Skepi Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Star Wars Galaxies and EVE (both great and different styles of PvP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashorian Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Dragonrealms!! oh wait, not muds, mmos :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalaroq Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 UO up to and through T2A Skill-based game and player-skill-based PvP at its finest. Never experienced such perfect teamwork since. You were NEVER safe. Don't want to PvP? Group up. Otherwise, stamp "victim" on your forehead, because you're about to lose everything you have on you. Renaissance and on is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewayshemoves Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Depends. If we're talking solely about controls, I think it would be WoW. Though, SWTOR isn't near as clunky as some I've played, it still doesn't feel as smooth in places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Utlima Online is still the only pvp that ever mattered. You loot what you kill. You could war anyone, kill anyone and lose everything. "Support classes" that allowed stupid, slow players to use half their class abilities didn't exist. To be honest? Everything since UO has been pvp light. Just a gear grind with stacking of the best comp/specs. In this game it happens to be healers/tanks. Will I still play it? Yes cus their is nothing else to play and I don't have to deal with aimbots/speedhacks near as much in a game where people have to level and risk losing their crap if they cheat. If they released a new UO pre uor with updated graphics I would play it in a second. Problem? The crying on this board would be nowhere close to the crying on that game. The first time someone died and lose their crap they would quit. The game couldn't make money, because all these kids were raised by Barney. When in doubt blame Barney. Stupid dinosaur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinij Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Shadowbane before expansions rolled out, followed by Ultime Online T2A-era (precast and all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBanjax Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Without question, Dark Age of Camelot. I'm looking forward to what Pitch Black Games is doing with the SWTOR engine and creating Dominus; a scifi like version of DAOC. Sometime out this year, keeping my fingers crossed it's a good one. Edited January 4, 2012 by LordBanjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetorept Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 EVE Online is the ultimate pvp experience because you have real penalties for defeat and basically you can be attacked anywhere. Everything else is staged and instanced and loaded, no matter how much you spin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinij Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 "Support classes" that allowed stupid, slow players to use half their class abilities didn't exist. By definition, half the people out there are below average. You can't create a system that doesn't allow "stupid, slow players" to participate. I played UO, I loved every minute of it, but for your typical self-important, averse to losing, unable to adapt North American gamer it was hell on wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalaroq Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Utlima Online is still the only pvp that ever mattered. You loot what you kill. You could war anyone, kill anyone and lose everything. "Support classes" that allowed stupid, slow players to use half their class abilities didn't exist. To be honest? Everything since UO has been pvp light. Just a gear grind with stacking of the best comp/specs. In this game it happens to be healers/tanks. Will I still play it? Yes cus their is nothing else to play and I don't have to deal with aimbots/speedhacks near as much in a game where people have to level and risk losing their crap if they cheat. If they released a new UO pre uor with updated graphics I would play it in a second. Problem? The crying on this board would be nowhere close to the crying on that game. The first time someone died and lose their crap they would quit. The game couldn't make money, because all these kids were raised by Barney. When in doubt blame Barney. Stupid dinosaur. ^This. Skill was everything. Gear was nothing. Quite literally. Anyone could attack anyone and no one was safe. Two equally skilled players could fight forever, but the PvP wasn't forgiving. One slip up and you were dead in seconds, even 1v1 (which happened even for those who were skilled). And more than anything, the game was balanced. Edited January 4, 2012 by Dalaroq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 By definition, half the people out there are below average. You can't create a system that doesn't allow "stupid, slow players" to participate. I played UO, I loved every minute of it, but for your typical self-important, averse to losing, unable to adapt North American gamer it was hell on wheels. Yup and add to all that? The community was 1000 times better. Everyone knew everyone on Chesepeake. Here Rich Vogel talks about UO. He is a Bioware guy now. Talks about the skill cap, skill differential, freedom. It is still the only truly sandbox game. Don't get me wrong. I like SWTOR. It is very good for being all on rails and better then WoW which is all you can really ask for when the consumers are the way they are on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am a proponent of keeping everything in a PVP game as organic as possible. Shooting catapults at a tree to "win" a war is not an organic experience. Fighting an enemy for control of a city for a week until one side reluctantly withdraws because they for one reason or another cannot continue to fight as an organic encounter with a comprehensive winner and loser. AC had that. DF had it in the chaos cities. UO had it. DAOC did not have it. SB had it on a limited basis. I suppose it's a matter of opinion -- what you're describing is pretty much what the relic control was about in DAOC. The individual keeps would flip throughout the day, but the overall tug of war over the course of weeks and months was based on relic control ... and various realms on various servers did give up that fight (and then they went and did other PvP stuff like take home keeps in enemy zones, since they no longer had an investment to defend their own realm). I think that at the end of the day, good gameplay has to sacrifice/restrict some of the "organic" aspect of the PvP. Full item loss for example -- while on one side it's entertaining (and I did have fun with it in UO), it's pretty tedious in the long run. I remember one of my core criticisms of Shadowbane was that the game centered on farming gold in order to replace gear (naturally, a concept of character builds using no gear evolved, but that's just stupid in concept). Revolving around replacing gear (SB) is the same as revolving around new tiers of gear (WoW) -- in both games you have to farm gear for PvP. So yes, Shadowbane was like WoW PvP, except in SB you could burn their city forrealz, and you had many "factions". In any case, point is that I don't consider a system like DAOC's to be "less" on the PvP end. I consider it "less" on the hardcore end. I would freely label Shadowbane as "hardcore PvP", but the term "lite" carries the connotation of inferior or casual, which I would not apply to DAOC. I consider DAOC "normal", SB et al "hardcore", and Warzone/Warfront/Battlegrounds/WOWLOL "lite". A proper PvP game shouldn't have an end game in a PvE sense. Taking a keep for a relic is PvE with PvP interference. I disagree: it depends on the implementation -- specifically the motivation and rewards. The keeps in DAOC for example were basically containers / structures to enable PvP to happen. They had little direct value on a day to day basis. In general, no one REALLY cared about taking a keep. They wanted the keep because it was an aggro magnet for the enemy realm to instigate PvP. The primary motivation, the bottom line was to KILL PLAYERS, COLLECT RP. The system was structured so that the PvE was a superfluous excuse to PvP all day, every day. Warhammer is a good counter-example. The value of keeps changed during various phases of the game, but for most of it, the motivation was completely different: you took keeps because they gave good RP for the capture. Or you took them to flip the zone. You took the zone to get gold bags, or to get access to the city to get gold bags. The primary motivation here ... is to flip zones, collect bags. Not to kill players. E.g., Mythic was sliding into the gimmicky token-gear-reward system that de-emphasizes player versus player and rides too hard on player versus token. End game should be wars fought between rivals over political disputes related to server resource control/management or epeen. Totally agree, and that was what DAOC was -- guilds claimed keeps, and it wasn't just ******** "whose flag is on the keep". It was more serious mode "how long have we held the keep", and more. Bottom line in DAOC was that there was only 1 'endgame' resource: relics (and then Darkness Falls probably counts as some interim resource control). I suppose the main difference is that the teams are fixed. I led a 25 man guild and led a 60 man alliance that disbanded the Goonsquads 3k man guild and 6k man alliance in Darkfall and made them quit the game in droves. I'd say that is better than 2v2 3v3 or 5v5 NAMPLA (North American Man Pillar Love Association) gameplay. Respect. You seem there here (in this forum) complaining that there is no reason to do world PvP. You see them here treating warzone (lol) as the end all be all of PvP (because, you know...that's where the gear comes from). WoW rewarded individual play time in PvP with individual rewards and completely decoupled PvP from any meaningful faction benefits. That what that generation has gotten used to, and that colors their opinion. Yeah actually I had a discussion with a guildie the other day -- he has close to a full set of Champ gear and does his dailies and he's like "well, I got most of my gear, I think I'll see how Rift raiding goes in the next few weeks, got nothing left to grind for PvP in SWTOR even though it's kind of fun. Raid lockout is up until Tuesday and ...". I'm like "Dude, grind your *********** name". Him: "But I have my legacy title ...". Me: "No, your NAME. Who you *********** are. Make the scrubby piece of ***** @post, focus fire you because of your name. That's what you should be 'grinding'." He never played DAOC . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infuzor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 1 DAoC 2 Warhammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillbro Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Eve Online The good old days. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=39933 Edited January 4, 2012 by chillbro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrynn Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Yep. Pre-nerf.. and with shadow zerkers running around as well. I seriously was afraid to run alone in frontiers . It's kind of ironic. I was a Celt Ranger who specced Blades instead of the Pierce that so many Hibs swore by, for the sole purpose of hunting SBs (armor resists bonuses/penalties really screwed a lot of Hib stealthers since Pierce was a natural with all the high dex races). I think I have more hours logged in the Mid frontier than in the Hib frontier. I never worried about LA, and could see that Double Frost coming a mile off anyway. A well specced/played Ranger could chew through SBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool_whip Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) 1. UO - Was my favorite by far. Wasted so many years of my life on OSI then other player run shards 2. Darkfall - Still play kinda. Can't wait for 2.0. Only problem is I am terible. 3. Shadowbane - Which may actually be comming back thx to a player made emulator about to go into closed beta. Edited January 4, 2012 by Cool_whip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Never played DAoC Warhammer was the best Ive played between them fixing the bugs, like morales not firing, up until SC Weapons. Played a lot of WoW never liked the PvP. Rift was pretty fun at first, but got to be pretty boring. They also made radical changes too often. I liked Warhammer by far the most out of any PvP Ive played. I like their CC immunity system more than any other combat system ive tried. People still used to complain about CC though. I wish they would have set up some type of end game PvP group match finder, but I guess that might have taken away from the RvR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZIronman Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 SWG pre-cu by far. I loved it so much I still play the emulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yozbick Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) 1) DAOC Best PVP ever. Nothing else has ever given the thrill of holding a castle with 16 guys against 120 enemies, then walking out among their corpses after you've beaten them all and they refuse to send another wave against you. No other PVP comes close. For non-PVP MMOs.... 2) WOW, I guess I played it a long time. Some of the high end raiding was good during the early days. I had good times being among the first on our server to defeat BWL. After that, it kind of jumped the shark for me though. 3) RIFT Great class system. Didn't play it as long as I should have. 4) LOTRO Almost lived up to the promise of playing in Middle Earth. The classes were horrible. The graphics are old. But it was still just fun to "be there." If a developer could redo LOTRO with RIFT's classes, DAOC's PVP and SWTOR's graphics I would be in absolute heaven. (I don't have the stomach or the time for WOW raiding anymore.) Edited January 4, 2012 by Yozbick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Zajo- Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 1. EVE Online - I can't even begin to tell you why without writing a novel. 2. Warhammer - 1.5 years I paid for that game. Everything I did was PvP. Shammy love <3 3. Just have to add Counter Strike - Simple, working pvp and the game is still going strong since release 1999. My dream is for mmo's to stop being commercial - I miss the quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalFunkShun Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 *cough* you mean echoic on "Iseult" server right? Highest RR (skald) in the game for a while? I played hib on that server and did a happy dance everytime I got her kill spam, it was not an easy group to take out, she rolled with Midgards elite usually. On a side note I really enjoyed how kill spam lit up your screen if you were anywhere near a battle The thing is, pvp wasnt a grind though. In DAOC it was nigh impossible to max out your realm rank so it wasnt the objective anymore, it was to defend the realm and score kill spam. Then when a rank came around it was just icing on the cake. You really only needed RR5 to get your main abilities, though a fully maxed out RR12 was pretty strong. Ahhh Iseult, yep. Forgot which server it was >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox_McCloud Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You know, I don't want to see another MMO advertise PvP without having three factions. I am sick of this 2 faction nonsense that WoW popularized and SWToR seems to have picked up on. 3 factions in RvR is so vastly better of an experience that the companies should all know better by now. The problem is that WoW was so successful all the companies want PvE games like WoW. Make everything like WoW so we can hopefully get some of that cash, thats all they are thinking about, which is not suprising i guess. My hope is that Guild Wars 2 can bring us some DAoC style epic RvR. If not, then I don't have any hope left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbat Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 EVE online. Words can't even begin to describe how much fun I had PvPing in EVE. "Only fly what you can afford to replace". Losses in that game hurt, lost ship, cargo, implants (or is it boosters? Can't remember atm) and so forth. Not like in all the other MMO's I've played where you respawn after like 15 seconds without a scratch. WoW was kinda fun back when I played it during vanilla. Tarren Mill vs Southshore was a blast. havent played since the launch of TBC so I have no idea about arenas and all, but I do have some great memories of those days. Warhammer was ok I guess. Sucks now though, unless you play endless trial in t1, still so much fun. TOR, meh, generic warzones and stupid as **** rewardsystem at 50. I mean come on, play the lottery and hope that the RNG gods are on your side? A guildmate dinged about three days ago, and he got everything apart from implants and the weapon I think, while I got to max yesterday and only got comms from the gear bags (15 or so).Oh, and remove warzones, work out a better rewardsystem, and make world pvp worthwile. And while you're at it, make a pvp planet. Yes, a whole planet for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedrynn Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 You know, I don't want to see another MMO advertise PvP without having three factions. I am sick of this 2 faction nonsense that WoW popularized and SWToR seems to have picked up on. 3 factions in RvR is so vastly better of an experience that the companies should all know better by now. The problem is that WoW was so successful all the companies want PvE games like WoW. Make everything like WoW so we can hopefully get some of that cash, thats all they are thinking about, which is not suprising i guess. My hope is that Guild Wars 2 can bring us some DAoC style epic RvR. If not, then I don't have any hope left. Well then, here is some hope for you! Garrett Fuller: The Return of Three Faction PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vant Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 a lot of mention about daoc... But no one mentions how your actual time that you spent pvping had non-gear rewards??? By that i mean the realm ranks. R1l1-r11. Man, that was a grind unheard of. I still remember the name on merlin (midgard side) of echoic. That poor guild would look for 8v8's all the time, but as soon as the zerg followed them, they were screwed, lol. Remember when you first got to break mez with the rr talent??? Oh man, it was so nice to cc break that. Group mez??? How about increasing your stats through pvp? In essence, it rewarded those who pvp'ed more properly, but if you stuck to zergs, you could still have fun without having to do 8v8's. Most well-done pvp system to date. So sad they will never make a daoc 2. I followed stories of it for about 5 years after i quit playing to see if it would ever come back. Played a skald, runemaster, spiritmaster, warlock (i think?). I miss the days. And hello to all my fellow ac'ers. Yes i was a carebear and went frostfell (as mal funk shun, duh) at first, but eventually went to darktide. The pvp in that game was so twitch combat... I'll never forget one of my most epic battles on there. I went to unflag pvp and a friend of mine, harry houdini, came with. We were jumped by 6 people off the bat. This happened at 1pm est. No deaths, a couple comp refills, and no chance to loot resulted in an epic 8 hour battle. Couldn't believe it when i looked at the clock and it was 9pm by the time they finally left. I know on dt there were much more epic battles, but it's all perspective, really old school subway battles baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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