please dont put these in.. just dont..

[JaspahX]

I agree with the OP.

 

I'v played lots of MMO's. My MMO experience predates WoW. I never needed an add-on to be good. Add-ons in an MMO are for simple people who cant even play a consul game with out cheats or a game genie.

 

WOW is a care bear game. Nothing about WoW is hard, special or even something to brag on the internet about. WOW is super easy mode and if you need an Add-on to play wow than you are the one who sucks at games.

 

If they start flooding this game with unneeded add-ons dumbing it down so even the worst players can think they are good I will move on to the next game.

 

If you don't need an add-on, fine. You do your thing. But how about let the people who want to use add-ons and maximize their characters do that?

 

Just because YOU don't want it, doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't get it either.

 

Also you would be very surprised at just how many people failed at WoW even with add-ons, so I don't think someone using add-ons is a very good assessment of their skill.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JaspahX

[TheRainstater]

If you don't need an add-on, fine. You do your thing. But how about let the people who want to use add-ons and maximize their characters do that?

 

Just because YOU don't want it, doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't get it either.

 

You need software to help make smart choices about your character? You cant play smart with out a program?

[lueckjathom]

You need software to help make smart choices about your character? You cant play smart with out a program?

 

Again, you are just trying to puff up your chest here, like you are something special for saying you don't need addons to get by.

 

No one NEEDS addons to play this game. The difficulty of most of the content is a joke. Sorry but you aren't special or skilled.

 

Most of us who want addons want them because we enjoy them. It makes the game more fun for us to have the convenience and the tools. Do I need them to play just as well as you do? Nope, haven't found anything hard in this game yet. Would it still be more enjoyable for some of us with them? It sure would.

[TheRainstater]

Also you would be very surprised at just how many people failed at WoW even with add-ons, so I don't think someone using add-ons is a very good assessment of their skill.

 

I'm only judging by my experience. When people came from a game littered with easy mode add-ons (WoW) they sucked when they moved to other better, harder games and quickly quit and went back to playing their easy mode game.

 

So my experience Add-ons make for bad players.

[DonnyCage]

to all lof you who simply say to any of this; addons, macroä's custom Ui's;

 

"you dont want them, dont use em" well how about you dont spam them in our face and make it so we HAVE to use them to make you shut up.

 

example-* game interface mods*

 

so, you cannot play with 2 bars on the bottom, and one on each side, man.. i feel for you, (not) maybe if you learn how to place your abilities you actually need in a good way, keybind what you can, place combo spells next to eachother,

 

heres a tip* combat skills goes to first row, CD spells go just under it, buffs, healing items, on the side, shells, stances on the other in a row,

not that hard ppl, coming from a 50 operative, i got healing, dps, ranged, melee, social items, crafted special items, my shells, worked out, guess what, all it took was 10 min to set it up after i dinged 50, you need to build an UI with what the game offers you, see it as a challange, dont expect the real world to let you simple re-arange something to your liking.

 

(im still horrified by the in game footage i have of a player playing wow, with 2 BUTTONS, and he is raiding with it... i mean it 2 buttons 1 for dps 1 for healing, NOTHING ELSE.

 

 

 

example-* G-score*

 

well then, please turn your attention to wow, where you cannot enter a single heroic instance and raid if you are not a full time raider who do nothing but spam the latest of the latest raid content, only to be shouted at upon LOADING maybe 3 seconds if they are slow, the following; OMGWTF IS YOUR GSCORE! USUCK!! and then either try to /kick you, or ragequit themselves, sound familiar? welcome to g-score!

 

(note the person has just made a complete judgment about the player based on the data his addon has given him, g-score low = very bad player avoid like the plague) for all he knows the player knows more about the tactics inside *watever place they have entered* better then he himself does, does he care? why should he gs is low, autokick*

 

*also fyi, this is a heroic, game interface let me in, alas my gear is whats needed, the developers put those restrictions in remember* player is ignored and still autokicked* welcome to gs again!

 

wow has stopped being about the game, now its all about who can get the best gear fastest for the lowest effort, dont belive me? please... close your addon interface window and take another look.

 

*****

 

example-* healbot*

 

players managed to heal fine without this for along time, all it needed was to turn your eyes -slightly- to the side and watch the healthbars, and then calculate in your head swiftly, which heal do i need to cast? if you have played a healer for any period of time and have any experience that goes past *i just respecced healer what i dooo??* you should have a rough idea of how long each of you heals cast timers are, how much they rougly heal, depending on your healing targets health, if you dont know this, dont play a healer, for both our sakes please....

 

example-* dps/healmeters*

 

omg no,

 

the spam of chats here we are again. *rolls eyes*

i think most know what i mean by that, to see 4 players spam recount at once, in the end of wow made me totally ignore the /p chat, you do your job to the best you can, you cant autoattack in this game, its fairly easy to see who is slacking, (psst they dont move *nods* not hard to tell)

 

wow's raiding developers now USE this to design the new raid content crushing down the numbers that you want, alas, if you have any interest in raiding you WILL NEED to get it, (thus your argument; dont want it dont get it* turns invalid)

at first before addon's ppl took 15 min to explain tactics, passing a raid was a feat, it wasnt just something you did twice in one night cause you where bored,

now all you need to know, is nicely placed on the web, spam this premade macro of, 1 1 1 1 1 1 2, 1 1 1 1 1 2, and you will max out your dps,

 

players are no longer required to think on this level, all you do, is go download a macro, spam it, and hello!

 

example-* deadly boss mods*

 

did this boss spit fire... it looks like a dragon... do i avoid tail.. i cant remember... maybe i should ask.. ohh no wait.. i just actiavate my addon, people will think i know what to do since all the info i will need will be spammed on my screen in my face that others can do without the addon ITS PERFECT FOR ME! i dont need to remember or know ****!

 

^ this was actually said in raid chat of my endgame raiding guild in wow, guess how long it took him to get kicked. (under 30 seconds im not lyin, i laugh still thinking about it)

 

example-* macro's*

 

credits/gold/platinum spammers here we come galore!

closely followed by 1-2 button spammers, who just copy pasted a macro from the web to max out healing/dps/threat.

 

*hisses*

 

again, players dont need to think, abusers have an easy time to reach the ingame market. no ty.

 

 

************************

summery*

 

player 1; i say to you this, dont want them? dont use them? duuuh.

 

player 2; so tell me, if you get these, how long will it take for me, before i HAVE TO get them to compete? to even get an invite to where you are going?

(btw i have memorized the bosses i know what to and my gear is in the level of whats nee... ahh ok i understand il just be over here then)

 

player 1; dont know anything, he just uppdates addon and follows the screen popups.

^this is todays wow gamebase.

 

player 2; reads up on the bosses, studies, plans days ahead.

^this USED to be is gamebase.

 

guess who of these now rule wow.

anyone wanna hand me a lightsaber i wanna cut of the head of player 1 before he can infect others.

 

 

*now how to solve this?*

 

deadly boss mods*

 

ok i can understand that some ppl want to see a enrage timer on the boss, sort of like a countdown before he bassicly kills you all, dont need an addon for that, developers can simply add in a countdown just the same as they have in warzones, no bigie.

 

g-score,

 

kill it with fire, i wont even consider this.

 

Custom UI,

at best, let players rearange the bars already in the game, nothing else. rift did this.

 

meters, macro's

 

for the love of all that is nonspam, nooo!

 

healbot's

 

... ok, you'r level 50, you dont know how much your basic heal does when you cast it, not how long it takes too cast it, hmmmm yeah you fail, you have a brain, use it.

 

now... let the flamming begin.

 

PREACH IT BROTHER!!!!!

 

 

I can't even stress how much I agree with this ENTIRE post... This should be a sticky imo.

 

The mods were just out of hand in wow... It was BEYOND ridiculous. In fact, they were SO rampant, that when I posted a video, people were discussing and debating which mods I was using... I WASN'T USING ANY. That's how bad it was, that people didn't even recognize the actual game (the way it was meant to be played) because they had so many mods on their own stuff.

 

I'm sorry, but if any of you have to use mods to play, then you suck. I've tanked, healed, PvPd for the past 8 years, never once using or needing a mod.

[Zorke]

Any game should be played the way the player wants to play it.

 

The top arena players in the world (hydramist for example) do not use any addons at all.

 

You don't HAVE to use addons to be good at WoW. Get on their level.

 

However, they DO use macros, something any mmo needs ffs.

[Sythrasz]

I want to draw a ninja sitting in a backpack all sneaky like lol

awesome mental image right there

[Oogresh]

 

example-* game interface mods*

 

you talk exclusively about the position of the action bars.. there is way more to it than that. people want to see what buffs/dots/hots they have on monsters or group members, some might just want to move the position of the map or the chat because of how they play. honestly i dont care where my action bars are because i have everything on my hotkeys. but there are so many other things that people would like.

 

example-* G-score*

 

agreed. we do not need gearscore.

 

example-* healbot*

 

never used healbot and don't think its needed however I don't feel like they are really gaining anything by using this. its not like it tells them what heal to cast on who, just organizes it neatly and makes healing simpler

 

example-* dps/healmeters*

 

depends on how you use them, personally I like them not really for seeing actual dps but for seeing what happened in a fight that may have caused a wipe. what kind of damage the group was taking, if someone got 1 shot by an ability. if adds were doing a lot more damage than we expected. and also for tanking know what abilities to watch for to use your cd's

 

example-* deadly boss mods*

 

this i guess i am kind of iffy on. unless everyone in the raid would get a portrait of the boss with cast bars its hard for healers to know when the boss will be using an ability. personally i have played with and without this feature and what i end up doing is putting the boss on focus and constantly clicking on his watching if he is about to cast something that requires a reaction like shielding the tank before he cast a hard hitting ability.

 

example-* macro's*

 

the way rift had it setup you could do a 1 button rotation. which i agree is not something a game should let you do. what I like to do though would be to put auto attack/ or have my pet attack macro'd to my abilities. right now I have noticed if i do not take damage my companion will not attack (i have since hotkeyed the auto attack) but having that macro'd to my attacks is just more convenient so instead of having my companion come back to me after each mob and stand there i could use a macro to keep it attacking.

[DarthHendo]

You need software to help make smart choices about your character? You cant play smart with out a program?

 

No, i need a program to allow me to show me that you are not making smart choices. With tight enrage timers you NEED to see where you're falling short. Min/maxing happens in competitive end game. DPS/Healing meters are a TOOL used to refine, analyze, and learn how to squeeze the most of your character. If you dont want to partake in said end game, than don't. Problem solved.

[Sythrasz]

It's funny how this debate, in wow or any other mmo I've seen, is entirely hypocritical in nature. You don't want to have a certain playstyle imposed on you, so you impose your playstyle on those other people. Double standards ftw.

[dragonfor]

I agree that UI Mods and Macros are ace and should be in TOR.

 

Along with:

 

- Flashpoint/Ops/Heroics finder

- Dual Talent Tree Spec for your specialization

- Specialization reset vendor

- Chat bubbles

 

For any of you who disagree and quickly QQ that swtor isnt wow: many of these systems have been present in other mmos and games for many years before wow.

 

If wow is the only point of reference you have, I understand how hard it is for you to read this post AND remember how to breathe - well done.

 

ps. Your ignorance is not as good as actual knowledge.

 

1) I'm on the fence about this one. Personally, I think a LFG chat that just hits all worlds would be enough. Otherwise, I'm afraid it'd evolve into another cross-server LFG. And that's no bueno.

 

2) Agreed.

 

3) By "specialization" do you mean your advanced class? If so, no. The advanced classes are classes of their own. Asking to switch back and forth is like asking to respec from a Mage to a Warrior. If you want a Mage and a Warrior, level both. (Did not reference WoW, merely the archetypes themselves. Just sayin')

 

4) Seems cartoony to me which is why I always turn them off. If they have an on/off option, so be it.

[RuffDaRuffest]

Anyone that says they do not want any type of dps meters in the game is either very bad or very confused.

 

Dps/Heal meters - Seperate the bad players from the good.

 

It shows you...

who is active the most during a fight

who is taking the most damage and from what

who is healing the most

the abilities people are using and how often

etc...

 

Looking at the results of a dps meter will show you many things about a player and whether they know what they are doing or not. So if you do not want this in the game then clearly you are not a endgame player or have any idea what endgame is about.

 

If players are bad and dont understand their class well they shouldn't hold back a guild from clearing content and should be exposed.

 

As far as everything else, you can live without most of it and just adapt. Good players will

 

No it won't... It's not even near showing how much/well someone heals. It's not comrehensive in terms of activity. It's good for many other reasons tho'. Like checking your own DPS, which helps with proper theorycrafting. Other than that, allows you to see if you are not falling behind with damage dealt (tho' it requires some brain).

 

--------------

 

On other note, I'm big fan of macros, they let you save lotsa space on bars (like Dirty Kick + Headshot/Cheap Shot?) and honestly make life so much lighter;)

 

-------------

 

UI Mods ain't bad, tho' we should get options to rearrange default UI like WAR had. Also I'd like to have better buffs/debuffs display.

 

-------------

 

DBM - NO! It makes game brainless with everything popping around.

 

-------------

 

Healbot/Grid, well as long as these are only raid frames it's good. I prefered to see how long my hots last as druid in WoW (try keeping up if u HoT 10 people:P).

[Mavery]

On DPS meters:

 

Let's say you're doing a hard mode flashpoint. You are wiping because you are just missing the enrage timer. By just missing I mean it comes on at 5-10%. Now, if both DPS were bad, you would get the enrage much earlier. But this is not happening. If you get the enrage at 5-10% it means that one DPS is pulling their weight and the other is not (or is not doing quite enough to pull it off).

 

How do you know which DPS is doing their job and which isn't? Gear inspections? We know there is a great fallacy there. Talking to them? Everybody lies, that's no good. Watching their rotations? They both look the same. Oh we could get them to list off their rotations! Wait, they could be lying.

 

I'm sure you get the point.

 

DPS meters remove all question. It's very easy to figure out how much DPS is required to beat a boss. If you wipe on a boss, the meter will show who is doing enough and who isn't. Problem solved.

 

But no, it is infinitely better to kick both DPS than give us analytical tools so we waste so much less time.

[Cokeroft]

Just wanted to say: There are more to mods than what you mentioned. DMG Meters, Custom UI, and other basic raiding addons should at least be supported. As others said, you don't need to use them, but just so people can see how much damage YOU are doing is. If you suck, ****.

 

What about GTM mods? Relic Mods? Chat mods? Chuck Norris mods? Nameplate mods? The list goes on. Go to Curse.com and view the addons for WoW, there are hundreds of other than are being mentioned here. If they have addon support, it's not ONLY for the raiding mods.

 

The best part about addons is the game company can get extra (aka free work) out of the community, and it literally does nothing negative to the game (unless it's an exploit, then it gets shut down). Most companies and games now a day allow modding of their game because it's hundreds of thousands of hours they don't need to even pay for.

 

In short: If you are against addons, you are against progression of the game.

[Kelticfury]

It's implemented already.

 

Really? Where? How do I enable it?

[Kelticfury]

This was literally the worst post that I ever read on the internet. Every point made by the OP was so blatantly incorrect and idiotic that any normal human should be sicked by the fact that one of their fellow species has such a severe lack of intelligence.

 

Anyone got a translation for this?^^

 

If you are going to try and make someone look stupid, you might want to learn to write a coherent sentence.

[Kelticfury]

I dont understand people in this thread that are against Dps Meters.

 

It is accountability to make sure your players/ raid members are pulling their weight.

 

If you are against it then there is only one possible reason why and that is simply put you do not want people to see how bad you are.

 

There can not be another reason.

 

The pros outwieght the cons by a long shot...

 

There is not one person in a progression raiding guild that would ever support this. Only people that could not cut it...

 

I know hardcore raiders only make up like 15-20 percent of the community while casuals are the other 80 percent but you have to understand those 20 percent drive the success of the game/economy.

 

If you lost hardcore raiders and you will if these things dont change the game with suffer for it. It is that simple

 

Because you can't grasp a concept, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And you are completely on the opposite side of the scale of wrong with your statement about 20% driving anything. The money comes from the other 80%. That is not to say that any company wants to lose 20% of their business, but to claim that that 20% is a driving force in any way is just completely wrong.

[kidbs]

I don't really care about damage meters but we really do need a combat log. Sometimes it would be nice to see what just knocked my hp down by 50% so that I can avoid it later. Also, I would like to be able to move bars around on my screen and resize certain elements such as the buff/debuff bar. Pretty basic stuff really that every other MMO around has.

[Kelticfury]

I wonder how long it is going to take these WoWers squaling about bads to realize that most dps classes in this game heal too. what are you going to do, you derps who claim to be sooo worried about carrying someone else through the game when their dps isn't top notch because they are healing you? Kick the healer?

 

This isn't WoW ffs adapt and grow, or go back to playing WoW. But ffs do not try and turn this game into the massive fail that is WoW these days.

[Sythrasz]

I wonder how long it is going to take these WoWers squaling about bads to realize that most dps classes in this game heal too. what are you going to do, you derps who claim to be sooo worried about carrying someone else through the game when their dps isn't top notch because they are healing you? Kick the healer?

 

This isn't WoW ffs adapt and grow, or go back to playing WoW. But ffs do not try and turn this game into the massive fail that is WoW these days.

 

If you are going to try and make someone look stupid, you might want to learn to write a coherent sentence.

The irony.

[Cokeroft]

I wonder how long it is going to take these WoWers squaling about bads to realize that most dps classes in this game heal too. what are you going to do, you derps who claim to be sooo worried about carrying someone else through the game when their dps isn't top notch because they are healing you? Kick the healer?

 

This isn't WoW ffs adapt and grow, or go back to playing WoW. But ffs do not try and turn this game into the massive fail that is WoW these days.

 

This right is here is why you're retarded. Let me guess, you played a Shadow Priest who tried to talent half disc and half shadow and play hybrid. You bring HEALERS to heal, not DPS. If a DPS can keep themselves alive, that's great, but it's not required to be a DPS raider.

 

If a DPS ever said "but I did some healing to the tank too!" I'm going to kick them, or look at the damage meters and see how much they actually healed. Oh wait, you don't want addons so the raid leader will look at you and say no one prove that, so you are just being a **** DPS.

 

Also, a game that has 10m+ subscribers is in means a fail of a game, but NT.

[Kelticfury]

The irony.

 

There is no irony there, if you don't know what ffs means, look it up.

 

To bad there is no website to translate poor sentence structure and bad grammar.

[DarthDemens]

If some1 says that dps/heal meters isnt improtant ....he hasnt ever played endgame raiding.....You cannot do progress raids without combat log and dps/heal meters....Ignore all the other addons.....

 

That's a load of bull.

 

My guild was regularly clearing Firelands in Cataclysm. None of us used DBM or Recount. We did what smart players do. We learned our class, and we learned the fights.

[DarthHendo]

I wonder how long it is going to take these WoWers squaling about bads to realize that most dps classes in this game heal too. what are you going to do, you derps who claim to be sooo worried about carrying someone else through the game when their dps isn't top notch because they are healing you? Kick the healer?

 

This isn't WoW ffs adapt and grow, or go back to playing WoW. But ffs do not try and turn this game into the massive fail that is WoW these days.

 

If the heals are lacking to the point that a DPS needs to stop and off heal, and because of this we hit an enrage and wipe.... YES! Kick the healer and find a competent one. Assuming it wasn't part of the designed encounter. There are a few bosses where a few off heals are helpful. In that scenario, I as a non fail player, realise that, and actually a DPS/Healing meter would reflect the extra healing done.

 

Now, if there was no healing needed, and you just decide to throw some heals for no reason and we hit enrage, I would kick you.

 

If you don't like it, then you don't have to be part of those groups. Have fun with the rest of your fail friends...

[Kelticfury]

This right is here is why you're retarded. Let me guess, you played a Shadow Priest who tried to talent half disc and half shadow and play hybrid. You bring HEALERS to heal, not DPS. If a DPS can keep themselves alive, that's great, but it's not required to be a DPS raider.

 

If a DPS ever said "but I did some healing to the tank too!" I'm going to kick them, or look at the damage meters and see how much they actually healed. Oh wait, you don't want addons so the raid leader will look at you and say no one prove that, so you are just being a **** DPS.

 

Also, a game that has 10m+ subscribers is in means a fail of a game, but NT.

 

I don't play WoW. Can't stand it. I am talking about the game that these forums are for. SWTOR. Or are you so out of the loop that you don't even understand the classes in THIS game.