See this game wont go F2P

[Nevincer]

The OP doesn't make any freakin' sense. Whilst everyone else is blabbering on about WoW vs. TOR, am I the only one frustrated at this? The alleged location of these "sneak peaks" was posted back in 2011, and it's about adding new flashpoints to the game, and nothing to do with slicing away half the gamebreaking issues.

[Zilliman]

Read the first few pages, and im shocked by how ignorant most seam to be. I have no other way to group these people other then being Ignorant gamers with a whining mentality. In order to explain this, I will sum it up.

 

First off. In terms of release, this game has had a very smooth and overall very few big issues, the Taris problem likely being the worst one they have had and they got working on that asap. And being a person who has been there at multiple MMO releases, only LOTRO has had a smoother one, but it being a game targeted at a much smaler market. Those stating that this game has had a bad start, simply have no clue at all on how most MMO's the last 3 years have gone during its start.

 

Second. Regarding missing features, alot of the desired features are the new features from wow. Like Dungeon Finder, More PvP Warzones, More zones in general to level in. While its true Wow have had a little more variation in options, like you could do Silverpine Forest instead of Barrens, its still not any better due to the fact the quality of the questing experience in wow has been ******. And for those that was there from the start can state it was very very grindy for a long time. Blizzard used many many years in a relative competative free enviorment to polish their game. People seam to forget all the issues wow has had. So basicly the amount of Content in TOR at release aint bad, a few more "alternative" planets like Quesh would be nice however, planets designed for 2 to 3 levels without to many quest lines. However, put this up on wishlist and get enough support behind it and Bioware might deliver.

 

Third. Stating it will fail because its a wow clone, I played wow. And I will tell you flat out, what the hell makes you think this is a clone of wow ? Dungeon system ? a raid system ? talent tree's ? dude thats been around in games like forever and are not trademarked for wow but because so many seam to play wow they seam to think it is. This game is using several common MMO features that has come to be called STANDARD in MMO's, this means not having it in is extremly risky. Its obvious that Bioware has made a game to target those that are looking for an alternative to wow, in doing so they have done a few things that has been briliantly done.

 

- They have made the voice acting and quest experience the by far best in recent MMO history, the quality of the questing experience in this game is amazing, this means quite alot of players will actualy level to max lvl for no other reason then following the story. This alone means Bioware has managed to get players to stay long enough to view their endgame, alot of MMO's struggle to get their players to STAY long enough to get to max level. This is the first big point to Bioware.

 

- While its not a clone, most players will be able to recongnize themselvs in SWTOR to other MMO's like wow, the concept of how the game works is close enough that most are able to catch on rather quickly making the learning curve of the game in the beginning very very easy, this means the game is very newbie friendly. Second big point to Bioware

 

- While one can not expect the level of finetuning in raid machanics etc from Bioware yet, they have stated clear that they are working on more content for us, more Warzones, Flashpoints, Operations and have statted they will add more low level content also. This already 3 weeks in, they are talking to us the community on what their plans are without revealing the details. And true there are tones of things I would LOVE to see in the game from other games, they are not required to make the game good.

 

 

 

So in short. Alot of people really need to learn what they are talking about before posting. But hey, its the internet, trolls and ignorant people are the majority. Expecting that to ever change is probably the most foolish of all.

 

 

I agree the release went OK although I started 2 days after and it may just be that the first two days may have given some players a bad impression.

 

It is your own opinion that quests in WOW are bad and in SWTOR are marvellous. Quests are quests, go kill 10 of these droids and 40 of these spice runners in SWTOR instead of 10 boars in WOW. If you played WOW first time it also has a story line, actually a multitude of story lines, it actually has books of story lines over SWTOR. However this being 7 years after launch you have seen it all and so it seems so ... old and beaten to you. Come back after 2-3 years and tell me how refreshing and entertaining the SWTOR quests are. Even now, at some level, 10, 15, 20 many players are just skimming over, especially the side quests. It is a nice feature but it is a single player game feature and cannot prop up an MMO. If SWTOR is ever an MMO.

 

SWTOR is a blatant copy of WOW and not of MMOs in general as you try to trivialise it. You can deny it all you like, and you can say that WOW stole this and that idea from EQ or whatever. Fact is mouse movement, camera, key bindings, talent system, abilities, even battle stances on my jedi consular. We are talking almost 1-to-1 here. If you do not see it then I can only say you are a fanboy.

 

Regarding added content, I will agree that people who complain about lack of content at endgame three weeks past release are a bit impatient. I suppose BIOWARE have given themselves a couple of months before needing to worry about end game content.

 

However if they had done their homework they would have seen how quickly new content gets consumed in WOW and should have prepared accordingly.

 

Modern MMOs keep "casualising" to appeal to the more casual players. Many restrictions and time sinks get removed all the time. WOW has been toned down since release, when millions of players whine how hard this and that is. To the point we now have the LFR system. I expect the next step will be when raid bosses commit suicide after 5 minutes.

 

Similarly SWTOR can only go one way: become easier and easier. This brings this problem: if it is so easy to level, what do you do at the top? Even if all the raids have now been made so simple, why will you stay? WoW still approaches this problem by offering "normal" and "heroic" versions of its end game dungeons but in my opinion this detracts from the game. I am not at all interested in wiping for 4 hours on a single raid boss when I have already downed that boss in LFR mode. It will be interesting to see how Bioare approach this, as they can easily judge from WOW's approach.

 

Currently however SWTOR is lacking fundamental features that were in WOW 7 years ago even. I do not understand why that is. It only undermines the game. Maybe having extracted $60 for the game and as many subscriptions as they can lay their hands on is enough success for them and they do not care.

[Blackweb]

I agree the release went OK although I started 2 days after and it may just be that the first two days may have given some players a bad impression.

 

It is your own opinion that quests in WOW are bad and in SWTOR are marvellous. Quests are quests, go kill 10 of these droids and 40 of these spice runners in SWTOR instead of 10 boars in WOW. If you played WOW first time it also has a story line, actually a multitude of story lines, it actually has books of story lines over SWTOR. However this being 7 years after launch you have seen it all and so it seems so ... old and beaten to you. Come back after 2-3 years and tell me how refreshing and entertaining the SWTOR quests are. Even now, at some level, 10, 15, 20 many players are just skimming over, especially the side quests. It is a nice feature but it is a single player game feature and cannot prop up an MMO. If SWTOR is ever an MMO.

 

SWTOR is a blatant copy of WOW and not of MMOs in general as you try to trivialise it. You can deny it all you like, and you can say that WOW stole this and that idea from EQ or whatever. Fact is mouse movement, camera, key bindings, talent system, abilities, even battle stances on my jedi consular. We are talking almost 1-to-1 here. If you do not see it then I can only say you are a fanboy.

 

Regarding added content, I will agree that people who complain about lack of content at endgame three weeks past release are a bit impatient. I suppose BIOWARE have given themselves a couple of months before needing to worry about end game content.

 

However if they had done their homework they would have seen how quickly new content gets consumed in WOW and should have prepared accordingly.

 

Modern MMOs keep "casualising" to appeal to the more casual players. Many restrictions and time sinks get removed all the time. WOW has been toned down since release, when millions of players whine how hard this and that is. To the point we now have the LFR system. I expect the next step will be when raid bosses commit suicide after 5 minutes.

 

Similarly SWTOR can only go one way: become easier and easier. This brings this problem: if it is so easy to level, what do you do at the top? Even if all the raids have now been made so simple, why will you stay? WoW still approaches this problem by offering "normal" and "heroic" versions of its end game dungeons but in my opinion this detracts from the game. I am not at all interested in wiping for 4 hours on a single raid boss when I have already downed that boss in LFR mode. It will be interesting to see how Bioare approach this, as they can easily judge from WOW's approach.

 

Currently however SWTOR is lacking fundamental features that were in WOW 7 years ago even. I do not understand why that is. It only undermines the game. Maybe having extracted $60 for the game and as many subscriptions as they can lay their hands on is enough success for them and they do not care.

 

Just two small comments to this.

 

This game is NOT in any way too easy to level in, I have tried 4 man heroic quests at around lvl 28-30ish where you needed to cc mobs, have a decent healer and tank to get anywhere, packs of like 7 elite mobs at once. Not saying you said it IS too easy, just saying that rumour needs to frickin DIE right since it's undisputably untrue.

 

Also I agree with heroic/normal verions not working to cater to morons and elites, honestly when playing wow (I didn't raid at all until wotlk expansion, except if I was lucky to join in, cuz of lack of time etc.) people were frickin stoked and cheering when finally downing a boss, watching him go down is part of the experience.

 

If you can just join a raidfinder and down him on easy mode before you go back to repeat the process on the "real" difficulty, half of the excitement on downing him is already taken from you, since you just did it yesterday on ez mode anyway.

 

Oh and wow sucks now, not even a cutscene after downing ragnaros? He just sinks into the lava and I'm supposed to be all excited? Really? Why did wotlk feel so much more epic?

 

Stopping here since I'm not making sense anymore

[Tenetke]

With a release this bad, they'll likely break the game further trying to "fix" things or make further excuses. The game will then go F2P.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

lol are you naturally that stupid, or do you have to work at it? Maybe you just choose to ignore the current sales figures out there right now. If so, please go read them.

 

Oh, remember WoW fanboys you get pandas soon, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL

[titanmike]

F2P is a sign of MMO failure. Bioware is preventing this by addressing a lot of problems.

 

Hence the game will not go F2P if Bioware continues to be this responsive and effective.

Even Warhammr is not free to play, if that game can survive this long no way TOR will go belly up.

[Blackardin]

With a release this bad, they'll likely break the game further trying to "fix" things or make further excuses. The game will then go F2P.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

???

 

Release this bad? Have you ever been through an MMO release? I've been through about 9. I'm clicking my heels on this one. Its been amazing.

[Blackardin]

Oh and wow sucks now, not even a cutscene after downing ragnaros? He just sinks into the lava and I'm supposed to be all excited? Really? Why did wotlk feel so much more epic?

 

Yep. After all the attempts with us officers trying to drag our casual guild through this hectic, unforgiving fight it was like.....um, did we finish? That's when I realized that I was burnt out on that game.

[Kabjat]

Uh, sure. Unfortunately for SWTOR, it offers nothing new besides more talking which is a DETRIMENT to a lot of people.

 

What you're seeing right now is the "honeymoon" stage of an MMO where everyone will valiant defend SWTOR and say "Just be patient!"

 

Well eventually, peoples patience will wear off, as a lot already have. Think about it, even Rift that offered dynamic, world changing events, couldn't hold even half of their subscribers DESPITE the fact that they release content almost every month

 

What makes you think SWTOR, which has nothing new to offer and whos content release will be slowed BECAUSE of voice over, will survive?

 

 

The 'talking' is a big part of my enjoyment. You seem to consider yourself an expert on the lifecycles of MMOs. These type of comments always amuse me.

 

What all you negative nancy's fail to take into consideration is the fact that this is STAR WARS...a beloved franchise that many people will stick with, regardless of all of the so called 'game breaking' issues plaguing it, which from what I understand is to be expected at the launch of a game of this scale. MOST players I would be willing to wager, aren't as critical and really are ok with waiting out the some of the issues.

 

Comparing Rift to Star Wars is like comparing apples to oranges. No matter how good rift is, I don't have any investment in that universe. With TOR, I do.

 

SW:TOR will survive because the it's shown itself to be a really fun game....and it's Star Wars. That right there is enough to keep people playing.

[Blackardin]

It is your own opinion that quests in WOW are bad and in SWTOR are marvellous. Quests are quests, go kill 10 of these droids and 40 of these spice runners in SWTOR instead of 10 boars in WOW.

 

This analysis is the only thing that is opinion, and in denial of the facts. Quests are quests, but you are looking at the wrong end of the horse there, chief. What makes it far superior is the dynamic immersion, the cut scenes, the voice overlays, the continuity and the story line.

 

Wow was the culmination of a bunch of random quests, totally unrelated, in set zones and not tuned to the individual player story or class. To argue that there is no difference is, well, sophomoric?

 

Most of your argument is unsupported or just blatantly incorrect. You provide no logical analysis to support your claim. You argue that games of the same genre are little more then carbon copies when the flaw in your biased argument is painfully obvious.

 

Either way, servers are up. Going to spend my time playing this awesome and fun game. ;p

Edited January 5, 2012 by Blackardin

[Jarlathe]

thanks

 

although are you sure that its what OP is talking about? I don't see "issues sliced in half", I see only promo text for new content...

 

I'm not even getting the thread that he linked, it goes right to the PTR forums.

 

As for patching, it's not patched until it's on the live servers. So no, Bioware hasn't really "addressed" anything yet. They are working towards (maybe) fixes, but I'm really not sure what ones as there isn't a comprehensive list of what they are working on.

 

I can say I'm working on the next, best car ever. It's going to have x y z features and cost x amount. That doesn't mean it's true. I can be sitting on the crapper "thinking" about it and that would constitute "working" on it in Bioware's eyes.

[Azzras]

Really? WoW is linear? The fact that most WoW zones are bigger than SWTORs planets are? The fact that you can FLY ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME (Without getting banned I might add)? THAT'S linear?

 

Tell me. How many times will you do Coruscant before wanting to smash your computer? It was about 3 times for me.

 

And guess what, you'll follow that SAME progression path in ALL of your characters. And ALL your characters will share 80% of the quests

 

Not to mention:

-No dungeon finder

-ACTUAL social hubs that don't cram every FP and Raid into ONE area

-Less bugs

-Better quests (Retaking cities, driving tanks, etc. In SWTOR you just talk to someone. Kill. Talk. Kill. Talk. Walk to another area to TALK SOME MORE)

-More classes

-Better UI

 

The list goes on. So I ask again, what does SWTOR offer that WoW doesn't?

ZOMG I LOVES WoW. They never rehash content (Ony, Rag, DM, Troll stuff, etc). They never only release a 6 and a half boss raid for an entire tier. They never say they will give content then don't (Abysal). Their classes are perfectly balanced. They will has pandas. They will has Pokemon. They put out new content sooo fast.

I LOVES THEM SO MUCH I SUB FOR A YEAR TO GET A CRAP FREE GAME (D3)!

 

/sarcasm

[Jarlathe]

What I would expect is that Games and developing/technology has moved on 7 years since that.

It is a bigger market;

a title 6 years in development with the reported budget of 130million and they've copy and pasted quite an amount of the universe, boring missions that just go on and on and on find x kill y, rehashed animations countless times, with a rake of bugs, absoloutly atrocious beta testing policy, BASIC MMO features and a game with LESS features than MOST free MMOs out there that have had less dev time and a 3x smaller budget.

 

Benchmark it against any title in the genre and it's lacking.

 

Content does come, that doesn't bother me. I've enjoyed PvP so far and Warzones are fine and I've also enjoyed some Open World PvP just to put that into context.

 

 

The bolded part is what I've been saying since day one. The content isn't the problem in this game. There is content. Sadly we get drowned out by the "Go back to WoW you heathen bastards" by the fanbots.

 

The simple problems (for me atleast, I won't pretend to speak for others) come down to.

 

* Single player game with a tacked on co-op mode. Except when I play a single player game, my choices actually can and do change the world. SWTOR really does fail in this. My choices don't matter at all, well unless I try and stay neutral, then I get nothing. Dark and Light sdie both get the same gear stat wise, it just kinda looks different.

 

* A GTN that is so bad, it's beyond belief. We all know it's bad. Then add in Bioware's stance on playing the AH or even having a bank alt and it makes the game even that much more bad. A MMO with a controlled (Communist) economy is not a game that I will find fun. I have fun playing the GTN. To hit credit cap would be my goal in this MMO, just as it has been in every MMO I've ever played.

 

Here's the section from the Rules of Conduct that I have an issue with. http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

 

"You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".

 

Kind of vague don't you think?

 

* A UI that was at least scalable and moveable.

 

* Macros? Even EQ1 had these at launch.

 

* A working LFG channel/tool. The one that was in WoW before the current tool would suffice.

 

I can go on and on but I'll stop here. The bugs (Small ones, game breakers are unacceptable IMHO) can be expected. But as consumers, we really should expect more on this part. Funny little obscure bugs I can understand. Major bugs that stop the game for your customers and effect 1000's of them should never, every make it past beta.

[darthdoll]

I didn't realize making more money counts as failure these days.

 

You say more money?? Proof?

 

Oh, you will link LOTRO article that shows their profit increased by 30%... But the real question is how much money they were making before hand with subs.

[zolthie]

SWTOR f2p by july 2012

[Baizak]

Uh, sure. Unfortunately for SWTOR, it offers nothing new besides more talking which is a DETRIMENT to a lot of people.

 

What you're seeing right now is the "honeymoon" stage of an MMO where everyone will valiant defend SWTOR and say "Just be patient!"

 

Well eventually, peoples patience will wear off, as a lot already have. Think about it, even Rift that offered dynamic, world changing events, couldn't hold even half of their subscribers DESPITE the fact that they release content almost every month

 

What makes you think SWTOR, which has nothing new to offer and whos content release will be slowed BECAUSE of voice over, will survive?

 

Yet you continue to play and frequent the forums everyday. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

[GellonSW]

You say more money?? Proof?

 

Oh, you will link LOTRO article that shows their profit increased by 30%... But the real question is how much money they were making before hand with subs.

 

 

LOTRO and DDO both turned out substantially more money than before. It's not rocket science. When you forego a monthly subscription model that is STATIC and opt for online market you are going to make more money. Players will spend either way. How do you think games like Runes of Magic have survived?

[Baizak]

LOTRO and DDO both turned out substantially more money than before. It's not rocket science. When you forego a monthly subscription model that is STATIC and opt for online market you are going to make more money. Players will spend either way. How do you think games like Runes of Magic have survived?

 

Yeah when I have no money in my pocket and somebody gives me a dollar. I just got substantially more money.

[darthdoll]

This HAS to be a troll. No one without post purchase rationalization would because SWTOR is less linear than WoW

 

Oh BTW, in SWTOR you still kill 10 rats, only difference is the rats are now droids and you have to listen to someones life story before you do it

 

-Free the rats (+10 lightside)

-Do Nothing

-Kill the rats (+10 Darkside)

 

INNOVATION

 

I see 3 choices to pick.

 

In WoW do you get any choice? Nope. Thought so.

[JMESUN]

shep never fails, never

[ackomo]

I honestly only read the first page but i had to LoL at those that thought F2P was a sign of failure.

 

Even money says ALL MMO's will be F2P in the next 10 years.

[OlBuzzard]

F2P is a sign of MMO failure. Bioware is preventing this by addressing a lot of problems.

 

Hence the game will not go F2P if Bioware continues to be this responsive and effective.

 

nailed it ! IMHO you are right on target ! I should be noted that you are also correct that if it goes F2P .. most will leave: My self at the top of that list. I left STO for that very reason (and I have a life time sub).

[Nighthawked]

I see 3 choices to pick.

 

In WoW do you get any choice? Nope. Thought so.

 

Exactly. You cannot really compare just quests. It is like saying all FPS games are the same because you "point and shoot at x".

 

What makes the quests in this game far far superior, is the storyline. I feel connected to my character playing this game. A couple of days ago, I got the "Tatooine bonus series" quest line. When it was introduced to me, I really felt like if I left, horrible thing would happen to those people that needed my help. I do not know if that makes any sense, but I hope it does.

 

The point here is: You feel connected to this game with such a rich storyline.

 

I played WoW, I have two max characters. I cannot tell you what the story is in that game. When I get a quest in that game, the minute the quest window comes up I click Accept. Then I read what I need to kill/do.

 

SO to me: WoW was just 85 levels of grinding, grinding, and grinding. Not reading any of the quest text.

 

With Star Wars, not only do you feel connected, but your decisions define what happens. Who doesnt like that?

 

This game is far better in giving you quests. If you do not want to watch the videos, there is an option in the settings to automatically skip cinematic.

[SoupyNuggs]

Really? WoW is linear? The fact that most WoW zones are bigger than SWTORs planets are? The fact that you can FLY ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME (Without getting banned I might add)? THAT'S linear?

 

Tell me. How many times will you do Coruscant before wanting to smash your computer? It was about 3 times for me.

 

And guess what, you'll follow that SAME progression path in ALL of your characters. And ALL your characters will share 80% of the quests

 

Not to mention:

-No dungeon finder

-ACTUAL social hubs that don't cram every FP and Raid into ONE area

-Less bugs

-Better quests (Retaking cities, driving tanks, etc. In SWTOR you just talk to someone. Kill. Talk. Kill. Talk. Walk to another area to TALK SOME MORE)

-More classes

-Better UI

 

The list goes on. So I ask again, what does SWTOR offer that WoW doesn't?

 

Looks like someones scared of the impact SWTOR is about to have on his precious community of WoW players. Every time I see someone make a features list comparing what wow has vs swtor, i lol.

 

"WoW has elves and SWTOR doesnt! WoW>SWTOR!"

[nocturnalgamer]

Really? WoW is linear? The fact that most WoW zones are bigger than SWTORs planets are? The fact that you can FLY ANYWHERE AT ANY TIME (Without getting banned I might add)? THAT'S linear?

 

Tell me. How many times will you do Coruscant before wanting to smash your computer? It was about 3 times for me.

 

And guess what, you'll follow that SAME progression path in ALL of your characters. And ALL your characters will share 80% of the quests

 

Not to mention:

-No dungeon finder

-ACTUAL social hubs that don't cram every FP and Raid into ONE area

-Less bugs

-Better quests (Retaking cities, driving tanks, etc. In SWTOR you just talk to someone. Kill. Talk. Kill. Talk. Walk to another area to TALK SOME MORE)

-More classes

-Better UI

 

 

 

The list goes on. So I ask again, what does SWTOR offer that WoW doesn't?

 

Wow really? Serious hater right there! Do everyone that enjoys this game and cancel your sub immediately! Go back to you precious WoW. I played WoW off and on for a number of years and I cant stand it. I only found it enjoyed when it first came out. So please leave aned never come back

[rylixav]

I didn't realize making more money counts as failure these days.

 

Making bad games counts as failure, and only bad games go F2P.