Jambert Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 How did WoW ever survive all that time before enabling dual specing? That post was indeed an overstatement. But I'm yet to see a reasonable post to NOT have a dual spec feature in the game. Having a single spec might work if you only do PvE, but if you do various things in game, PvP, PvE, whatever, and on a regular basis, it's a hellish money sink to respec at the moment, especially when there is such a variation on content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalophus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can guarantee that pretty much every single person against duel speccing either A.) doesn't raid, B.) doesn't PvP AND PvE, or C.) is a DPS. The "role"/RP reasoning behind this is moot, as no one is talking about AC changing and resetting your talents is already something that has existed since day one. And I still find the idea of someone leveling a Powertech as Shield and another Powertech as Prototype being a viable solution to having a DPS and tank to be preposterous (let alone if you want a third for PvP). Duel spec or a lower cap for respec should be a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Respec Trainer with increasing penalties to use =/= Dual Spec option to freely swap specs Speaking of geniuses, geez! Respec trainers break my roleplayign experience and I think they should be removed. I mean why can my character just forget about his healing skills and take more PEW PEW skills. It just doesnt make sense. My boyfriend told me its because wookies come from Endor can someone confirm this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you have that then why not just have a computer do it for you cross server as per a dungeon finder .. i mean it promotes about as much community Does it give me the ability to choose to decline people? To talk to them before they join etc? As I'm often leading PUGs, I really like to get to know what kind of a people I'm going to group with. Back on topic, yes. A group of people with specific specs will roll people will hybrid specs over like nothing. Dual spec will make the problem worse, because BW won't have to balance hybrid specs, since they won't even exist. Hybrid specs should be viable, and dual specs make them completely obsolete, since you can do something in one fight and another thing in the next, this removing a hybrid spec's usability. As such, such specs don't even get looked at by developers, because only a very very small percentage of people use them. As such, they go out of use due to them being non-viable. I'd rather see BW keep hybrid specs viable and competitive than introducing dual-spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) How did people survive without TV, Radio, Cars, the Internet, Planes...yada, yada, yada. Please stop using that horrible excuse. Just because we did something in the past doesn't make it better. But that is your argument! Your argument is that past games (WoW, etc) have dual spec so SWTOR should have it. /facepalm PS: Read the post I was responding to. Where it was said the game will fail without respec. Context is your friend. Edited January 5, 2012 by Saber_Six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordgracy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 How did WoW ever survive all that time before enabling dual specing? Because it was never implemented so people had to deal with it? They *****ed about it, which is rightfully so, so then they implemented it and ALOT of people were estactic about it. I being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 But that is your argument! Your argument is that past games (WoW, etc) have dual spec so SWTOR should have it. /facepalm No, his argument is that dual spec is a necessity and should be implented in every mmo, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylskopshandtag Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) But that is your argument! Your argument is that past games (WoW, etc) have dual spec so SWTOR should have it. /facepalm And your argument is, WoW have it SWTOR should not have it? Edited January 5, 2012 by Kylskopshandtag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Does it give me the ability to choose to decline people? To talk to them before they join etc? As I'm often leading PUGs, I really like to get to know what kind of a people I'm going to group with. Back on topic, yes. A group of people with specific specs will roll people will hybrid specs over like nothing. Dual spec will make the problem worse, because BW won't have to balance hybrid specs, since they won't even exist. Hybrid specs should be viable, and dual specs make them completely obsolete, since you can do something in one fight and another thing in the next, this removing a hybrid spec's usability. As such, such specs don't even get looked at by developers, because only a very very small percentage of people use them. As such, they go out of use due to them being non-viable. I'd rather see BW keep hybrid specs viable and competitive than introducing dual-spec. I dont know about other classes but I look at the Sage healer tree and there might as well not even be a healer talent tree. I think I have 3 points or so to play with after I take the obvious healing talents. I can only assume its the same for tanks (and I know it kinda is for sents / marauders with the trees buffing a specific stance). So I fail to see this "hybrid" builds you talk about, I do however see the potential for "gimp" builds that little timmy makes cos the talents look cool but share little synergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I'm very happy with this game and think there is FAR too much complaining... that being said, I'm disappointed that dual specs weren't introduced at launch and this will be one of the biggest factors in continuing my subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guarrand Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Its not even about it being hard its about it being *********** annoying. Let me sit and and respec for 5 mins then change all my bars around for another 10 mins then let me lose x amount of credits for having to repecs to fill a role we dont have. Its about conveinance and efficiency. When you can change spec and all your bars change with one button you are off and playing and having fun instead of sitting at the fleet dicking around with your bars, spec, etc. Wow did it for conveinance to the user instead of making the process TEDIOUS. Its about tedium its not about it being hard. Now you are changing your story. What you describe now is just making it easier/more efficient to RESPEC. Creating a Dualspec feature would mean u can switch willy-nilly from one spec to another without consequences or cost. That's just silly. I'm all for fantasy, fiction and flexibilty... but draw a line somewhere and dont cross it. Hell, i dont even think the Lore of SW allows it.... "Look, i'm a sith sorcerer... OH and now i'm a sith warrior...away with you double bladed lightsaber.. where are my dual wielding lightsabers!!!!" ... Come to think of it.... i might be willign to concede to a dualspec in your CURRENT CLASS.... As a Sith Jugg, you have 3 different talent trees.. I am willing to concede that you should be able to "dualspec" without costs through those 3 talenttrees. That way, a Jugg can be DPS or Tank... Its another think however to let a Sith Jugg Dualspecc a Sith Sorc... that would just break the game to much and make all the classes meaningless imho. Edited January 5, 2012 by Guarrand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 And your argument is, WoW have it SWTOR should not have it? If you have comprehension problems, sure you can believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Now you are changing your story. What you describe now is just making it easier/more efficient to RESPEC. Creating a Dualspec feature would mean u can switch willy-nilly from one spec to another without consequences or cost. That's just silly. I'm all for fantasy, fiction and flexibilty... but draw a line somewhere and dont cross it. Hell, i dont even think the Lore of SW allows it.... "Look, i'm a sith sorcerer... OH and now i'm a sith warrior...away with you double bladed lightsaber.. where are my dual wielding lightsabers!!!!" ... Come to think of it.... i might be willign to concede to a dualspec in your CURRENT CLASS.... As a Sith Jugg, you have 3 different talent trees.. I am willing to concede that you should be able to "dualspec" without costs through those 3 talenttrees. That way, a Jugg can be DPS or Tank... Its another think however to let a Sith Jugg Dualspecc a Sith Sorc... that would just break the game to much and make all the classes meaningless imho. I think you missed the point of this topic like 13 pages ago ... Dual spec is purely about changing your talent trees not classes or advance classes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belunos Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Now you are changing your story. What you describe now is just making it easier/more efficient to RESPEC. Creating a Dualspec feature would mean u can switch willy-nilly from one spec to another without consequences or cost. That's just silly. I'm all for fantasy, fiction and flexibilty... but draw a line somewhere and dont cross it. Hell, i dont even think the Lore of SW allows it.... "Look, i'm a sith sorcerer... OH and now i'm a sith warrior...away with you double bladed lightsaber.. where are my dual wielding lightsabers!!!!" ... Come to think of it.... i might be willign to concede to a dualspec in your CURRENT CLASS.... As a Sith Jugg, you have 3 different talent trees.. I am willing to concede that you should be able to "dualspec" without costs through those 3 talenttrees. That way, a Jugg can be DPS or Tank... Its another think however to let a Sith Jugg Dualspecc a Sith Sorc... that would just break the game to much and make all the classes meaningless imho. That's all I'm asking for. I've not seen anyone asking to change class or advanced class, just to have duel spec in the same advanced class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 but I still play my DPS characters more because guess what, I'm in a group a LOT less than when I'm playing alone. And these people are telling me to go play skyrim? I've been in a group pretty much the entire time I've been playing this game... The only exceptions were space missions and some class quests (why don't these have multiplayer in an MMO is beyond me, but that's another topic). I honestly am starting to see the problem now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastodonic Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The people who complain about dual spec are the EXACT same people who piss and moan there aren't enough healers and tanks. Hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think you missed the point of this topic like 13 pages ago ... Dual spec is purely about changing your talent trees not classes or advance classes ... Why the arbitrary line? Why not ACs? Why would you impede my fun? See how that plays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I dont know about other classes but I look at the Sage healer tree and there might as well not even be a healer talent tree. I think I have 3 points or so to play with after I take the obvious healing talents. I can only assume its the same for tanks (and I know it kinda is for sents / marauders with the trees buffing a specific stance). So I fail to see this "hybrid" builds you talk about, I do however see the potential for "gimp" builds that little timmy makes cos the talents look cool but share little synergy I have a guardian tank that has more points in dps than in the defense tree. It works great. There's even a guide for a quite similar build to mine in the guardian forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hybrid specs should be viable, and dual specs make them completely obsolete, since you can do something in one fight and another thing in the next, this removing a hybrid spec's usability. As such, such specs don't even get looked at by developers, because only a very very small percentage of people use them. As such, they go out of use due to them being non-viable. I'd rather see BW keep hybrid specs viable and competitive than introducing dual-spec. Right. Only a very very small percentage of people use them. This is not only true when DS is in, but when it is out too. If someone has a role in PvE, of course they're going to be fully specced in their ROLE. Having undefined roles like, oh hey, you're kinda healy but also kinda DPS doesn't work. You want to save a type of playstyle only a minority care about at the expense of the majority's desire for greater flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The people who complain about dual spec are the EXACT same people who piss and moan there aren't enough healers and tanks. Hypocrites. And the award for making things up goes to Mastodonic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guarrand Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think you missed the point of this topic like 13 pages ago ... Dual spec is purely about changing your talent trees not classes or advance classes ... I think you missed the progression of the topic. people are talking about dualspeccing to play tanks and healers ... now i dont know all classes yet, but i'm pretty sure there is no class that can be a tank AND healer just by changing talenttrees. its either DPS/Healing or DPS/Tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why the arbitrary line? Why not ACs? Why would you impede my fun? See how that plays! Um because an advance class you twit is an actual class whereas a talent tree is part of your class ... To be honest the only reason they made advance classes is so you didnt have 8 separate story line quests and they could condense it ... I hope you are smarter then this IRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicknss Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Why the arbitrary line? Why not ACs? Why would you impede my fun? See how that plays! And you mentioned comprehension problems... irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vessan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have a guardian tank that has more points in dps than in the defense tree. It works great. There's even a guide for a quite similar build to mine in the guardian forum. Yer but how would that hold up in Heroic style flash points or raids ? I mean hey I put 3 points into the dps tree for my healer from the get go for reduced force cost ... doesnt make me hybrid (I'd assume by hybrid you'd be say I dunno teir 4 of 2 talent trees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Right. Only a very very small percentage of people use them. This is not only true when DS is in, but when it is out too. If someone has a role in PvE, of course they're going to be fully specced in their ROLE. Having undefined roles like, oh hey, you're kinda healy but also kinda DPS doesn't work. You want to save a type of playstyle only a minority care about at the expense of the majority's desire for greater flexibility. I've met quite a lot of people in the game that are hybrid tanks or hybrid healers. They all said that if they did have dual-spec, they'd just roll both threes. So no, currently the amount of hybrid builds is large enough, and BW actually made them work quite well. As soon as there's dual spec, the usability of such builds falls to zero, and people won't roll them anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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