2) People who are disappointed with the game want others to agree with them. Reverse fanboyism, basically. Call them hateboys.

 

There are people complaining about a specific issue -- that's okay. People complaining about everything, that the game will fail, blah blah blah, are hateboys. They're just complaining to complain. If they can't back up their talk with logic then it's just trolling.

 

"I think the End-Game is bad because of reasons 1, 2, and 3" is a valid issue.

"The game is dying and sucks, just a WoW clone" is not.

 

I am by far no supporter of Bioware, but every single argument that begins with living, breathing world I dismiss utterly. Not only was it never promised, but no one can show me or explain to me how such a thing matters in the slightest. Mobs moving around is just AI. It means nothing and it does nothing.

 

Most people that do complain about specific issues don't hate the game. We disagree strongly with some of the decisions that have been made. The biggest issue with beta is not really that bugs were ignored, per se, but that issues and decisions were made and feedback on them was ignored. I think (and I could be wrong, but someone has to say why) that criticism on decisions that are flat out bad is needed.

[Touchbass]

Two reasons:

 

Most people that do complain about specific issues don't hate the game. We disagree strongly with some of the decisions that have been made. The biggest issue with beta is not really that bugs were ignored, per se, but that issues and decisions were made and feedback on them was ignored. I think (and I could be wrong, but someone has to say why) that criticism on decisions that are flat out bad is needed.

 

Yeah, the game has so much potential but it has some issues that need to be addressed. Not including a LFD tool like WoW is fine, I understood the game wasn't going to launch with one and wasn't jiving with there philosophy of communities. That being said I expected them to put something that worked, instead we have this archaic piece of crap that just frustrates me to no end that i cannot group outside of my guild in a mmorpg in a timely manner. Second one is my own opinion that the quests in this game are too linear and not bountiful enough to divide up like in WoW.

[tmpearson]

I've had more fun with Anno 2070 in the last three days than I had with three months of SWTOR.

[Dahkot]

Completely agree OP , it is great fun the first week.

 

It's all downhill from there.

[Tiaa]

I've been playing MMOs for a really long time. Longer than I want to admit to....

 

...and I freaking love this game. I love it for what it is, and especially, for what it isn't.

 

Besides the story, may I ask what about this game you "love" so much?

 

As, I see the "story" as being very stale and fluff. Cinematics do not add any value to the gameplay and if you play this game enough you will find that there is very little difference in overall plot with ALL the classes and companion stories.

 

People always cite the story which makes sense. It's what Bioware hyped up. So now the excuse for bugs and bad gameplay is "the game is about story!"...Likewise with WAR it was all hyped for PVP, and just like SWTOR the pvp was good and everything else was bad.

 

I think my biggest gripe with this game is that it's labelled as an MMO when it clearly is not one. This game is more like APB, Phantasy Star, Global Agenda...meaning it's a game with a bunch of instances maps and not a real "massive" experience.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Tiaa

[Esaru]

I've had more fun with Anno 2070 in the last three days than I had with three months of SWTOR.

 

AMAZING game. So addicted right now haha

[Vecke]

OP: I'm not entirely sure your question was actually a question. I suspect it was just a set-up to an opinion, but just in case it was a genuine question, I'll give my opinion. More people are saying this game is bad because of a few reasons.

 

 

• More people are playing it, so there will naturally be more people complaining.
  
• Star Wars is an IP that people are very passionate about, so their disappointment is going to be a little more impassioned.
  
• The anticipation of this game was quite high and many folks (justified or not) had very high expectations.
  
• Many people came to the game from WoW, and have many expectations that are directly related to WoW, some thinking it should be different, others thinking it should be the same.
  

 

 

Those are just the first few I thought of. There are dozens of other reasons as well, but like I mentioned, I'm not entirely sure you actually wanted an answer to your question.

 

On a side note, I'd like to give some advice to some of the folks posting here. This advice comes purely from my anecdotal experience, so feel free to ignore it if you've had different results.

 

Here's a list of words and phrases that - in my experience - never help to move a debate forward:

 

"Logical Fallacy."

 

"Straw Man."

 

"Ad hominem."

 

"Red Herring."

 

"Fact!" (it gets even worse when put in quotation marks or followed by the word "your")

 

"lol" (especially when preceding or following a statement that disagrees with another statement, i.e. "lol that's ridiculous.")

 

There are more, but I'll stop there. Your experiences may be different, but I've never seen those phrases (whether appropriately used or not) do anything but derail and inflame a debate.

 

Just some friendly advice from someone that spends too much time lurking forums.