Hi, I'm A lvl 40 Vanguard, and I'm re-rolling.

[IlexGlabra]

The only point I can agree with is the Vanguard is primarily a tanking AC, that can do great DPS...but it's great DPS for a TANK.

 

That is factually incorrect and contrary to what Bioware has stated as its goal for the AC (and all AC's, really).

[ColdSunHoth]

People are thinking of this game in the same term as WoW or Everquest. Vanguard is NOT a tanking class only. This class has 3 trees. 2 DPS and a tanking tree. We can tank, and we can DPS. Personally, I would rate the three trees as so:

 

 

• Shield = Tanking
  
• Tactics = Utility and Decent DPS
  
• Assault = High DPS and some Utility
  

 

 

On the other hand, we don't have any healing spell and our DPS is designed to be done on the move at all times. If you are standing still while doing DPS as a Vanguard you are playing wrong. If you are above 10M away from your target trying to do DPS or tanking you are doing it wrong. A tactics PVP player will circle-strafe and kite, moving at all time and coming in for a quick stock or gut when needed. I was killing level 50s 1vs1 with ease at level 25 as tactics spec.

 

Commandos do most of their damage standing still and channelling. This simple fact is a good reason why they die more often than us, although a good commando is still hard to kill for any class. It doesn't matter if we are tank spec or not. Commandos have heavy armor and put out great DPS. Due to their turret-like nature, they have some decent crowd control, but not as good as say a Sage would.

 

A more accurate assessment of these classes would be: If you want to BE a tank, go Vanguard. If you want to be a healer, go Commando. If you want to be static with high damage DPS go Commando. If you want to run around and kite other players with good DPS go Vanguard.

[TheMove]

Im thinking about rerolling my level 20 vanguard. I feel they do more dps than other tanks. But I feel they are worse tanks than jugs and guardians by alot. Dmg is only betetr because of some AoEs. They have worse single target dmg than other tanks.

[Guurzak]

I feel they are worse tanks than jugs and guardians by alot. Dmg is only betetr because of some AoEs. They have worse single target dmg than other tanks.

 

How good a tank you are is not determined by your dps. The tank's job is to soak damage and hold aggro. We are definitely not inferior tanks.

[Elaithe]

Im thinking about rerolling my level 20 vanguard. I feel they do more dps than other tanks. But I feel they are worse tanks than jugs and guardians by alot. Dmg is only betetr because of some AoEs. They have worse single target dmg than other tanks.

 

I agree somewhat. I think that Vans will make the best off tanks. However, every tank has successful tanked end game content already sooooo...

[Tindahbawx]

Give them a week and they'll be making a thread claiming that they were lied to about Commando DPS class too.

[TheMove]

How good a tank you are is not determined by your dps. The tank's job is to soak damage and hold aggro. We are definitely not inferior tanks.

 

Ya Vanguards are. I deleted mine. Jugs, and guardians have so many more tools for tanking. Dmg means nothing. If I wanted dmg I would roll a dps class. As much as Bioware claims all classes can dps they don't know what they are doing or talking about in thier own game.

[TheMove]

I felt my Vanguard was in the crossroads of a tank and dps. Jugs/Guardians have more CC and 3 leaps. They have a ability that makes them take 40% less dmg while Vanguard has a 25% ability. And the jedis get like 30% more hp for 12 secs. Force choke, push and just better overall. And from what I read there getting buffed. So they are already betetr tanks and buffs are on there way.

[Cavadus]

I'm now lvl 40 as a Tactics Vanguard.

 

That's why your DPS sucks.

 

My Vanguard is DPS but I run with a fully pimped out Ion Cell. The build is awesome and I easily top damage charts in WZs. I can lay down far more sustained damage than a Commando can and I still have excellent burst capabilities.

 

Plus the skill that grants you extra ammo from CC effects and the skill that cleanses all movement impairing effects when you activate reflexive shield are gold.

 

Also, make sure you pimp out High Impact Bolt as much as you can. My HIB is a monster and I get a lot of free HIBs from a skill in Assault Specialist.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Cavadus

[grandmasterub]

The only problem with vanguards is the shield tree is vastly superior in its design to both the other trees.

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

If you knew you wanted to only dps, why didn't you go Gunnery Commando?

 

^^

 

Regardless of what "others told you", the AC make-up, style and description are blatantly evident for everyone that took the time to read prior to making their character.

 

No one lied to you. Quit being dramatic.

Edited January 5, 2012 by IIII-IIII-IIII

[Guurzak]

I felt my Vanguard was in the crossroads of a tank and dps. Jugs/Guardians have more CC and 3 leaps. They have a ability that makes them take 40% less dmg while Vanguard has a 25% ability. And the jedis get like 30% more hp for 12 secs. Force choke, push and just better overall. And from what I read there getting buffed. So they are already betetr tanks and buffs are on there way.

 

People who speak in complete sentences disagree with you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129042

[Elaithe]

People who speak in complete sentences disagree with you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129042

 

+1 sir, +1

[ururururu]

Im thinking about rerolling my level 20 vanguard. I feel they do more dps than other tanks. But I feel they are worse tanks than jugs and guardians by alot. Dmg is only betetr because of some AoEs. They have worse single target dmg than other tanks.

 

I have a jugg (44) and vanguard and I think you're crazy. See you in 3 weeks when you reroll back to vanguard or powertech.

 

Edit : but I really enjoy the juggernaut too.. definitely a late bloomer but fun class! Both classes are fun IMO.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ururururu

[Fafryd]

I have a 43 VG and a 35 Commando. The Commando has always felt like significantly more DPS. I don't see it when PVPing that much though, particularly if I take the time out from close range on the VG to pop Mortar Volley a few times to pad the damage count.

 

I find it hard to reconcile between literally continuous Grav Rounds doing >2k each and no ammo problems - literally easy mode big DPS - and the piano complexity of the VG getting out DPS at close range across shock strike, pulse and HIB. I just cant see how the DOT effect of the VG can make up the raw hitting power of the Commando.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Fafryd

[kylrapture]

Im sick and tired of people "claiming" that Commando "should" have higher dps then Vanguard! This is a misconception/false statement!

 

Ill say this again one last time...

 

1.

 

Bioware has made it totally clear that they want ALL dps speccs do the same amount of damage, this is their ultimate goal and is what they are striving for (then ofc different speccs will fare more or less good depending on the situation and the mechanics of the boss/situation)!

 

2.

 

Commando: ONE HEALING TREE and TWO DPS TREES

 

Vanguard: ONE TANKING TREE and TWO DPS TREES

 

What about the above is it that you cant get through your head(s)? What exactly is it that makes you belive a Vanguards "should" do worse DPS?

 

 

 

 

The difference between the two is in their strenghts and weaknesses as I see it.

 

Vanguard has greater mobility wich is a strenght but also need to be in melee/short range to maximise their dps wich is a weakness as you will have to move more (potential loss in dps) if it is a mobile fight AND you will put more stress on the healers as you will generally take more aoe damage then a ranged class will.

 

Commando are a ranged class wich mean they dont have to move around as much in mobile fights wich is a strenght and can more easily avoid incoming aoe damage putting less stress on the healers wich is ofc also a strenght. The weakness of Commando is that they dont have the great mobility of a Vanguard.

 

Point is they both have their strenghts and weaknesses and they play totally different. But there is absolutely no reason to why the Commande "should" do more dps then the Vanguard! Bioware agrees on this whatever class it is ;P

 

 

Again: Bioware has stated that their ultimate goal is that ALL dps speccs do equally much damage!

 

I'm going to BATTER anyone who even tried to pigeonhole any AC with this great post.

This game is NOT WOW and there ARE NOT TANKING/DPS/HEAL specific classes!!!!

 

rarrrghh! Repeat after me, this game is not wow, this game is not wow.....

[SpotlessMind]

Vanguard in PvP aren't even tanks. They die just as fast, because most of the damage in PvP are either Force, Elemental or Internal. Vanguard really don't have much all out mitigation. I been PvPing from lv 10 - 49 and I go down almost as quickly as any other class, because everybody has approximately the same amount of Hp.

 

Vanguard's damage isn't great. A good Vanguard can get about 300k damage once every couple of games, but that isn't great damage. Once you have played other classes like Scoundrels for one, you'll see how doing 300k-600k every game is consider great damage.

 

In short, Vanguards in PvP aren't great tanks and they do okay damage. Vanguards can tank in PvE well, but not in PvP and that is because of the way BW designed the game. They don't want any tanking in PvP. They clearly want Vanguard to be part tank and part damage look at the shield skill tree. It half damage and half defense.

[Bbizzle]

Because I thought Vanguard would be just as good, just like everyone telling me it would.

 

Act like you've played an mmo before. Don't let marketing speak fool you next time.

[pyrobot]

You're playing tactics, easily the most boring class spec of all. If you don't like Vanguard, you don't like Vanguard, all there is to it. But if you don't tank or pvp, well, it's whatever, spend your sub fees however you want.

[Kozor]

You're playing tactics, easily the most boring class spec of all. If you don't like Vanguard, you don't like Vanguard, all there is to it. But if you don't tank or pvp, well, it's whatever, spend your sub fees however you want.

 

How is Tactics boring? It sucks compared to Assault, that's true but what's boring about it? It's actually much more engaging than Assault, nothing boring about it.

 

Assault is just Ion Pulse and Stockstrike spam until you proc HIB. Now that's what I call boring, especially in PvE.

[Ishkur]

Vanguard in PvP aren't even tanks. They die just as fast, because most of the damage in PvP are either Force, Elemental or Internal. Vanguard really don't have much all out mitigation. I been PvPing from lv 10 - 49 and I go down almost as quickly as any other class, because everybody has approximately the same amount of Hp.

 

Vanguard's damage isn't great. A good Vanguard can get about 300k damage once every couple of games, but that isn't great damage. Once you have played other classes like Scoundrels for one, you'll see how doing 300k-600k every game is consider great damage.

 

In short, Vanguards in PvP aren't great tanks and they do okay damage. Vanguards can tank in PvE well, but not in PvP and that is because of the way BW designed the game. They don't want any tanking in PvP. They clearly want Vanguard to be part tank and part damage look at the shield skill tree. It half damage and half defense.

 

You sir have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Vanguards aren't great tanks? Tell this to the Huttball enemy team that tries to kill me walking to the goal line. Normaly dying like once in 10 games or so if everything goes bad.

 

Vangaurds damage isn't great? I do ~250 to 300k EVERY game with defensive gear and shield spec. I know you wrote that this is "ok" damage, but check the casual pvp player's stats. I just tried out some Assault stuff and hit 480k damage in the first game, still with defense gear (supercommando set) on.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Ishkur