Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[salamanderx]

This thread has become ridiculous!

 

 

Most people want dual spec, hence why Bioware has said it's coming! End of story!

 

Dual spec makes sense more then not having it does. Not having it limits the game and content. If you limit accessibility/ease of use of content you lose subscribers.

 

Not everyone wants to grind 50 lvls to have a jedi guardian for pvp when they already have a lvl 50 guardian but in PVE gear. And the cost to switch is just a money dump that will simply turn people off. That's plain ridiculous. And honestly if you don't think it is, then thank god Bioware doesn't follow your business model.

 

And Sarlacc enforcers!!! Dammit those people at BW, the lies!!!

[Midasear]

I do all that with one spec. Whats your point?

 

Then you aren't playing in a tank or healing spec.

 

Seriously, Dual-Specs are not a make or break issue for me in the near term. My tank main and healer alt do ...ok..I guess when soloing. But there is zero question they leveled noticeably faster when they had DPS specs. And the Sawbones is not really cut out for PvP at all.

 

I would have more fun, and will likely play the characters more, grow more attached, and hence subscribe longer, if they eventually have access to dual-specs. I suspect most other players feel pretty much the same.

 

Honestly, the anti-dual-spec people strike me as weird, misguided and masochistic. SWTOR is pretty obviously an online theme park more than a hardcore, |_337 video game. Fun and happy feelings are what its all about. If you want to prove how hardcore you are by climbing up a steep learning & leveling curve, you really ought to be playing EVE or something.

[salamanderx]

Honestly, the anti-dual-spec people strike me as weird, misguided and masochistic. SWTOR is pretty obviously an online theme park more than a hardcore, |_337 video game. Fun and happy feelings are what its all about. If you want to prove how hardcore you are by climbing up a steep learning & leveling curve, you really ought to be playing EVE or something.

 

And the 10-spec AC-swap- advocating peeps see you the same way. At least I've got unity on my side with 1 spec. Why do you stop at wanting 2 specs? Isnt more better?

[Anomini]

This thread has become ridiculous!

 

 

Most people want dual spec, hence why Bioware has said it's coming! End of story!

 

Dual spec makes sense more then not having it does. Not having it limits the game and content. If you limit accessibility/ease of use of content you lose subscribers.

 

Not everyone wants to grind 50 lvls to have a jedi guardian for pvp when they already have a lvl 50 guardian but in PVE gear. And the cost to switch is just a money dump that will simply turn people off. That's plain ridiculous. And honestly if you don't think it is, then thank god Bioware doesn't follow your business model.

 

This. ^ I agree with. Because of the way the game is set up, I have to roll an entirely different toon just to TRY things out and see if I like something or if I'm not jelling with it. That means having to level two of the same class up, just in order to tinker around and see what I enjoy most at lvl 10 or lvl 20 (et cetera), playstyle-wise. But that's just the way I roll, and other's mileage may vary.

 

I expect those hoping for dps meters will eventually get them (somehow or other) so they can properly flex their e-peen muscles and debate amongst themselves what pwns more. In that respect, I don't see why dual spec should be a issue, either. *shrug* To each, their own.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Anomini

[CactusCat]

And the 10-spec AC-swap- advocating peeps see you the same way. At least I've got unity on my side with 1 spec. Why do you stop at wanting 2 specs? Isnt more better?

 

It is a reasonable compromise between people like you, who argue that one spec is fine, and people who want more than one option for their characters.

 

2 is a solid amount that allows variability and options within a single character, while not allowing them to cover every base there is. As always, respeccing is an option, so if a person really wants to, then technically they can fulfill every role that their AC allows them to.

 

Slippery slope arguments are so pointless - they hardly argue the issue at hand.

[salamanderx]

It is a reasonable compromise between people like you, who argue that one spec is fine, and people who want more than one option for their characters.

 

2 is a solid amount that allows variability and options within a single character, while not allowing them to cover every base there is. As always, respeccing is an option, so if a person really wants to, then technically they can fulfill every role that their AC allows them to.

 

Slippery slope arguments are so pointless - they hardly argue the issue at hand.

 

Though that would also need more supporting evidence, its also a "compromise" that satisfies one side and not the other. The people that are calling for multi-spec are few and far between in actuality, which begs the question where did this dual-spec idea come from?

 

Just one game I know of.

 

Not to cause excitement but I hate beating around the bush. I am trying to understand why dual spec, and it helps to know its source.

Edited January 5, 2012 by salamanderx

[Circk]

And the 10-spec AC-swap- advocating peeps see you the same way. At least I've got unity on my side with 1 spec. Why do you stop at wanting 2 specs? Isnt more better?

 

Ah, that's actually a good idea. I'll take three please and name them heal, solo and pvp.

[Spynnal]

Though that would need more supporting evidence, its also a "compromise" that satisfies one side and not the other. The people that are calling for multi-spec are few and far between in actuality, which begs the question where did this dual-spec idea come from?

 

Just one game I know of.

 

Again, pretend I never saw another MMO. I still can't help but notice the re-spec vendor, and have used him on weekends to change specs, and act as a healer for RL friends. Then you come to the forums and see a call for a system that lets it do the same thing w/o going to the Space Station, without having to re-fill out talent trees, and possibly costing you less.

 

You don't have to have come from WoW to hope they "make it so!"

[Sicknss]

Though that would also need more supporting evidence, its also a "compromise" that satisfies one side and not the other. The people that are calling for multi-spec are few and far between in actuality, which begs the question where did this dual-spec idea come from?

 

Just one game I know of.

 

Not to cause excitement but I hate beating around the bush. I am trying to understand why dual spec, and it helps to know its source.

 

I'd bet there are more people that want multiple specs than there are those that don't. Unfortunately these forums are overrun by haters that wouldn't be impacted at all by most of the things they post about. I'm pretty sure, again, that not implementing it would cause a far greater loss in subscriptions than implementing it would.

 

There are at least 2 games I know of that allow multiple specs, it's a great idea and once it appeared you realize how silly it is not to have it. Much like having separate inventory space for quest items. SWTOR isn't the first, but at this point no game should be without it... including that big name that first implemented multiple specs.

 

In the end it doesn't matter who invented the wheel, it'd be pretty ignorant not to use it.

[Kemosobe]

a) You obviously don't PVP so how about you stop posting about the subject.

 

b) Why is the idea of a stored Dual Spec so upsetting when we can respec when we like right now but it's cumbersome?

 

Explain how Dual Spec would make the game less fun for you please. No one seems to answer this simple question.

 

Actually, I have PvPed and am usually on top 3 people (in terms of medals and objectives). Doing the most damage is not a good way to determine if you are good at PvP.

 

"b) Why is the idea of a stored Dual Spec so upsetting when we can respec when we like right now but it's cumbersome?"

 

So you only want a dual spec because you are lazy and either do not want to have to go back to erase your spec or do not want to have to raise the money for it? That is a good reason for Bioware to implement something.

[Sicknss]

Actually, I have PvPed and am usually on top 3 people (in terms of medals and objectives). Doing the most damage is not a good way to determine if you are good at PvP.

Medals and objectives aren't always an indication of value either. As a Tank assassin I've carried quite a few teams in every WZ and I'm regularly near the bottom, go figure.

 

"b) Why is the idea of a stored Dual Spec so upsetting when we can respec when we like right now but it's cumbersome?"

 

So you only want a dual spec because you are lazy and either do not want to have to go back to erase your spec or do not want to have to raise the money for it? That is a good reason for Bioware to implement something.

 

So you're not going to answer the question? How exactly will you be impacted by this change, would you cancel?

[Kemosobe]

So you're not going to answer the question? How exactly will you be impacted by this change, would you cancel?

 

After just dual-spec, no I won't cancel but Bioware will no longer hold a high place in the gaming industry for me.

 

I will also shoot you the same question, what will you do if Bioware doesn't allow you to do somthing simply because you are lazy?

[HoneyBoy]

After just dual-spec, no I won't cancel but Bioware will no longer hold a high place in the gaming industry for me.

 

I will also shoot you the same question, what will you do if Bioware doesn't allow you to do somthing simply because you are lazy?

 

The antonym of lazy is hard-working. Why do you want to work in a video game? It should be fun not work.

[Godsfear]

After just dual-spec, no I won't cancel but Bioware will no longer hold a high place in the gaming industry for me.

 

I will also shoot you the same question, what will you do if Bioware doesn't allow you to do somthing simply because you are lazy?

 

You have to have huge balls to call someone lazy while you sit on the forums playing a video game.

 

How is the convenience of repeccing quickly and easily lazy exactly?

 

So are all Rift players lazy cause they all have 5 specs?

 

So the only non-lazy gamers in your esteemed opinion are gamers who play mmo's with no respeccing?

 

It sounds like you would like Darkfall or Mortal online then.

 

Most of us play games to have fun and relax, not do chores and work. I have a house to clean for that.

[MillionsKNives]

After just dual-spec, no I won't cancel but Bioware will no longer hold a high place in the gaming industry for me.

 

I will also shoot you the same question, what will you do if Bioware doesn't allow you to do somthing simply because you are lazy?

 

Why do people think calculators were a good idea, or cars? Because they're too lazy to do it themselves, or because it makes life easier?

 

Bringing up laziness is a non-argument

[Sicknss]

After just dual-spec, no I won't cancel but Bioware will no longer hold a high place in the gaming industry for me.

 

I will also shoot you the same question, what will you do if Bioware doesn't allow you to do somthing simply because you are lazy?

 

I've already stated that not having dual specs is one of the biggest things that would cause this otherwise happy player to leave. You can call it laziness if that somehow increases your own self value... I think you'll notice that most people wanting this feature are people that are far more progressed than those that aren't, and I don't think it's due to laziness.

[Mdesade]

I primarily play a tank in a mixture of solo PvE, group PvE and PvP situations. I do not want a dual spec system. The ability to switch into different specs limits the impact of the choices you make. Dual spec doesn't let you do everything possible, but it does let you do a heck of a lot.

 

I don't want to be the absolute best in every single situation I encounter. I want to play to my build's strengths, excel in certain areas, and rely on group members to fill in where my character might have weaknesses.

 

I do support some kind of respec system due to the long-term nature of MMO characters, and due to the way the game mechanics in MMOs can change; however it should not be easy or affordable to do all the time.

[HoneyBoy]

Why do people think calculators were a good idea, or cars? Because they're too lazy to do it themselves, or because it makes life easier?

 

Bringing up laziness is a non-argument

 

Unfortunately it's the one of the few (weak) arguments the anti-dual spec crowd cling onto, because any rational person would acknowledge that something that makes other peoples' game time easier, and more enjoyable while having no negative impact on their own if they choose not to participate in it, is a good thing for this game.

[Merkrius]

Let me be blunt. You're not trying to exploit your CHARACTER, you're exploiting the CLASS SYSTEM as if it were an in-game combat mechanic. At character creation, you pick a class based off of the role you want to play and then eventually select an AC to specialize that role further.

 

Flipping around at will for ease of use renders the class system moot. "I'm DPS, but now I'm TANKY and now I'm something else" fundamentally undercuts the entire REASON for choosing class/AC at all. We might as well just lump all the skills for each class/AC combination together into a single pudgy lump of a class choice and say to hell with it for all the rationale putting forth a choice and then rendering it moot at will makes.

 

 

I just don't know what is so hard to understand about the eloquently written statemnt above.

Honestly, why have ANY class system at all? Anyone? Can someone please explain to me why there isn't just ONE class that can do everything in the game? I mean it's an MMO but certainly THAT doesn't have anything to do with it right? Play an MMO to play with other people? what? no no no, I want my character to be able to do everything thank you.

 

What is it with all of the arcade gamers playing MMO's and then whining about how it doesn't "play" like an arcade game. The predominate whine I hear from the Dual Specers is " are you (explecitive) serious, grind up another character"? of course, your choice of words gives away your underlying contempt for MMO gameplay, so why not just change up the formula so it brings the MMO game more in line with the game you DO like to play. Well, thanks but no thanks, i'm just fine leaving MMO gameplay the way as it is in SWTOR and would thank you very kindly for NOT changeing the game to suit YOUR self interest. It will be truly unfortunate for the community as a whole if this works it's way into the game.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Merkrius

[Dodia]

Agreed, OP.

[Anzel]

I should be able to respec 100x/day if I feel like it. There is absolutely no reason for the restriction.

[HoneyBoy]

I primarily play a tank in a mixture of solo PvE, group PvE and PvP situations. I do not want a dual spec system. The ability to switch into different specs limits the impact of the choices you make. Dual spec doesn't let you do everything possible, but it does let you do a heck of a lot.

 

I don't want to be the absolute best in every single situation I encounter. I want to play to my build's strengths, excel in certain areas, and rely on group members to fill in where my character might have weaknesses.

 

I do support some kind of respec system due to the long-term nature of MMO characters, and due to the way the game mechanics in MMOs can change; however it should not be easy or affordable to do all the time.

 

Being that you can only be in 1 spec at a time for any given active encounter how does dual spec change anything you say. Every spec will still have it's strengths and weaknesses. You won't suddenly be able to solo hardmode flashpoints just because you have another inactive spec.

 

When I fight you in a PvP setting we're both limited by the 41 skill points we distributed for our given spec at the time so what's the problem? I doubt Bioware would allow us to switch in combat or in PvP Warzones if they ever did implement it. It's just a nice thing to have because sometimes I may feel like healing some flashpoints while other times I may want to try DPS spec X for soloing.

Edited January 5, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[Godsfear]

I hear the Amish don't like pockets because pockets are for lazy people.

 

The Amish also don't use electricity.

 

The Amish also don't drive cars and must feed and clean a horses poop up so that they have some form of transportation.

 

The Amish don't watch TV

 

The Amish don't believe in many modern conveniences.

 

I guess we should all become Amish then since they're less lazy and more unique.

 

Think about it, being Amish will make your decisions super impacting since you'll be the only one!

 

I think we should get rid of TV remotes since they make you lazy.

[Kemosobe]

I just don't know what is so hard to understand about the eloquently written statemnt above.

Honestly, why have ANY class system at all? Anyone? Can someone please explain to me why there isn't just ONE class that can do everything in the game? I mean it's an MMO but certainly THAT doesn't have anything to do with it right? Play an MMO to play with other people? what? no no no, I want my character to be able to do everything thank you.

 

What is it with all of the arcade gamers playing MMO's and then whining about how it doesn't "play" like an arcade game. The predominate whine I hear from the Dual Specers is " are you (explecitive) serious, grind up another character"? of course, your choice of words gives away your underlying contempt for MMO gameplay, so why not just change up the formula so it brings the MMO game more in line with the game you DO like to play. Well, thanks but no thanks, i'm just fine leaving MMO gameplay the way as it is in SWTOR and would thank you very kindly for NOT changeing the game to suit YOUR perfect little ideal. What an inconcevabley narrow mind you must have to not see how these supposedly "benign" changes affect EVERYONE.

 

This along with the person you quote.

[HoneyBoy]

I just don't know what is so hard to understand about the eloquently written statemnt above.

Honestly, why have ANY class system at all? Anyone? Can someone please explain to me why there isn't just ONE class that can do everything in the game? I mean it's an MMO but certainly THAT doesn't have anything to do with it right? Play an MMO to play with other people? what? no no no, I want my character to be able to do everything thank you.

 

What is it with all of the arcade gamers playing MMO's and then whining about how it doesn't "play" like an arcade game. The predominate whine I hear from the Dual Specers is " are you (explecitive) serious, grind up another character"? of course, your choice of words gives away your underlying contempt for MMO gameplay, so why not just change up the formula so it brings the MMO game more in line with the game you DO like to play. Well, thanks but no thanks, i'm just fine leaving MMO gameplay the way as it is in SWTOR and would thank you very kindly for NOT changeing the game to suit YOUR perfect little ideal. What an inconcevabley narrow mind you must have to not see how these supposedly "benign" changes affect EVERYONE.

 

The problem with your argument and the argument you linked is, dual spec still leaves the class system and the trinity system (Tank, DPS, Heals) perfectly intact. If I'm a Sith Sorcerer I suddenly can't tank stuff because the AC isn't built for that. The AC still retains its identity. Also each of the tank/heal/DPS specs all have a different "flavor" and approach to said role. That won't change just because people can change their specs.