Star Wars vs WH40K

[internaty]

First of.

 

The next guy or girl calling a force user is psyker is gonne die at my lightsaber.

 

Second all the arguments are about outnumbering and single battle's.

 

Ask any really life generaly how do you beat a enemy that outnumbers and out tech you and all will say gurrila tatic's.

 

As i said befor in terms of sheer might the imperium is stronger.

 

But there isnt a single person in the entire 40K that could hope to match the jedi and sith in terms of tatic's.

 

The warp is darngerous to travel and you can easly get lost(without the emperor to guide humans ship they cant even warptravel without getting lost forever)

 

Hyperdrive allows you to cross the galaxie from one then till the other in a few hours.

It is relyable and works for everyone.

 

Also you all asume it is 1vs1 fight.

You really think the nercon's tyranids elder ork's etc are gonne stop fighting the imperuim just because the galatic empire arise?

Ofcourse not.

 

Stop talking about faction vs faction and think about it.

The imperium of man barely survive's vs all the threats if the star wars force's would invade they would just be a other faction trying to kill there pafatic excuus for a dimigod emperor.

 

As for the choas powers. c'tan, force, warp etc.

If we are gonne use one shot miricals i am using my god card.

Gg i will you lose have a nice death.

[Foxfirega]

First of.

 

The next guy or girl calling a force user is psyker is gonne die at my lightsaber.

 

OMG THEY'RE PSYKERS. :U Even ignoring that, again. Psychic hoods are directed mental assaults, like a hammer to the brain, specifically designed to interrupt the thought process to prevent psychic activity. All of the Force relies on concentration and focus - you ever try that with a serious hangover or a migraine?

 

Second all the arguments are about outnumbering and single battle's.

 

Ask any really life generaly how do you beat a enemy that outnumbers and out tech you and all will say gurrila tatic's.

 

As i said befor in terms of sheer might the imperium is stronger.

 

But there isnt a single person in the entire 40K that could hope to match the jedi and sith in terms of tatic's.

 

I dunno, when it comes to 'tactics', I'm going to give it to the guy who was born, bred, and trained for war and has been doing his job, successfully, for the past three hundred plus years. Even your standard Imperial Guard Commander can live for 1-2 centuries (some of the more hardcore characters are older then that - Gunnery Seargent 'Stonetooth' Harker is at least 80 and is still fit enough to lift and use a heavy bolter unassisted. For a standard-nothing human, this is generally a crew-operated heavy weapons platform or vehicle mounted).

 

Guerilla tactics can work, but when the enemy can extend it's pinky finger (as far as resources go) and throw more and larger ships at you then any invasion you've ever seen (the Yuuzhan Vong had approximate scale, being a dedicated invasion force, but nowhere near the size; Your standard Imperium cruiser outright dwarfs the largest ships ever built in the Star Wars universe barring a few noteworthy exceptions [The Executor class Super Star Destroyers may be as big as Imperium Battleships. How many of those were there again?]. In any dedicated invasion or acquisition of space by the Imperial Guard, they don't just hit one planet or system either. They hit multiple systems, in a constant sweeping barrage until something stops them)... I dunno, I'm going to give it to the guys that regularly lose more ships and people to clerical errors then they do in actual combat.

 

The warp is darngerous to travel and you can easly get lost(without the emperor to guide humans ship they cant even warptravel without getting lost forever)

 

Hyperdrive allows you to cross the galaxie from one then till the other in a few hours.

It is relyable and works for everyone.

 

Warp travel is dangerous, yes, but it's also just as fast as Hyperdrive. I'm not going to contest something that's a fact I've already accepted. However, the problem is that in order to 'win' the conflict, the Republic would have to fall back on tactics that are extremely distasteful to them (orbital bombardment or bio-agents, and so on). The Imperium is under no such shackles - those aren't just acceptable tactics, those are generally PREFERRED tactics if the targets are of no strategic value at the end of the day.

 

 

Also you all asume it is 1vs1 fight.

You really think the nercon's tyranids elder ork's etc are gonne stop fighting the imperuim just because the galatic empire arise?

Ofcourse not.

 

Stop talking about faction vs faction and think about it.

The imperium of man barely survive's vs all the threats if the star wars force's would invade they would just be a other faction trying to kill there pafatic excuus for a dimigod emperor.

 

As for the choas powers. c'tan, force, warp etc.

If we are gonne use one shot miricals i am using my god card.

Gg i will you lose have a nice death.

 

I was comparing the Imperium and the Republic because they're easy analogues, and that's the only way to do so and be fair. The Republic has never had to deal with an enemy that has no purpose or function other then the outright elimination of all living life in the galaxy in one form or another (Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos). Do you honestly think that if the Imperium and Republic got into a slugfest, that one of these three groups wouldn't hot-drop into the middle of it and start kicking the collective bottoms of both sides?

 

The Yuuzhan Vong were kittens compared to the Tyranids, Chaos, and Necrons. They had mostly humanoid thought patterns. They could be bargined with. They could know fear. Only one of those three shows any signs of being capable of that (Chaos) and any bargins they make are going to be Faustian at best.

 

I don't even think there exists anything in the Star Wars universe to come close to the raw, awesome power of things like, say... Eldar Avatars, Chaos Greater Daemons, or Necron C'tan shards. How do you necessarily propose those be stopped? Nevermind that two of those unleash constant psychic assault on everything in range - ignoring whether The Force = Psyker Ability, it's still a dedicated, constant mental assault on the minds of everyone nearby.

 

Which is also why I didn't bring up Tyranids either - Shadow in the Warp comes up any time a Synapse creature is in range of a Psyker. Because the Tyranid Synapse Creature is emitting a constant barrage of raw mental energy that demoralizes regular infantry and people. Fighting against eldritch abominations that are quite literally oozing an aura of raw terror strong and thick enough to cover an entire planet is rough, even if you are trained to deal with it. Republic soldiers had enough problems dealing with horrors like rakghouls on Taris or the Yuuzan Vong infantry, and they didn't actively unleash constant psychic assaults.

 

Imperium vs. Republic is the best case scenario the SW universe has for winning, and even then, there are comfier snowballs in the center of active volcanoes.

[internaty]

OMG THEY'RE PSYKERS. :U Even ignoring that, again. Psychic hoods are directed mental assaults, like a hammer to the brain, specifically designed to interrupt the thought process to prevent psychic activity. All of the Force relies on concentration and focus - you ever try that with a serious hangover or a migraine?

 

 

 

I dunno, when it comes to 'tactics', I'm going to give it to the guy who was born, bred, and trained for war and has been doing his job, successfully, for the past three hundred plus years. Even your standard Imperial Guard Commander can live for 1-2 centuries (some of the more hardcore characters are older then that - Gunnery Seargent 'Stonetooth' Harker is at least 80 and is still fit enough to lift and use a heavy bolter unassisted. For a standard-nothing human, this is generally a crew-operated heavy weapons platform or vehicle mounted).

 

Guerilla tactics can work, but when the enemy can extend it's pinky finger (as far as resources go) and throw more and larger ships at you then any invasion you've ever seen (the Yuuzhan Vong had approximate scale, being a dedicated invasion force, but nowhere near the size; Your standard Imperium cruiser outright dwarfs the largest ships ever built in the Star Wars universe barring a few noteworthy exceptions [The Executor class Super Star Destroyers may be as big as Imperium Battleships. How many of those were there again?]. In any dedicated invasion or acquisition of space by the Imperial Guard, they don't just hit one planet or system either. They hit multiple systems, in a constant sweeping barrage until something stops them)... I dunno, I'm going to give it to the guys that regularly lose more ships and people to clerical errors then they do in actual combat.

 

 

 

Warp travel is dangerous, yes, but it's also just as fast as Hyperdrive. I'm not going to contest something that's a fact I've already accepted. However, the problem is that in order to 'win' the conflict, the Republic would have to fall back on tactics that are extremely distasteful to them (orbital bombardment or bio-agents, and so on). The Imperium is under no such shackles - those aren't just acceptable tactics, those are generally PREFERRED tactics if the targets are of no strategic value at the end of the day.

 

 

 

 

I was comparing the Imperium and the Republic because they're easy analogues, and that's the only way to do so and be fair. The Republic has never had to deal with an enemy that has no purpose or function other then the outright elimination of all living life in the galaxy in one form or another (Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos). Do you honestly think that if the Imperium and Republic got into a slugfest, that one of these three groups wouldn't hot-drop into the middle of it and start kicking the collective bottoms of both sides?

 

The Yuuzhan Vong were kittens compared to the Tyranids, Chaos, and Necrons. They had mostly humanoid thought patterns. They could be bargined with. They could know fear. Only one of those three shows any signs of being capable of that (Chaos) and any bargins they make are going to be Faustian at best.

 

I don't even think there exists anything in the Star Wars universe to come close to the raw, awesome power of things like, say... Eldar Avatars, Chaos Greater Daemons, or Necron C'tan shards. How do you necessarily propose those be stopped? Nevermind that two of those unleash constant psychic assault on everything in range - ignoring whether The Force = Psyker Ability, it's still a dedicated, constant mental assault on the minds of everyone nearby.

 

Which is also why I didn't bring up Tyranids either - Shadow in the Warp comes up any time a Synapse creature is in range of a Psyker. Because the Tyranid Synapse Creature is emitting a constant barrage of raw mental energy that demoralizes regular infantry and people. Fighting against eldritch abominations that are quite literally oozing an aura of raw terror strong and thick enough to cover an entire planet is rough, even if you are trained to deal with it. Republic soldiers had enough problems dealing with horrors like rakghouls on Taris or the Yuuzan Vong infantry, and they didn't actively unleash constant psychic assaults.

 

Imperium vs. Republic is the best case scenario the SW universe has for winning, and even then, there are comfier snowballs in the center of active volcanoes.

 

First:

*stabs foxfirega in the stumic with my lightsaber*

 

Second.

All valued argments.

 

I expect that if the nids necrions elder whatever intervene they would kick both side's side.

I never doudt the 40K troops are stronger i am just tired of the 1vs1 comparision.

In a 1vs1 coflict the only chance star wars would have is the force guiding a jedi agains impossebol odds and winning the day(aka fate and destiny) however if we are going to talk about fate and destiny we are gonne end up talking about choas gods c'tan failed god emperor's(i mean really he is that powerfull and cant regenarte his owns cells fail!!!!)

And i would end up saying the almighty kick the **** out of them on wich someone says the almighty aint real on witch i reply neiter is 40K so i wont go there.

 

Third:

If we want to have a truly interesting non my side face stomp your's converstion like most of this topic's are we need to take into acount the resourse possions location and culture off all enemies.

 

And then star wars has a chance of surviving the 40K univirse because face it even the imperium isnt winning it is surviving.

 

On the other hand is a tyranid fleet world arive on corosant i am on the first space ship out of there.

[Foxfirega]

First:

*stabs foxfirega in the stumic with my lightsaber*

 

Second.

All valued argments.

 

I expect that if the nids necrions elder whatever intervene they would kick both side's side.

I never doudt the 40K troops are stronger i am just tired of the 1vs1 comparision.

In a 1vs1 coflict the only chance star wars would have is the force guiding a jedi agains impossebol odds and winning the day(aka fate and destiny) however if we are going to talk about fate and destiny we are gonne end up talking about choas gods c'tan failed god emperor's(i mean really he is that powerfull and cant regenarte his owns cells fail!!!!)

And i would end up saying the almighty kick the **** out of them on wich someone says the almighty aint real on witch i reply neiter is 40K so i wont go there.

 

Third:

If we want to have a truly interesting non my side face stomp your's converstion like most of this topic's are we need to take into acount the resourse possions location and culture off all enemies.

 

And then star wars has a chance of surviving the 40K univirse because face it even the imperium isnt winning it is surviving.

 

On the other hand is a tyranid fleet world arive on corosant i am on the first space ship out of there.

 

;_; You know, most people don't even know what their spleen is, but I kind of liked mine.

 

Second, the thing to remember is that the Imperium isn't just surviving in the 41st milennium. They are not content to sit and be picked apart by vultures - they give as hard as they take. They are beset on all sides by things that want no more then to rip them apart, and not only do they repel all invaders... They launch counter-assaults. They fire off pre-emptive strikes. They fire full-volley into the night and don't just defend planets. They take them.

 

This is what the Imperium has been doing for more years then people can hope to recall. There is no peace in the Imperium - if there is not action going on, any legions, fleets, or battalions that are not specifically dedicated to stand idle to watch the homeland go find some. And there is an equal mix - there are entire fleets that do nothing but respond within hours of a system being hit the first time.

 

And they still have ships that they can do nothing but throw at new and unclaimed worlds, or to reclaim ones lost. Or even just to take something someone else has.

 

The Republic doesn't have that kind of history - they go in cycles of huge, sweeping galactic battles and then nothing but peace. The Imperium lives in war and feeds off conflict. They're used to losing systems, losing fights, and losing resources. That doesn't stop them. Because they cannot be stopped.

 

And these are the underdogs!

 

Don't get me wrong, I love both settings to death. But if we're taking bets on who's going to win an all-out slugfest, statistically speaking the Imperium is winning that war like they've won countless others. If not the first war, they will dominate the second.

 

I'd pay to see the Mandalorians and Orks get into a scrap, though. That would be the most brutal, epic, sprawling, knock-down, drag-out bar brawl the galaxy has ever seen or ever will see again. And it will be incredible.

[internaty]

I'd pay to see the Mandalorians and Orks get into a scrap, though. That would be the most brutal, epic, sprawling, knock-down, drag-out bar brawl the galaxy has ever seen or ever will see again. And it will be incredible.

 

So would i.

 

I yield i got no more idea's on winning from 40K other then using fate and destiny.

Edited January 3, 2012 by internaty

[CptBrit]

First of.

 

The next guy or girl calling a force user is psyker is gonne die at my lightsaber.

 

 

I don't think the majority of people are saying they are the same they are each 'Worlds' "Magic Users"

 

 

Second all the arguments are about outnumbering and single battle's.

 

Ask any really life generaly how do you beat a enemy that outnumbers and out tech you and all will say gurrila tatic's.

 

As i said befor in terms of sheer might the imperium is stronger.

 

But there isnt a single person in the entire 40K that could hope to match the jedi and sith in terms of tatic's.

 

 

You don't really understand the size and strength of the Imperium of Man in WH:40 do you? Lets go back to the worst loss of a western nation in the last 100 years to an 'inferior' force, yea its Vietnam. You really think the Americans would have lost if they could have deployed millions of men to every single battle and not given a Sh*t about losses? No. No they wouldn't have.

 

Also and this is from the Movies, the majority of the Jedi are wiped out by the Clone troopers backed up by one - I wouldn't call him Sith at this point but pretty close - Dark Jedi. Thats like the Imperial Guard destroying a couple of Space Marine Chapters for sh*ts and giggles. Gonna happen? No

 

 

The warp is darngerous to travel and you can easly get lost(without the emperor to guide humans ship they cant even warptravel without getting lost forever)

 

Hyperdrive allows you to cross the galaxie from one then till the other in a few hours.

It is relyable and works for everyone.

 

 

This is the only thing the Star Wars Galaxy has in its favour but then there are PDFs than can call on more resources and lose them than either the Republic or the Sith would be willing (The Sith would obviously be MORE willing but still) to lose in battle.

 

Lets just say the Star Wars Galaxy is going about raiding planets and such yes nice one, they go near Terra they are well and truly boned. The Planetary Defenses are written to be so huge and encompassing the Star Wars fleets would be wiped out before they got into range of Earth. Also while the raiding is going on, where are those Imperial fleets heading? Coruscant and Dromund Kaas (in the Old Republic Era ofc) yea it may take longer than the the Star Wars fleets but the Imperium loses planets daily and survives it loses MILLIONS of men daily and still exsists when they arrive you think they are going to be happy that the Imperium has lost so many planets? like I said in my last post, they better hope the fleet isn't under the command of the Black Templars!

 

 

Also you all asume it is 1vs1 fight.

You really think the nercon's tyranids elder ork's etc are gonne stop fighting the imperuim just because the galatic empire arise?

Ofcourse not.

 

 

Do you really think the Tau are gonna sit back and not try and add the Republic and the Sith to the Greater Good? Do you really think the Orks are not gonna take up the challenge of fighting against "Des puny ikkle forcey boyz" or you really think the Chaos Legions would not want to kill them just because they can?

 

You are right in part of this post though, if a Tyranid invasion became involved the Imperium would just ignore them or make peace while they responded to that. Would the Jedi or Sith not realise the damage a Tyranid fleet could do to them?

 

 

Stop talking about faction vs faction and think about it.

The imperium of man barely survive's vs all the threats if the star wars force's would invade they would just be a other faction trying to kill there pafatic excuus for a dimigod emperor.

 

 

Yea and they would fight just like they do every other foe. But you also forget the other factions also fight eachother, The Orks will just as likely kill a Tau as a Imperial Guard and will probably enjoy it more. The Eldar would detonated Coruscants Star if it saved a Craftworld.

 

Thats what is the main pull to the WH:40k universe, there is only war and every factions fights each other. They just mostly fight the Imperium of Man because its so fu*king more huge than everyone else (this is not including Orks but they are anything but united)

 

 

As for the choas powers. c'tan, force, warp etc.

If we are gonne use one shot miricals i am using my god card.

Gg i will you lose have a nice death.

 

 

The Chaos Powers/C'Tan etc although they are technically gods, they don't really have much imput in the fighting and tend to do it through massively boosted Individuals (Aka Chaos Marines raised to Daemonhood etc) and the C'Tan well they haven't woken up fully yet so lets just leave them out of it for now lol

 

Really like I have mentioned the power levels at play are are soooo massively different its just an unfair fight and thats putting it nicely. The Imperial Guard Numbers in its billions and although they won't be a good as say the regular ground forces or the Republic or Empire (and i'm just guessing here but i'll give those Stormtroopers who die to glorified Care bears the benefit of the doubt) the Kasrkins and Stormtroopers of the Imperium will be more than a match for the Troopers or Special forces of the Republic and Empire and thats not even bringing Space Marines - you know the guys who can take a bullet to the head even if it somehow manages to penetrate their Helmet sometimes survive - or the Terminators or if you really want to get "GG Republic/Sith Empire you got PWNED!" in a land war Titan Legions.

 

The Star Wars universe WOULD win some early battles but as soon as the Imperial fleets drop out of Orbit over Coruscant/Dromund Kaas its over.

 

Man that was long but still it needed to even though its all been mentioned be said. Also Sorry if this sounds like I'm talking to you like a piece of sh*t, i've gone to work this morning and got fully wet-through head to toe within 45 seconds. I'm kinda in a bad mood but that ain't you fault Just thought I'd clear that up

Edited January 3, 2012 by CptBrit

[Foxfirega]

the C'Tan well they haven't woken up fully yet so lets just leave them out of it for now lol

 

Well...

 

 

The C'tan are all effectively dead, with what little power they have left enslaved to the will of the Overlords. They staged a coup and broke their own gods, binding them into 'shards' that are at best just roiling masses of power that can only really exhibit one or two facets of a full C'tan.

 

 

Honestly, I thought that was one of the bigger 'Oh snap' reveals in the new Necron stuff..

[CptBrit]

Well...

Honestly, I thought that was one of the bigger 'Oh snap' reveals in the new Necron stuff..

 

Ha! I bet the Necron players/fluff lovers loved that bit of fluff!

[internaty]

I don't think the majority of people are saying they are the same they are each 'Worlds' "Magic Users"

 

 

 

You don't really understand the size and strength of the Imperium of Man in WH:40 do you? Lets go back to the worst loss of a western nation in the last 100 years to an 'inferior' force, yea its Vietnam. You really think the Americans would have lost if they could have deployed millions of men to every single battle and not given a Sh*t about losses? No. No they wouldn't have.

 

Also and this is from the Movies, the majority of the Jedi are wiped out by the Clone troopers backed up by one - I wouldn't call him Sith at this point but pretty close - Dark Jedi. Thats like the Imperial Guard destroying a couple of Space Marine Chapters for sh*ts and giggles. Gonna happen? No

 

 

 

This is the only thing the Star Wars Galaxy has in its favour but then there are PDFs than can call on more resources and lose them than either the Republic or the Sith would be willing (The Sith would obviously be MORE willing but still) to lose in battle.

 

Lets just say the Star Wars Galaxy is going about raiding planets and such yes nice one, they go near Terra they are well and truly boned. The Planetary Defenses are written to be so huge and encompassing the Star Wars fleets would be wiped out before they got into range of Earth. Also while the raiding is going on, where are those Imperial fleets heading? Coruscant and Dromund Kaas (in the Old Republic Era ofc) yea it may take longer than the the Star Wars fleets but the Imperium loses planets daily and survives it loses MILLIONS of men daily and still exsists when they arrive you think they are going to be happy that the Imperium has lost so many planets? like I said in my last post, they better hope the fleet isn't under the command of the Black Templars!

 

 

 

Do you really think the Tau are gonna sit back and not try and add the Republic and the Sith to the Greater Good? Do you really think the Orks are not gonna take up the challenge of fighting against "Des puny ikkle forcey boyz" or you really think the Chaos Legions would not want to kill them just because they can?

 

You are right in part of this post though, if a Tyranid invasion became involved the Imperium would just ignore them or make peace while they responded to that. Would the Jedi or Sith not realise the damage a Tyranid fleet could do to them?

 

 

 

Yea and they would fight just like they do every other foe. But you also forget the other factions also fight eachother, The Orks will just as likely kill a Tau as a Imperial Guard and will probably enjoy it more. The Eldar would detonated Coruscants Star if it saved a Craftworld.

 

Thats what is the main pull to the WH:40k universe, there is only war and every factions fights each other. They just mostly fight the Imperium of Man because its so fu*king more huge than everyone else (this is not including Orks but they are anything but united)

 

 

 

The Chaos Powers/C'Tan etc although they are technically gods, they don't really have much imput in the fighting and tend to do it through massively boosted Individuals (Aka Chaos Marines raised to Daemonhood etc) and the C'Tan well they haven't woken up fully yet so lets just leave them out of it for now lol

 

Really like I have mentioned the power levels at play are are soooo massively different its just an unfair fight and thats putting it nicely. The Imperial Guard Numbers in its billions and although they won't be a good as say the regular ground forces or the Republic or Empire (and i'm just guessing here but i'll give those Stormtroopers who die to glorified Care bears the benefit of the doubt) the Kasrkins and Stormtroopers of the Imperium will be more than a match for the Troopers or Special forces of the Republic and Empire and thats not even bringing Space Marines - you know the guys who can take a bullet to the head even if it somehow manages to penetrate their Helmet sometimes survive - or the Terminators or if you really want to get "GG Republic/Sith Empire you got PWNED!" in a land war Titan Legions.

 

The Star Wars universe WOULD win some early battles but as soon as the Imperial fleets drop out of Orbit over Coruscant/Dromund Kaas its over.

 

Man that was long but still it needed to even though its all been mentioned be said. Also Sorry if this sounds like I'm talking to you like a piece of sh*t, i've gone to work this morning and got fully wet-through head to toe within 45 seconds. I'm kinda in a bad mood but that ain't you fault Just thought I'd clear that up

 

I am not offended.

I am just trying to give star wars a chance.

 

because face it unless i play the raven card(Aka destined to overcome all enemies) they dont stand a chance.

 

And as i said befor unless i play some unfair they are destined to win card they cant.

 

I mean the only way for the jedi to beat the imperium of man is if there is a jedi destinted to kill the god emperor and beat the imperium.

 

But that would be so overboard we might as while say:

 

God almighty himself came to tarra killed everyone(including the god emperor) then when into the warp and butchered the chaos gods and then when on to exterminated the tyranids and the nercon's.

 

Somehow i find that more believebol then a single jedi killing every space marine and imperial gaurd protecting the emperor.

[CptBrit]

I am not offended.

I am just trying to give star wars a chance.

 

because face it unless i play the raven card(Aka destined to overcome all enemies) they dont stand a chance.

 

And as i said befor unless i play some unfair they are destined to win card they cant.

 

I mean the only way for the jedi to beat the imperium of man is if there is a jedi destinted to kill the god emperor and beat the imperium.

 

But that would be so overboard we might as while say:

 

God almighty himself came to tarra killed everyone(including the god emperor) then when into the warp and butchered the chaos gods and then when on to exterminated the tyranids and the nercon's.

 

Somehow i find that more believebol then a single jedi killing every space marine and imperial gaurd protecting the emperor.

 

I've tried in my head to give Star Wars a chance - It may not seem like it from my post lol - but the only thing I can see going for the Star Wars Galaxy is Hyperdrive and thats only in the short term

 

To be honest it would be more interesting to see if the Force could resist Chaos - I know they are each others equivalents in fluff but they are kinda different - the Inquisition would be very VERY interested if it could make Force using Grey Knights for instance and I think some Mandalorians would fit really well with some Chapters of Space Marines but then we are going down a really ungodly route that neither WH:40k Fanboys or SW Fanboys will be happy about lol

Edited January 3, 2012 by CptBrit

[Foxfirega]

I've tried in my head to give Star Wars a chance - It may not seem like it from my post lol - but the only thing I can see going for the Star Wars Galaxy is Hyperdrive and thats only in the short term

 

To be honest it would be more interesting to see if the Force could resist Chaos - I know they are each others equivalents in fluff but they are kinda different - the Inquisition would be very VERY interested if it could make Force using Grey Knights for instance and I think some Mandalorians would fit really well with some Chapters of Space Marines but then we are going down a really ungodly route that neither WH:40k Fanboys or SW Fanboys will be happy about lol

 

I dunno, I think it'd be hilarious to see the absurd lengths the Adeptus Mechanicus would go to in order to get a hold of some of the tech the Republic has.

 

And the people that have the ability to like. Make new blueprints. Foul sorcery, that - must get to them before the Inquisition does and declares it heresy.

 

I mean, the sublight and hyperdrive tech alone would be such a huge strategic advantage for the Imperium if they could figure out how to get their hands on it and reproduce it ("What do you mean there's no machine spirit?!").

 

Still, I wouldn't want to be on any of those planets... Arks Mechanicus appearing in orbit is the worst nightmare of any planet in the Imperium for good reason. An entire ship geared with absolutely nothing but the best of the best the Mechanicus can produce. The databanks of the Jedi Temple or the Republic Library on Coruscant may be considered as good or close enough to the Standard Template Construct (the holy grail of the Cult) that getting them intact and at all costs may be priority one.

 

I honestly don't even want to speculate what kind of crazy stuff an Ark would drop on a planet. Or what a full scale invasion/recon strike by the Mechanicus would look like. It's scary.

 

The Mandalorians would also likely be prime 'recruit' material for Space Marine chapters. I imagine they would also gladly accept a lot of the candidates that the Marines throw back (those few rare Initiates that survive anyway), or similarly recruit from the same areas. They'd probably have a good chance of surviving the sheer amount of augments needed (which is where most initiates die), too.

[CptBrit]

I dunno, I think it'd be hilarious to see the absurd lengths the Adeptus Mechanicus would go to in order to get a hold of some of the tech the Republic has.

 

And the people that have the ability to like. Make new blueprints. Foul sorcery, that - must get to them before the Inquisition does and declares it heresy.

 

I mean, the sublight and hyperdrive tech alone would be such a huge strategic advantage for the Imperium if they could figure out how to get their hands on it and reproduce it ("What do you mean there's no machine spirit?!").

 

Still, I wouldn't want to be on any of those planets... Arks Mechanicus appearing in orbit is the worst nightmare of any planet in the Imperium for good reason. An entire ship geared with absolutely nothing but the best of the best the Mechanicus can produce. The databanks of the Jedi Temple or the Republic Library on Coruscant may be considered as good or close enough to the Standard Template Construct (the holy grail of the Cult) that getting them intact and at all costs may be priority one.

 

I honestly don't even want to speculate what kind of crazy stuff an Ark would drop on a planet. Or what a full scale invasion/recon strike by the Mechanicus would look like. It's scary.

 

The Mandalorians would also likely be prime 'recruit' material for Space Marine chapters. I imagine they would also gladly accept a lot of the candidates that the Marines throw back (those few rare Initiates that survive anyway), or similarly recruit from the same areas. They'd probably have a good chance of surviving the sheer amount of augments needed (which is where most initiates die), too.

 

I never actually thought of that. Just Hyperdrive would give the Imperium such a crazy advantage in wars with the other Races. Yea I think the Adeptus Mechanicus would just magic one up, AKA bullsh*t for such an advantage. As they do research Eldar and Tau tech but under the close eye of the Inquisition (and no where near as efficient as the Tau).

 

I'd be more worried if I was on a planet that happened to be majority non-human. The fire throwing, Emperor loving, alien HATING Sisters of Battle or any of the more 'Conservative' (AKA Not having a drop of mercy towards Aliens or Humans who put up with Aliens) of the Space Marine Chapters. But yea the Mechanicus doesn't really mess about when it comes to anything that is remotely close to a STC, thousands if not millions of men that make the Cybernetics of some Sith Lord seem pathetic.

 

The 'Human' Mandalorians would likely be the only true winners in an encounter like this as they would be "Snatched up" by one of the more prominent Space Marine Chapters. No alot of the older warriors might not be able to become Space Marines (Though i'd imagine there would be some worthy warriors that some chapters might try it with). The youth though would be very popular and those too old to undergo the process of becoming a Space Marine could still be equipped with some of the best equipment the Imperium has to offer to work as support forces/PDFs.

Edited January 3, 2012 by CptBrit

[Archereon]

While SW likely wouldn't beat the Imperium, I think it would stand a decent chance of surviving much like the Tau do in the 40k galaxy, particularly since their vastly superior FTL would make them an EXTREME pain in the *** to invade. While the Imperium has countless trillions of soldiers compared to the "a few trillion" that SW has, the sheer brutality of 40k means that only a small fraction of their forces could be committed to attack at any given time, and the Imperium's sheer size would help shield SW from the many threats a civilization faces in 40k much like it does for the Tau. Add in the possibility of Alliance with the Tau (since even the Galactic Empire is willing to work with aliens when it benefits them), which would likely give the Tau access to hyperdrive technology, and I could definitely see SW surviving.

 

Plus, people are really underestimating the maneuverability advantage that SW has. Assming that 40k ships and Star Wars ships are equal in terms of power, or at least that 40k ships wouldn't lolwtfpwninstantvaporize SW ships, each SW ship would be worth a large number of 40k ships in terms of the damage they could do.

 

SW in 40k would be capable of striking without warning against the Imperium just about anywhere, and if we're talking about the Empire those targets would likely be the Agri worlds supporting Forge and Hive worlds in the Empire's vicinity, which would cripple the worlds that would the most likely to have free assets that could be deployed against SW in a timely manner.

 

And finally, Warp travel is really, really unreliable, to the point where ships that jump together rarely arrive at the same time. While this isn't a problem in 40k except against Eldar and Necrons, who don't have the numbers or industrial support (or in the case of the Necrons, most of those numbers and industries are dormant) to fight in a sustained battle, this would definitely be a problem against SW.

 

Say generic space marine chapter #299 is deployed against the Imperial world of whateverland.

 

Battle barge something exits the warp ahead of schedule, and finds itself alone against hundreds of Star Destroyers.

 

Spess Mehreens (paraphrased): "WHAT THE ****!?" *boom* and there goes a third of the chapter.

 

And I'm not sure the Ad Mech would reverse engineer hyperdrives, considering how heretical the prospect of widespread adoption of "xenotech" would be.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Archereon

[BenjaminminU]

I've got to say star wars, just because the death star would just blow up any planet from warhammer. Plus there is also the star forge capable of creating an infinate armada and the sith emperor who can suck the life from an entire planet or just make the enemies swear loyalty to him. Different time periods I know but if everyone from star wars vs everyone from warhammer it would be all time periods at once.

[Mograth]

Well...

 

Death Star Vs Exterminatus.

 

I wonder who can reduce more planets to bricks before the jug is up?

[Wiggletphyre]

I've got to say star wars, just because the death star would just blow up any planet from warhammer. Plus there is also the star forge capable of creating an infinate armada and the sith emperor who can suck the life from an entire planet or just make the enemies swear loyalty to him. Different time periods I know but if everyone from star wars vs everyone from warhammer it would be all time periods at once.

 

The emperor would probably be controlled by some Chaos god like Khore or Tzeentch making him think it are his own actions >.>

 

Besides the WH40K empire wouldnt even care that you blew up a planet or 2 they got plenty of planets anyways

Edited January 3, 2012 by Wiggletphyre

[Foxfirega]

While SW likely wouldn't beat the Imperium, I think it would stand a decent chance of surviving much like the Tau do in the 40k galaxy, particularly since their vastly superior FTL would make them an EXTREME pain in the *** to invade. While the Imperium has countless trillions of soldiers compared to the "a few trillion" that SW has, the sheer brutality of 40k means that only a small fraction of their forces could be committed to attack at any given time, and the Imperium's sheer size would help shield SW from the many threats a civilization faces in 40k much like it does for the Tau. Add in the possibility of Alliance with the Tau (since even the Galactic Empire is willing to work with aliens when it benefits them), which would likely give the Tau access to hyperdrive technology, and I could definitely see SW surviving.

 

Problems I'm going to flag here: 1) Planets are stationary, and the Imperium regularly fields things that could be classified as space stations (a standard Imperium cruiser is 7-8 kilometers long and bristling with weaponary, in addition to having some incredibly resilient shields and thick plating). 2) They don't have 'vastly superior' FTL. They have more reliable FTL. The speed of the two is equivlant - the only reason it takes so long to get from the Core to the Outer Worlds in 40k is because the distance crossed is significantly greater. 3) The Tau hold their own because they have vastly superior firearms and shielding then anyone else in the entire galaxy. Technology is their thing. The Star Wars universe has nowhere near the technological advancement it needs to compete, at all, with anyone in the 40k universe except Orks (who they beat up, down, left, and right) and Tyranids (who don't use technology in the first place). 4) The Imperium can supply things in bulk, and when it proves necessary, often does because they can afford to.

 

Plus, people are really underestimating the maneuverability advantage that SW has. Assming that 40k ships and Star Wars ships are equal in terms of power, or at least that 40k ships wouldn't lolwtfpwninstantvaporize SW ships, each SW ship would be worth a large number of 40k ships in terms of the damage they could do.

 

SW in 40k would be capable of striking without warning against the Imperium just about anywhere, and if we're talking about the Empire those targets would likely be the Agri worlds supporting Forge and Hive worlds in the Empire's vicinity, which would cripple the worlds that would the most likely to have free assets that could be deployed against SW in a timely manner.

 

Problems in the argument: The Imperium lacks the speed. However, they have as good or superior tracking technology, vastly superior range (space battles in Star Wars are absurdly close affairs; the Imperium regularly engages at two to three times the standard distance that Star Wars deals with), and vastly superior firepower (even their ships that have equivlant sizes in the Star Wars universe - Escort Frigates and Star Destroyers at 1..6km long have generally more and better cannons, in addition to being supplied with anti-capital ship grade torpedoes and missles). I'm not going to argue that the SW ships can run circles around the Imperium, because they can. I don't think it will matter for a whole lot in space battles, because they're outnumbered and outgunned from the get-go. They're going to need that speed just to hope to compete, and that's assuming their weaponary can actually do any damage.

 

And then there's the fact that space battles in 40k regularly include brutal boarding actions, whereas in Star Wars it's a lot less common (because of the higher speeds, it's a lot trickier to actually pull off. Lucas got that part mostly right). High-speed boarding is what most people are trained for in the Imperium.

 

And finally, Warp travel is really, really unreliable, to the point where ships that jump together rarely arrive at the same time. While this isn't a problem in 40k except against Eldar and Necrons, who don't have the numbers or industrial support (or in the case of the Necrons, most of those numbers and industries are dormant) to fight in a sustained battle, this would definitely be a problem against SW.

 

Say generic space marine chapter #299 is deployed against the Imperial world of whateverland.

 

Battle barge something exits the warp ahead of schedule, and finds itself alone against hundreds of Star Destroyers.

 

Battle Barges are roughly the size of the Super Star Destroyer, are designed to take absurd amounts of punishments to support planetary bombardment/troop deployment by ignoring or breaking planetary defenses at close range, and includes up to four Exterminatus-grade weapons of some variety (from cyclonic torpedoes to virus bombs). Hundreds of what they consider support craft aren't even going to make the Astartes blink, and while their will be some damage done, they will give far better then they take. That's freakin' Tuesday for them, because like most people in the 40k universe that rely on Warp technology they take that stuff into account in the first place. That's exactly why the Imperium builds such large ships, and usually make far shorter hops (jumping to neighboring systems first, and then to the target system when possible).

 

And I'm not sure the Ad Mech would reverse engineer hyperdrives, considering how heretical the prospect of widespread adoption of "xenotech" would be.

 

At worst, they would just archive them and make the next Arks Mechanicus with vastly superior engines. At best, they would be able to convince the rest of the Imperium rather easily that faster ships = huge advantage = good plan and push through protoypes faster. The Mechancius use 'xenotech' all the time, however, and it would just make the Techpriests of Mars even more deadlier then they already are. Besides, I doubt it'd stop them from jacking the data all the same.

[CptBrit]

Star Wars apparent points of Win

 

I'm just gonna answer in points as i'm a lot busier at work today than yesterday.

 

1. The Tau are only alive do to plot armour, the Imperium of Man was ready to wipe it out before the Tyranid Hive fleet (Forget the name) appeared on the scene and they needed to respond to that. Yes if the Tyranids hadn't shown up excellent Tau Weaponary would have ***** the Imperial Guard but this isn't TT the Space Marines are more than a match for the Fire Warriors and the Imperial Guard make a good meatshield for the Space Marines to advance.

 

2. WH:40k Ships would Own SW ships in a fight, yes the SW ships would be faster but you can only win wars by attacking, no amount of running away will win you wars of conquest. Look at it like this. Blue Team has a Battleship, Red Team has a Frigate. They both need to capture each others ports, Now Blue team's Battleship can't hope to catch Red Team's Frigate but Red Team's Frigate can't hope to fight Blue Team's Battleship. They both need to capture and hold one port/dockyard/planet, You can't defend a planet by hitting and running planet defense is by its very nature static yes you can move defenses but not a planet. Once Blue Team's Battleship is defending the port/dockyard/planet Red Team's Frigate doesn't have a chance of taking and holding. Blue Team Wins.

 

3. The Tau wouldn't work with the Sith, They aren't goodie two-shoes the Tau you know. They are just a dim light in an otherwise Dark Galaxy. The Tau ending to Dark Crusade (Which is cannon!) says it all. They would demand obedience from the Sith Empire, is that gonna happen?

 

4. Also the Republic and Empire probably between them couldn't put together a couple of billion troops well maybe if they were as militerised as the Imperium of Man but even the Empire isn't even close. In SWTOR the Republic is in a stalemate with Rebels! They had their home planet ***** by the Sith who then wanted peace because even they were getting dragged into a stalemate. As its been said the Imperial Guard can lose billions in a single crusade and replace them.

 

5. Its been said but SW Ships and the Imperium's ships aren't equal. It goes down to this SW ships Hyperdrive and Sublight engines.The Imperium's ships are better at everything else. Size, Weaponary, Shielding, Armour. I know it was just a plot hole for the Rebels to win in the films but the biggest baddest weapon in SW - the Death Star of course - was taken out by a single bomb from a fighter bomber. GG!. Also the only 'Ship' in Star Wars lore that could contend with anything the Imperium could field would be a Super Star Destroyer and how many did the Empire have again? and were they in the Old Republic?

 

6. As I said in my other post, while the Republic and Empire are raiding thousands of worlds - lets just say they had the logistics and strategic mindset to pull this off - what are they going to do when a full Battlefleet appears over their Capital Worlds? Are their enough troops on Coruscant or Dromund Kaas to stop, millions upon millions of Lasguns? Not to mention 7-8 foot tall Jugganauts of Armour plated ownage landing behind their front lines butchering soldiers left right and centre.

 

7. Space Marine Battle barges don't just warp alone they are backed up by their own fleet and if they are on a crusade the Imperial Navy. Also in fluff how many Battle Barges have been lost to the warp? It can't be that many can it? Short Jumps are your friend.

 

In a nutshell even with all the advantages of the Imperium, I think the SW galaxy would earn some victories but like I said before only until the Battlefleets appeared above their Homeworlds. The Imperium has more planets, more soldiers, more resources, better Special forces in higher numbers - there are around a million Space Marines the most ****** soldiers created for Sci-Fi - and thats not even including Kasrkins and Stormtroopers or the Sisters of Battle. The SW Universe has faster ships and the force, and the force didn't help that much against an army of Clone Troopers did it?

Edited January 4, 2012 by CptBrit

[Archereon]

Exterminatus wouldn't really work on critical planets and critical locations on important planets in the SW universe, because of planetary shields, which, in the EU, is the reason a single star destroyer can't just jump right above the rebel base and roflstomp, among other things (ion cannons ans such). Same thing happened at Hoth, and the Empire had to deploy ground forces. In the EU, the reason the Death Star was such a gamebreaker is that its main gun was powerful enough to penetrate planetary shields and then some (like the entire freaking planet).

 

In 40k, most Agri worlds, which feed the Imperium's population and manufacturing centers (Hive and Forge worlds) are not particularly well defended. Additionally, intrasystem warp travel is generally not economical nor practical in 40k, whereas in SW it happens all the time, meaning a hypothetical star destroyer fleet could sterilize the planet and be gone before any Imperium forces showed up to retaliate.

 

And I don't see why 40k travel is as fast as hyperdrives, distances in 40k travel are significantly greater? Is the SW galaxy a lot smaller than the milky way or something? In SW, traveling from one end of the galaxy to the other in days-months (depending on the EU iteration). A Journey from the Solar Arm of the galaxy to the farther parts of the Eastern fringe can take decades if not centuries in 40k if I'm correct.

 

In terms of absolute border size, the Republic and Empire aren't actually that much smaller than the Imperium, the Imperium is just much much much much more densely populated.

 

Btw, I still don't see why everyone keeps matching up the spess mehreens with Stormtroopers? A Stormtrooper is the SW equivalent of an Imperial guardsman, who damn better get his *** handed to him in pieces by a marine, else that guardsman is a complete ****** or that marine just plain fails. I'd actually hazard that Stormtroopers are superior to Guardsmen for a variety of reasons. First of which is that they're quite a bit braver (being clones bred for fearlessness helps). Before you say anything, Guardsmen in pretty much all 40k media that doesn't star them tend to run at the first sign of trouble, and promptly get shot by any commissars in the area. They also aren't portrayed as the sharpest tools in the shed. In contrast, stormtroopers are fearless, incapable of disobedience, bred and raised for war, ect.

[austringer]

All through the colicoid missions I was having tyranid flashbacks!

[Amaste]

There are 20 guys in every Space Marine chapter that could wreck face with Starkiller in hand-to-hand combat, and pull off just as many cool tricks in the middle of a fight. And those aren't even the legendary Psykers.

 

Factor in that every Power Weapon (standard issue to Librarians and Inquisitors, and common enough on even seargents in the Guard) generates a field of raw, destructive power (sound familiar? It's like a lightsaber with a cruncy candy center), and in addition to just plain having raw mass that lightsabers lack, is likely being swung by a 7' tall genetic demigod that may or may not be using his psychic gifts (if he has them) to amplify himself to insane levels. And he's likely wearing armor that makes counter-attacks unlikely.

 

Each Librarian is also equipped with a device that does nothing but allows them to completely shut down anyone trying to use psychic powers in their vicinity, and they're personally 'iron will' personified. Factor in multiple redundant vital organs, and even some new ones (acidic blood, venomous spit - I'm dead serious, too, these are STANDARD Space Marine augmentations), and are trained specifically to fight not only physical threats but daemonic/psychic threats as routine...

 

These are people that are born, bred, armed, and trained to literally live in combat every single moment and devote their lives to it.

 

The Sun Crusher would only be an issue due to the superior sublight engines. However, it's one ship - the Imperium has thousands of ships on-par or vastly superior to the Death Star that are more then happy to go from planet to planet, unleashing orbital bombardments that make Taris look like a fireworks festival. Most Imperium ships are also designed to deal with far heavier ordinance then their Star Wars counterparts are - and by extension, they're used to having to put out more. While somewhat 'indestructible' in the SW universe, something like a conversion beamer (that does nothing but convert matter into raw energy upon impact - the tougher and more dense the material targeted, the bigger the energy release) would settle the matter Sun Crusher definatively.

 

And none of this is exactly 'uncommon' stuff.

 

If it was going directly into a fight then yes, I would agree. However the Suncrusher was designed to slip into a star system, shoot a missile into the core of the center star and leave the system hours before the supernova consumed the planets in it's way. If it was seen or stopped it would be doing something wrong.

 

/shrug it's all up to interpretation. I don't know much about 40k admitedly, but it does sound like something I'd be interested in. ^_^

[Foxfirega]

Exterminatus wouldn't really work on critical planets and critical locations on important planets in the SW universe, because of planetary shields, which, in the EU, is the reason a single star destroyer can't just jump right above the rebel base and roflstomp, among other things (ion cannons ans such). Same thing happened at Hoth, and the Empire had to deploy ground forces. In the EU, the reason the Death Star was such a gamebreaker is that its main gun was powerful enough to penetrate planetary shields and then some (like the entire freaking planet).

 

In 40k, most Agri worlds, which feed the Imperium's population and manufacturing centers (Hive and Forge worlds) are not particularly well defended. Additionally, intrasystem warp travel is generally not economical nor practical in 40k, whereas in SW it happens all the time, meaning a hypothetical star destroyer fleet could sterilize the planet and be gone before any Imperium forces showed up to retaliate.

 

Planetary shields can be circumvented or broken through - the Imperium is very well-versed in forcefield technology as they employ a lot of it, up to and including similar or better mastery in some areas (particularly in the man-portable brand; planetary shields were somewhat rarer though and typically only used for specific, important planets. Individual installations, however, can and would be shielded as necessary). I don't think that's anywhere near as solid an advantage as you're professing it is, otherwise The Clone Wars would have gone a bit different, let alone the current war scenario. It's also worth noting that Imperial Planetary Ground Defenses are vastly superior and more then capable of just blasting things out of orbit (as ships in Star Wars have to move slower in atmosphere).

 

And I don't see why 40k travel is as fast as hyperdrives, distances in 40k travel are significantly greater? Is the SW galaxy a lot smaller than the milky way or something? In SW, traveling from one end of the galaxy to the other in days-months (depending on the EU iteration). A Journey from the Solar Arm of the galaxy to the farther parts of the Eastern fringe can take decades if not centuries in 40k if I'm correct.

 

Rogue Trader states that the longest possible trip (this isn't done for a number of reasons) is about 50,000 light years. The longest 'standard' trip is ~5,000 light years (incredibly uncommon and still dangerous), with 'safe' distances being about 5-10 light years. Giving a time estimate is tricky, though on average 1 day in the Warp is equal to 12 days in real-time (your mileage can and likely will vary), and most smaller jumps are nigh-instantaneous. It's hard to get an exact approximation on speed with so many variables, though. :U

 

Trying to get a more 'definative' definition on hyperspace travel was kind of hard (as it varies so much it's insane - for something so reliable, people sure aren't very clear on how it works with any hope of consistency) with a distance of about 5,000LY taking ~16 hours give or take obstacles. That's equivlant to one long trip or a few hundred smaller trips in 40k, closer to 2-3 days (if you're lucky - if you're extremely lucky, you may even show up there before you made the first jump).

 

So it could mostly be poor documentation leading to user error on my part, but the speed advantage even there isn't as great as people are making it out to be either. :U I'm willing to take fault for the issue, though.

 

In terms of absolute border size, the Republic and Empire aren't actually that much smaller than the Imperium, the Imperium is just much much much much more densely populated.

 

Milky Way is ~120,000 light years across (the Imperium of Man is implied to own all of the Milky Way, and segments of other neighboring galaxies as well). There's debate on if the Star Wars universe is 120,000 light years or thereabouts or not as sources vary (though most agree). However, the problem is that the Imperium is densely populated. Not all planets are part of the Republic or the Empire, especially as one gets farther away from the Galactic Core, and not all planets are inhabited. In the Imperium, almost every planet that's not outright dead (and even those can be used), held by another species, or outright impossible to live on (again, the Imperium even lives on some of those - Catachan makes for a great winter visit, I hear) are not only inhabited, but fully utilized as much as possible.

 

The Imperium has more people, more manpower, more resources, because they own all the marbles instead of a large amount of them and getting lip-service from the rest. It's an important distinction, and it makes them functionally 'larger' then either the Republic or Empire.

 

Btw, I still don't see why everyone keeps matching up the spess mehreens with Stormtroopers? A Stormtrooper is the SW equivalent of an Imperial guardsman, who damn better get his *** handed to him in pieces by a marine, else that guardsman is a complete ****** or that marine just plain fails. I'd actually hazard that Stormtroopers are superior to Guardsmen for a variety of reasons. First of which is that they're quite a bit braver (being clones bred for fearlessness helps). Before you say anything, Guardsmen in pretty much all 40k media that doesn't star them tend to run at the first sign of trouble, and promptly get shot by any commissars in the area. They also aren't portrayed as the sharpest tools in the shed. In contrast, stormtroopers are fearless, incapable of disobedience, bred and raised for war, ect.

 

Stormtroopers are only superior in that their armor is actually powered to an extent and they get actual training. However, that puts them (at best) on par with the Imperium's own stormtroopers (who are elite cadres of Guardsmen with some of the better equipment or training that the Guard has to offer) or Imperial Guard Veterans (which are fairly common and on top of being competent, actually get better equipment as well). Republic/Empire Stormtroopers, however, aren't fearless or incapable of disobedience. They're people, just like everyone else. They also don't include ENTIRELY clones since Kamino's loss, and by the time of the Rebellion era were already starting to include non-Cloned troopers as a rule. Even the clones had real human emotions, and motivations - up to and including defection and insubordination.

 

I agree that they're a bad comparison to the Space Marines, though, who are quite literally the perfect warriors Humanity can genetically create and outfit.

[internaty]

Exterminatus wouldn't really work on critical planets and critical locations on important planets in the SW universe, because of planetary shields, which, in the EU, is the reason a single star destroyer can't just jump right above the rebel base and roflstomp, among other things (ion cannons ans such). Same thing happened at Hoth, and the Empire had to deploy ground forces. In the EU, the reason the Death Star was such a gamebreaker is that its main gun was powerful enough to penetrate planetary shields and then some (like the entire freaking planet).

 

In 40k, most Agri worlds, which feed the Imperium's population and manufacturing centers (Hive and Forge worlds) are not particularly well defended. Additionally, intrasystem warp travel is generally not economical nor practical in 40k, whereas in SW it happens all the time, meaning a hypothetical star destroyer fleet could sterilize the planet and be gone before any Imperium forces showed up to retaliate.

 

And I don't see why 40k travel is as fast as hyperdrives, distances in 40k travel are significantly greater? Is the SW galaxy a lot smaller than the milky way or something? In SW, traveling from one end of the galaxy to the other in days-months (depending on the EU iteration). A Journey from the Solar Arm of the galaxy to the farther parts of the Eastern fringe can take decades if not centuries in 40k if I'm correct.

 

In terms of absolute border size, the Republic and Empire aren't actually that much smaller than the Imperium, the Imperium is just much much much much more densely populated.

 

Btw, I still don't see why everyone keeps matching up the spess mehreens with Stormtroopers? A Stormtrooper is the SW equivalent of an Imperial guardsman, who damn better get his *** handed to him in pieces by a marine, else that guardsman is a complete ****** or that marine just plain fails. I'd actually hazard that Stormtroopers are superior to Guardsmen for a variety of reasons. First of which is that they're quite a bit braver (being clones bred for fearlessness helps). Before you say anything, Guardsmen in pretty much all 40k media that doesn't star them tend to run at the first sign of trouble, and promptly get shot by any commissars in the area. They also aren't portrayed as the sharpest tools in the shed. In contrast, stormtroopers are fearless, incapable of disobedience, bred and raised for war, ect.

 

All very good points and i like to add one more:

The rebel alliance was vastly smaller then the galatic empire.

They where outgunt outteched and outmatch and still they beat the empire(ok luke did but still)

 

So anyone who said the imperium would win because it is bigger has failed.

Edited January 4, 2012 by internaty

[Foxfirega]

If it was going directly into a fight then yes, I would agree. However the Suncrusher was designed to slip into a star system, shoot a missile into the core of the center star and leave the system hours before the supernova consumed the planets in it's way. If it was seen or stopped it would be doing something wrong.

 

/shrug it's all up to interpretation. I don't know much about 40k admitedly, but it does sound like something I'd be interested in. ^_^

 

Two words - conversion beamer. If it got caught (and because the FTL engines used in SW are so reliable, they're far easier to predict), chances are it's 'impenetrable' armor would be it's downfall.

 

A conversion beamer does nothing more then convert any matter it comes into contact with directly into energy - the more dense and tougher the material it hits, the bigger the resulting energy wash and explosion. If aware of a ship that would necessitate it's use, the Imperium wouldn't have any qualms about laying in wait with a ship outfitted for just such an occasion.

 

The standard Imperial cruiser 'lance' weapon also makes a mockery of anything short of Imperial Battleship armor, and even those feel the hurt. Given Imperial battleships are nigh-invulnerable to anything short of extreme massed fire or other Imperial battleships (that coincedentally have extreme massed firepower and lance weapons), I don't think the Sun Crusher would fare well under a direct hit.

 

That gives the only advantage it has being speed, and with it being predictable... I don't think it would matter at all. Because it really is just one ship - putting your only hope of survival in one ship is a poor policy.

[Bekkal]

40k has Orks. Orks never lose (canonical fact).

 

40k wins in a ghastly (awesome) war of attrition.