What Determines SWTOR's Failure?

[Blackwater]

Yes, I really don't mudsling very often but you are making really stupid "points". Have you ever played Guild Wars 2? I have played 3 demonstrations of it over the past year; and I will tell you as of the last time I played it; it was TERRIBLE. The voice acting is severely limited to "personal" story sequences that are very brief and not very cinematic, several people asked them if they planned on actually making the entire game voiced over and cinematic as they claimed to; the developers that were there said no, it is how it was intended to be.

 

The personal story is mostly dictated via character creation, with player choice truly coming into play later on and only seems to be things like choosing sides between the Queen and her enemy, and things like that which set up for "faction" content at the "end" of the game.

 

BioWare on the other hand took the time to develop a fully engaging set of stories, independent of each other both in your personal class storyline, the regular world missions, and then flashpoints. The fact you say that flashpoints and operations have nothing to do with the lore or storylines of the game shows how little you really know about SW:TOR so far. They're all connected to what you're doing in the game on some level; when you obtain the missions for flashpoints it's typically after a certain point on a planet's storyline for your faction. I will agree that they could of done a better job with the UI and accessibility/QoL mechanics such as having a LFG tool, making the UI more customizable even if it was minor things such as scaling and arrangement. Some of the bugs are ridiculous, yeah I get all of that but at the end of the day they created what is easily the best MMORPG, and first REAL mmoRPG to date (notice my emphesis on the RPG). They created exactly what they said they would, and possibly a little more; you bought into it as did the rest of us and just because you may not necessarily like what they created is no good reason to go and try to demonize them and spread fiction as if it were proven fact, to try and put a damper on other peoples opinions of the game.

 

Yes, there are things that need to be addressed quickly, No I do not love everything about the game; but I can give constructive criticism without trolling the overall positive reception of the game like a few people seem to do repeatedly on here.

You wrote half a novel to tell me how great SWTORs stories are.

 

Awesome, cool, sweet, great. Anything else you want to waste my time with?

[BobTheTeepo]

no crafting depth

Biochem/Cybertech dominate, that is true, but that is being fixed, so I see plenty of depth.

 

no "ownership" feeling of your character

That's very subjective, and I'd wager MOST people disagree with you.

 

ability delay

Ya, hope they fix it soon.

 

unbalanced mirror classes

Very slight differences between the mirrors, but the classes themselves are more balanced than MOST polished MMOs.

 

zero customer support

Hmm, that's odd, I must have imagined the 2 separate occasions I've conversed with their CS to fix some issues I was having.

 

doesnt matter what you reply in a dialog

LOL?

 

to many loadscreens

Three loading screens per planet (sometimes two) too much?

 

terrible UI

Ya.

 

skills/speeders/respecc costs a fortune

Necessary to keep inflation down.

 

very long traveltime

\

I like large worlds, very subjective.

 

same stupid spaceport on all planets (almost)

It wouldn't make much sense if the republic constructed every spaceport differently would it? Uniform construction just makes more sense and saves them time.

 

no level 50 space combat (this is star wars isnt it?)

Yes, they have big plans for the future they say. But there is level 50 space combat.

 

poor map writting (spend more time finding the 5 meter wide entrance to the zone then doing the quest)

Disagree.

 

no guild options (even tho the BW PR machine said before release this was their top priority)

Ya.

 

way to many bugs to be released

You've not seen many MMO launches have you?

 

lack of player vendors around the world

Markets you mean? This is true but it's hardly bad or even wrong. It's perhaps convenient, that's about it.

 

GTN is not userfriendly at all

Ya.

 

 

you can pick some of these and say "its been out a month"

but they have been designing this game for years, they have looked at other MMO`s and seen what failed, they spent a record amount of money... so the list should be this long, even after 1 month of release.

 

Eh, better than most MMO launches but could be better. I'm optimistic about the future but that's just me.

[Jesira]

You wrote half a novel to tell me how great SWTORs stories are.

 

Awesome, cool, sweet, great. Anything else you want to waste my time with?

 

What exactly were you hoping to get out of this game if you didn't want story in addition to the typical MMO staples? Do you think being obnoxious is going to make you sound clever when you have nothing to back up any of your claims? If you don't like the game, don't subscribe to it. Problem solved, have a good evening.

[WLpride]

I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure?

 

1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure!

 

The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions

 

2. The game will fail because tons of people are unsubscribing and SWTOR will just die from lack of players!

 

The fact is not every game is WoW, every game doesn't need 11 million players to stay alive. There are plenty of MMOs that not only survive but thrive with only a few hundred thousand players and are in no danger of being shut down. Star Wars Galaxies lasted over 8 years with a rather small player base compared to WoW. Even if 90% of all the current SWTOR players quit it still would not die. If you judge the success or failure of a MMO on whether it knocks WoW off the MMO mountain then every MMO is a failure in your eyes.

 

3. SWTOR is failing so bad it will be Free To Play in "X" weeks/months!

 

The fact is a game going Free To Play doesn't constitute a failure. In fact most MMOs that switch from a subscription based business model to a Free to Play + Microtransactions business model see a surge in their player base. Examples being LOTRO and DC Universe Online, which is a perfect example as it had a great release then lost most of it's subscribers in the first few months then late last year they went free to play + microtransactions and then gained over 1 million new players. Farmville works on a free to play + microtransactions model and has a player base of over 110 million players with an average 32 million players playing online at any given moment. Zynga makes over $500 million a year just from Farmville. A game being or becoming free to play hardly constitutes a failure in fact it is probably just the opposite.

 

So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not.

Very good question.

 

IMO, I would say that "failure" would be that after 1 year

a) majority of customers are happy that new content is coming/implemented

b) that after major patches (I assume at least 1 major content patch a year) subscription base average does not continue to decline.

 

These 2 points are taken into consideration that the main market volume will be achieved with by delivery of (either subscription continued prices OR pricest to cover cost of content patch (eg. expansion price tag)) content patches. If these things are met, the price of development should not need to shrink to the point that new content can no longer be added, which would be considered "failure".

 

Player subscriptions are sure to take a hit after January 20th, after all the 1st month will be officially over. It would be 'Industry Standard' to lose 20-30%, it would be a miracle if they did not. If they do continue around 1 million subscribers SW:TOR would be a "Very Profitable" project by Bioware own description. If not, and we have seen enough complaints and average review, nearly all players are still enjoying the process (as I), it's not every dream of game that I imagined but it's still very good and I know EA will deliver with bug fixes and features - that is fact. That alone will guarantee that wary players will be interested to come back if they've left - after all - even paying for a few months is a financial success. Success of other games, like RIFT, for example were deemed 'personal successes' by it's makers. Rift is not a phenomenal success however, makers of Rift are not deluded, and realized that even modest success is good. They continue to follow a philosophy of a quality project that while not to everyone's maturity or scope, is still capable of it's own success. That fact that Trion is still delivering new stuff is proof, nuff said.

 

Right now is the Worst Time

 

Right now is the worst time for BioWare in reality of the entire project, and they know it. The game is a mere skeleton of what it may potentially become. This all depends on how 'average' it's success is, and also how Bioware intends to handle the whole thing. PvP is a major concern, FACT: nearly half of all players are on dedicated PvP servers, will most of these servers dry up quickly? It's not entirely how dedicated BioWare is to PvP gaming yet. There are lot's, and it also looks like there is a huge amount of PvP gamers looking for a PvP PHENOMENON game! It's pretty much looking like SW:TOR is not a true and true PvP game by now - DOH. There a lots of DELUDED players who do know this, yet continue to play... I'm sure SW:TOR will deliver something for PvP players, after all the IP is ripe with fanatics already, I'm sure they will devour what ever is made in most cases. I do not thnk BioWare will shun PvP that much, they already appear to have some very talented people working on most of the BIG issues right now. We know already what is coming, I think that if those majority of players would leave they would likely of left already. I think many have. There a many bugs and features missing and the first few patches are going to be big ones. SW:TOR has big rebound potential, delivering the demands of the players will make a good impression, if things (gamewise) continue to improve so will SWTOR reputation. But the game is not completely unplayable, again the majority of forum posters and people in-game appear to like what they are doing.

 

I would say it's still to early to tell. We have big patches coming and still a very good at least 8 out of 10 people from what I see enjoying the game. I think that is very good sign for the game just out of launch, we know the experience is new and endgame is only sketched in at this point. The future looks positive for the time being, BioWare will need another "head check" in 2-3 months time. But I also have the theory that SW fans will buy literally ANYTHING from now on out, so long as BioWare delivers a properly marketed and cultivated expansion (yearly) - which they have hinted they would be doing.

 

~you can continue the themepark~

Edited January 15, 2012 by WLpride

[Blackwater]

What exactly were you hoping to get out of this game if you didn't want story in addition to the typical MMO staples?

 

The actual MMO staples would be nice, BUT Bioware forgot those to

 

You REALLY think story is going to carry this game for 10 years? Is that what you REALLYYY think? I doubt you actually think that, I really doubt it.

[Miffy]

We'll know if the game has failed if they make it F2P.

[Derfmiolleh]

The negative whiners are a normal part of any online community. No matter what we will see the same kinds of posts with the same arguments from the same people. I just play this wonderful game and enjoy it, marketing and advertising will bring us a steady flow of new players, The game itself will keep them.

[BobTheTeepo]

So 2 out of the 21 planets aren't linear? Sorry, that's not gonna cut it especially when you have no reason to revisit them after you hit 50.

 

And i know about Revan, but guess what:

 

YOU KILL HIM IN A 4 MAN FLASH POINT. Unless you're on the Republic of course than you don't get to participate

 

 

And quit with these excuses.

 

Yeah they laid the FOUNDATION, unfortunately they're competing in a housing market, not a foundation market.

 

Oh and Bioware Austin IS NOT new to MMOs, they have A LOT of MMO vets from Warhammer and SWG.

 

2 failed MMOs, go figure

 

No, if you'd played that far you'd know Corellia is VERY linear. I'm saying that they're diverse. Hoth, Tatooine, Voss (for the most part) and Alderaan (on a lot of parts) are all very open. Whereas Corellia, Belsavis, and Nar Shadaa are very closed. It balances out -- not every planet should be open and not every planet should be closed.

 

GUESS WHAT, YOU INCLUDED FLASHPOINTS !!! If you don't want them brought up, do not bring them up man XD. Also, chill.

 

Those aren't excuses as I don't excuse anything. I explain that the groundwork is laid, this is pretty much as bad as TOR will ever be, it will almost certainly ONLY go uphill from here. You and I both know that most people who unsub will be back and check on the progress in around six months or so, the only difference is I believe that it will be in MUCH better shape. So I think in the end this game will be a success, I'm a fanboy because of it right?

 

Fair point.

 

I don't recall mentioning 2 MMOs. I brought up how Galaxies didn't die or go F2P for a VERY long time. So I do not think this game will die any time soon, and I don't think it will fail for quite a long time.

Edited January 15, 2012 by BobTheTeepo

[marshalleck]

5 more days and we'll be rid of persons like the OP.

 

>smugly rejoicing over the game losing subscriptions

 

I bet Bioware aren't as thrilled as you are.

[BobTheTeepo]

>smugly rejoicing over the game losing subscriptions

 

I bet Bioware aren't as thrilled as you are.

 

The oddest part about the guy you quoted, is that the OP was saying all this in support of the game O.o.

[marshalleck]

The oddest part about the guy you quoted, is that the OP was saying all this in support of the game O.o.

 

All the more reason listening to fanboys is disastrous. They're utterly confused.

Edited January 15, 2012 by marshalleck

[WLpride]

We'll know if the game has failed if they make it F2P.

If they believe they made a product to keep a person busy past 3-4 months, then they've deluded themselves.

 

Somesort of hybrid solution should be encouraged and not shuned from their "AAA" quality self-label. It's a MMO or whatever, they can get over it already. By their own definiton, they've failed when they have to consider extra payment options. THey don't want to admit that they should charge extra for anything.

 

To implement a payment scheme that becomes cheaper after time because really, after 3-4 months there is nothing left to ask of that person - it should be free.

Edited January 15, 2012 by WLpride

[davidpop]

You're right all the way, but peoples definition of failure and dead game is "I dont play that game".

[WLpride]

You're right all the way, but peoples definition of failure and dead game is "I dont play that game".

Indeed, SW:TOR is the favorite MMO to hate.

[Bregah]

I don't know if SWTOR is going to be a "failure".

 

I do know that, as an MMO, it's lacking so many features that I will unsubscribe once I've played through the class quests I want to play through (2 or 3 more).

 

I figure that will take me probably 1 month paid to do.

 

Beyond that, so many things are wrong with this as an "MMO", but I'm not really treating it as an MMO.

 

In my own eyes, it's a decent single player experience for an online game, and a major plus is that it has lightsabers. But it's also an extremely subpar MMO. I don't know who was in charge of many decisions about systems in this game, but they really should consider another line of work.

[darthdoll]

I don't know if SWTOR is going to be a "failure".

 

I do know that, as an MMO, it's lacking so many features that I will unsubscribe once I've played through the class quests I want to play through (2 or 3 more).

 

I figure that will take me probably 1 month paid to do.

 

Beyond that, so many things are wrong with this as an "MMO", but I'm not really treating it as an MMO.

 

In my own eyes, it's a decent single player experience for an online game, and a major plus is that it has lightsabers. But it's also an extremely subpar MMO. I don't know who was in charge of many decisions about systems in this game, but they really should consider another line of work.

 

You know nothing about game decisions/development, therefore should not suggest they find a new line of work.

Edited January 15, 2012 by darthdoll

[Geglad]

im sure BW will continue to give in to EA, they are in it for the money pure and simple. no other reason to take a chance with so much money other than to get way more than you put in. BW will have to udjust to it taking longer to reach those numbers it so easily thought it could reach early in the MMO game

 

<thinking>

 

I am sorta dense, I really dont get the whole gaming development thing at all. So be patinet please and help me out here...

 

So BW will cave in to EA because they are in a business to make money, but they will have to make adjustments so the can continue to hold on to the numbers that will enable them to make that money? Does that mean that BW went into business with EA because they wanted to donate TOR to the community originally, or do you think they will be throwing every resource they can at the problems in order to make that money?

 

I am confused.

 

 

-Lad

Edited January 15, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[duffie]

Once again just because the game failed in your eyes doesn't mean it's a failure financially or otherwise. If someone eats a Big Mac and doesn't like it does that mean that McDonalds and Big Macs are failures? Billions & Billions served say otherwise....

 

Financially or otherwise.. Wouldn't the otherwise part be that it failed in his eyes?

As for mcdonald's, if it fails for me it fails for me no matter how much money the owners have

 

The only thing your post keeps repeating is that it was a financial "success", it says nothing about "failing" as obviously it can fail in other ways.. Like it did for the person you're quoting.

[darthdoll]

<thinking>

 

I am sorta dense, I really dont get the whole gaming development thing at all. So be patinet please and help me out here...

 

So BW will cave in to EA because they are in a business to make money, but they will have to make adjustments so the can continue to hold on to the numbers that will enable them to make that money? Does that mean that BW went into business with EA because they wanted to donate TOR to the community originally, or do you think they will be throwing every resource they can at the problems in order to make that money?

 

I am confused.

 

 

-Lad

 

EA basically owns bioware now, so Bioware has to answer to EA. EA give them money to produce games. As any company would do, they invest into the game, by that I mean throw everything they can at it to make the game succeed.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Paralassa
content quote

[Vihazur]

To me, a game is failure if years down the road, its mostly forgotten. No one wants to imitate what its done, or build on it, and it never developed much of a lasting widespread following. Especially in terms of MMOs, do people look on the game years later as an example to follow?

 

Or more like WAR or AoC, that may have earned plenty of money on box sales, but never prospered as much of cash cow in the longrun, because of all the issues that prevented them from growing and thriving, as a proper example of success.

 

There are plenty of ways to lower the bar on how you define success.. but why would you want to?

Edited January 15, 2012 by Vihazur

[Leenbh]

I don't know if SWTOR is going to be a "failure".

 

I do know that, as an MMO, it's lacking so many features that I will unsubscribe once I've played through the class quests I want to play through (2 or 3 more).

 

I figure that will take me probably 1 month paid to do.

 

Beyond that, so many things are wrong with this as an "MMO", but I'm not really treating it as an MMO.

 

In my own eyes, it's a decent single player experience for an online game, and a major plus is that it has lightsabers. But it's also an extremely subpar MMO. I don't know who was in charge of many decisions about systems in this game, but they really should consider another line of work.

 

Sucks for you.

[Geglad]

EA basically owns bioware now, so Bioware has to answer to EA. EA give them money to produce games. As any company would do, they invest into the game, by that I mean throw everything they can at it to make the game succeed.

 

So, that means sorta that...

 

EA, through BW, has invested in a game attempting to share a market, which at this point is highly cannibalistic, and that they will endeavor to hold on to what market share they can by using the resources they have at their disposal, in order to maintain a level of profitability that satisfies their consumers, and thereby their investors?

 

Well that sounds good to me. I was hoping they werent trying to take me for a ride. Like I said, this stuff is kinda strange to me, but...

 

Perhaps another good side-effect, and not much discussed, is the possibility of TOR failing and the subsequent effect on future investment in this genre. At the least, a failure will enlighten investors as to the needs of the consumer, and if they want success, they would do well to align themselves with those consumers. This is not to say that TOR is failing - indeed I think they very much want to make money, and now mean to "throw everything they can at it to make the game succeed." As they should, if they want to make a profit.

 

But anyways - yeah, its cool. The game I mean. Just sorta dont get all the stuff about these guys being dumb and stuff. Dumb, thats me, not these guy I think.

 

 

-Lad

[Taurusaud]

SwTOR has failed to offer players a viable alternative to WoW. This game is essentially a worse version of WoW with no end-game, linear and closed game-world, lots of bugs, unreliable UI, uninspired landscapes and lifeless environments. Nearly everything wrong with this game (including the high number of bugs and missing features) is due to a lack of careful attention to detail on part of the developers. Too many cut corners.

 

 

You can't put out a game to compete with WoW's $15/month and then have it be worse than WoW in nearly every facet save story. Bioware failed to meet market standards for MMOs in 2004 let alone 2011. Sure they will get some subscriptions from players sick of WoW or fans of the Star Wars brand, but the game has failed to reach it's true potential, and that's overly due to the development team opting for quick short-term financial gains (rush to get the game out before christmas, cutting corners on development, etc) rather than long-term financial games (i.e. taking the necessary time, hiring competent designers, etc. to put out a strong product that would retain subscriptions).

Edited January 15, 2012 by Taurusaud

[Dianoia]

I believe this game will be financially successful if it is profitable, and will be financially unsuccessful if it is not.

 

Where is my cookie?

 

/endthread

[Abriael]

Nothing, because this game is a resounding success going by any data we have so far. Simple as that.

 

A few vocal and lonely goons on a forum don't make or break any game.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Abriael