please dont put these in.. just dont..

[eloco]

OP doesnt like being butthurt by gearscore and damage meters, fair enough, just admit it instead of pretending this UI is decent.

[theadjectivenoun]

If some1 says that dps/heal meters isnt improtant ....he hasnt ever played endgame raiding.....You cannot do progress raids without combat log and dps/heal meters....Ignore all the other addons.....

 

and you would be kicked.

[Erolina]

and you would be the very first person I would kick.

 

Why? Because I want to better myself? Because I want to better the raid?

 

I guess you keep people that love to be mediocre and to just do the minimum.

 

Love trolls

[zolthie]

Things that are needed and should be implented asap to keep this game alive:

Threat meter, there is currently no way of knowing how much threat you do. Sometimes the boss attacks the healer, sometimes he attacks the tank, switches to a dps for 2 secs only to go back to the tank, it's completely random and can't be controlled in any way.

 

Damage meter, people need to know how they and others are performing to see what they are doing right or wrong, it's crucial for end-game.

 

Combat log, same as above, how are you supposed to know what, why or who killed you? Guess? No, implement combat log.

 

Target of target, for obvious reasons. There is currently no way to see who targets who, for example, the last boss in Maelstroem runs away and uses snipe, hits for a huge amount of damage, how is the healer supposed to know who he's shooting at?

 

The fat dude in whatever instance that you have to kite around the boxes, he basically oneshots you if you get shot, however, you have no idea who he's targeting so everyone have to run around the box instead of killing him. These are just two of many bosses that requires target of target. And I don't need to explain why it's needed in PvP.

 

Macros, helps people, currently the UI is very messy with one bar on each side, it looks and it is clumsy and ineffective, not only is UI customization needed, but macros helps alot when it comes to being effective.

Edited January 3, 2012 by zolthie

[Progen]

I agree that UI Mods and Macros are ace and should be in TOR.

 

Along with:

 

- Flashpoint/Ops/Heroics finder

- Dual Talent Tree Spec for your specialization

- Specialization reset vendor

- Chat bubbles

 

For any of you who disagree and quickly QQ that swtor isnt wow: many of these systems have been present in other mmos and games for many years before wow.

 

If wow is the only point of reference you have, I understand how hard it is for you to read this post AND remember how to breathe - well done.

 

ps. Your ignorance is not as good as actual knowledge.

[DarthHendo]

Bad player is bad....

 

Mad player is mad..

 

Sounds like a DPS meter got the best of him. They're alot cooler oncer you're at the top. Too bad you're apparently not good enough to get there. Dont hate cause we have tools to know you suck.

 

That is all.

 

Move along, there's nothing to see here.

[Dawning_Enmity]

I agree with OP.

 

ITs about time players need to learn how play a real game.

 

Its about time leaders need to learn how to asses their players gear / playing skills

 

Its about time to actually earn your gear!!!

 

ITS ABOUT TIME FOR A REAL GAME!

 

Keep the Addons away, from a real raiders perspective, they ruined WOW.

[Amharic]

Dps meters allow for min / maxing and rotation tweaking. It adds depth to character development for people who want that.

 

Its useful for a guild pushing top tier content.

 

If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

The problem then becomes that everyone else is required to min/max and play with a specific rotation just to be allowed to play the game at all.

 

It is convenience for the hardcore gamer alone at the expense of everyone else.

[RickRedOne]

There is no target of target in game. So please do tell where your finding a target of target window?

 

There is a target of target, just not a target of target display.

 

Target of target is keybound to shift-t I think.

[Daxr]

I agree that UI Mods and Macros are ace and should be in TOR.

 

Along with:

 

- Flashpoint/Ops/Heroics finder

- Dual Talent Tree Spec for your specialization

- Specialization reset vendor

- Chat bubbles

 

For any of you who disagree and quickly QQ that swtor isnt wow: many of these systems have been present in other mmos and games for many years before wow.

 

If wow is the only point of reference you have, I understand how hard it is for you to read this post AND remember how to breathe - well done.

 

ps. Your ignorance is not as good as actual knowledge.

 

I agree with all except the LFG finder, only if it wasn't cross server. The LFG tool in WoW made finding groups super easy for sure, but it also kind of killed the community for a lot of people. Groups never talked, ninjas could ninja without remorse and you could be an ******e to whoever you want. Your only fear would be to be kicked and then sit in a que for another 5 mins. 5 secs if you were a tank or a healer.

[Ashorian]

aside from dbm, it's amazing how little self esteem people have. if you want to play and have fun and not worry about dps meters, just ignore the people who spam them at you. if you get kicked they weren't worth your time. they're ******es. I prefer to be able to accurately read what is happening and what i could do to play to my maximum potential and meters/parses are a good way to determine this.

 

like i said earlier: if someone is spamming a meter at you, ignore them, or actually put them on your ignore list. some people are mean. just because a mean person used an addon to hurt your feelings doesn't mean it's not a good tool. it's not 100% necessary, but in the right hands, it's useful. are you saying that if someone approached you kindly and privately about something you could potentially do better at, you would get angry and frustrated? I guarantee if someone nicely approached you about a way to dps or spec that could improve your success and enjoyment of the game, and you did not take kindly to it, they would back off. for mean people, there is an ignore function.

 

please keep an open mind.

 

 

e: maybe it's my musician background but all my life i was taught to accept both positive and negative criticism and improve myself based on it. that being said, i have never spammed meters in a public channel unless requested. I keep my statistical data to myself for self-improvement and usually only spam cheesed aoe damage to my guild chat for the lols.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Ashorian

[DarthHendo]

I agree with OP.

 

ITs about time players need to learn how play a real game.

 

Its about time leaders need to learn how to asses their players gear / playing skills

 

Its about time to actually earn your gear!!!

 

ITS ABOUT TIME FOR A REAL GAME!

 

Keep the Addons away, from a real raiders perspective, they ruined WOW.

 

And how can the raid leader asses the dps without a meter. The OP suggest you stand there and watch who's not moving....

 

#1 there is way too much going on in a raid to watch someone 100% of the time to see if they are attacking.

 

#2 they could just be standing there spamming some no damage move and not know how bad it is. I've noticed alot of spells are buffed by other spells, therfore ROTATIONS are needed to max your DPS.

 

Dont know if youve noticed, but enrage timers are pretty stiff in this game. If that damage meter helps me find the weak link and replace it, that save me AND 7-15 OTHER PEOPLE alot of time.

 

You cant always tell by a persons gear what there raid performance will be. Especially in TOR as epic gear is a gimme from PvP. Meters need to be in game as a way to judge performance. Most likely you dont want meters, because you cant perform. So either learn to up your game, and play with some skill or quit.

[shdwklown]

I agree with OP.

 

ITs about time players need to learn how play a real game.

 

Addons, have not and never really played a game for you. There was one, AVR, but that was killed with extreme prejudice by blizz. Having more information is not a bad thing, nor is having more control of how you choose to use the skills available to your class. I'm not looking to macro every single combat ability into one button, that is completely idiotic. It would be nice to have certain buffs on a single macro to free up hot keys though.

 

Its about time leaders need to learn how to asses their players gear / playing skills

 

How, exactly, would you suggest they do that with the current build of TOR? Continue on with the whole "We won so we rule!!!" mantra? Sorry, that doesn't work for me. I have enough things to manage on my screen, I don't really need to pay attention to the other 7-15 people on my team and verify they are doing everything they should be at every second of an encounter.

 

I find it interesting that in one breath anti-addon players will say "no dps meters, look at the action" and then say "you should be able to watch all the other players and see who is doing what". Really?

 

Its about time to actually earn your gear!!!

 

Can't really argue with this, but having/not having addons really doesn't change whether or not you earn your gear. Again, there is still a player in control of when or why they should move.

 

ITS ABOUT TIME FOR A REAL GAME!

 

Keep the Addons away, from a real raiders perspective, they ruined WOW.

 

DBM didn't ruin wow. None of the dmg meters ruined wow. For that mater, gear score did not ruin wow.

 

Players ruined wow.

 

I'll let that soak in for a moment.

 

Yup, players ruined wow. Not the people using the addons I mentioned as intended. No, the players who were being jerks about running Naxx 10 with an ICC level GS. The people who couldn't or wouldn't put the time in to get things done, who whined until the keys were removed from raids and heroic dungeons. The whole " i should have it because the other player does", that's who ruined the MMO market. Quit putting it on the addons, it is a tool and nothing more.

 

I'm sure somewhere 10k years ago, when the shovel was first introduced a similar argument was occurring. "Get rid of the shovel...you should be able to do it with your hands. You are ruining farming!!!!"

 

For that matter maybe we should petition BW to exclude peripherals like a G15 mouse and keyboard, I mean they have more buttons so that player will be at an obvious advantage to someone with a normal kb and 2 button mouse. We simply cannot have that.

[verzin]

Very well written, and I worship every glorious word.

[Sythrasz]

tl;dr: I want to get carried by people who can play the game, but I don't want them to know they're carrying me

[DarthHendo]

tl;dr: I want to get carried by people who can play the game, but I don't want them to know they're carrying me

 

I want to draw a ninja sitting in a backpack all sneaky like lol

[Bird_of_Thunder]

Correction about the extra bars:

 

Bioware has these as an option in the UI options. I use them all.

 

Regular: Main DPS

Lower Center: More DPS

Right: Some Buffs and Heals

Left: Other buffs and Misc. (I.e. speeder summon, quick travel, Channel Hatred, stances, Unnatural Might, etc.)

 

Tada.

 

Try using this. Have them key bound as well. R+ and L+ for sides. Regular for top center. J+ for bottom center

[Nissin]

Not being able to scale the UI smaller for more screen room kind of sucks I don't need to see massive buttons on my actionbars all day when I have them remembered would rather see more of the game. Also a combat log would be amazing so we know you guys didn't just create classes and not balance them correctly.

[dchero]

To beat a dead horse, let's put this fairly suciently:

 

The people that don't want UI's / Macro's / Mod's are the self-entitlement crowd that believes that since they "pay to play" they should not have to try to play better.

 

That's really the bottom line ... selfishness is the all inspiring motivation for their anything but the vanilla interface. And whats worse, they want to shove that mentality down the throats of everyone else.

 

Frankly, as the OP stated, the most common response is: If you don't like them, don't use them ... but the reality is, not using them will make them go from being Baddies to being Terribles and the only people they could group with are other Baddies / Terribles.

 

So in reality, what this group is saying is: I think I am entitled to be BAD and likewise entitled to be CARRIED by the GOOD players through content.

 

Stop already ... your not entitled to be carried through anything by anybody so stop pushing for the game to be "gimped" cause your BAD.

 

For SWTOR to be succesful, over the long run, they have to do some basics ... they know this, the public knows this, and more importantly, the shareholders know this.

 

They have to at least have a combat log ... they have to at least have some UI customization ... and they have to at least have some ability for basic macro's (like a mouse over macro, or a bar swap macro).

 

You can tilt at windmills and say this stuff will ruin the game, but the reality is that the game will die without them anyways ... they are basic ... they are sensible ... and the competition, by and large, offers way more so BW has to step up to the plate regardless of what anybody on these forums thinks.

[DarthHendo]

^^ WINNER!

 

 

/thread

[lueckjathom]

When you add mods of any variety to the game, the people who use them play better. They do their job more effectively.

 

When a large part of the player base starts doing their job more effectively, the future content then gets balanced around players using them, and it becomes difficult for those who don't.

 

Currently, this game is incredibly easy for a skilled MMO player. It is designed for the casual player who doesn't want to learn how to play as effectively as possible and instead bumble around pushing whatever buttons he thinks are neat.

 

If addons are added, it will eventually mean a jump in the difficulty of flashpoints/operations.

 

That is what all these people don't want. They want a game that is balanced around being able to continue to bumble around with no skill. They want to just be able to keep pressing a terrible attack/heal rotation because it looks neat. They want to be able to continue wearing the wrong gear because this helmet looks better. These are the people who enjoy the game with no addons and no complications or requirements. And these are the people who say that addons aren't needed because oh look mom I beat the easy-mode flashpoint that didn't require any skill anyway. So all of us who want them must be really terrible players to need them.

 

Well guess what, we don't NEED them. We enjoy them. It is part of what make the game fun for players who actually enjoy the mechanics of the game.

 

If you leave out the tools for self-improvement, then there is no need for it. That is why the casual "sunday driver" players don't want them.

[Zombull]

BioWare can easily restrict mods from accessing functionality that will grant game play advantage. WoW does this. Your "2 button" anecdote about WoW is either extremely dated (before the macro restrictions went in) or a complete fabrication.

 

My 2¢:

 

• Mods are 100% necessary in any MMO.
  
• UI modding support takes a lot of pressure off of devs and attracts many more players to the game.
  
• BioWare's job is to ensure the macro system and mod support are restricted in such a way as to prevent game play advantage.
  

 

[Pooglecoborg]

Also for a final note only because I know I'm going to get the oh so cliche response of "If you hate damage meters, it's because you are bad and get kicked out of groups" well I can tell you this. I can easily get into the top 5 guilds on any server of any game world wide. And guess what.... all without the use of a damn meter.

 

No you can't, lol.

[Furlyghost]

This game will fail in the long run if addons arent put in. Its simple, if you dont want to use addons, dont use them. But dont take them away from players who want to maximize their potential and play to the best of their ability.

[TheRainstater]

I agree with the OP.

 

I'v played lots of MMO's. My MMO experience predates WoW. I never needed an add-on to be good. Add-ons in an MMO are for simple people who cant even play a consul game with out cheats or a game genie.

 

WOW is a care bear game. Nothing about WoW is hard, special or even something to brag on the internet about. WOW is super easy mode and if you need an Add-on to play wow than you are the one who sucks at games.

 

If they start flooding this game with unneeded add-ons dumbing it down so even the worst players can think they are good I will move on to the next game.