Star Wars vs WH40K

[TheThiazi]

there is no contest of any form between the two, other than fan base. Its not even a fair comparsion

 

Technology - 40k wins.

 

Light sabres cant parry explosions. Bolters fire exploding rounds.

Blasters are at best equilvent to lasguns, hello power armor lets not even talk about terminator or artifictor armor.

 

Force/Psychic powers

force users shoot lighting and choke people. Libarians suck out your soul, and you cease to exisit.

 

jedi's wear robes, space marines captins where iron halos. Iron halos can stop the deathstar, robes wont stop a rock.

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm going to have to agree with the purple text guy.

 

A Star Wars blaster is more akin to a WH40k plasma weapon. If Sith armor can stop plasma, that's impressive, but that which stops plasma does not necessarily stop bolter fire.

 

A bolter round is a rocket. A tiny, self-propelled explosive warhead and explodes slightly after penetration.

 

It acts like a hollow-point on crack.

 

This was a weapon made to fight xenos. Alien races capable of taking extreme damage, such as Orks and Tyranids. These weapons are made to shred bodies into pulp.

 

There has actually been a weapon invented that can show, somewhat, what a bolter is capable of.

 

 

This is an automatic shotgun that can fire small ballistically propelled rockets, as you'll see from the video.

 

Now, a bolter's rounds have their own rockets on them AND explode with a force several orders of magnitude higher than the ones in that video.

 

A bolter pistol is a smaller weapon, used in one hand, that fires similarly powerful rounds.

 

A storm bolter is basically two bolters taped together.

 

And a heavy bolter is one held like a chaingun that fires larger bolter rounds at a higher rate of fire.

 

Even if the armor could prevent initial penetration of the round, the resulting explosive force would shatter ribs, bruise lungs and rupture organs.

 

Yup, pretty much my thoughts, but just an FYI it's Purple text girl, not guy.

[tadro]

Battle Meditation? even against the Imperial Guard would not work, they have commissars in their army that literally state, go and die or I kill you now, take a pick, they are literally the Soviets, against any other 40K force it would be useless.

 

And a Primarch would stomp Grand Master Luke, you realise just their swords are like Thor's hammer, the system Luke is in can literally just be obliterated.

 

Bolter fire is nothing like blaster fire, it's a mini hand grenade in the shape of a bullet, that fires rapidly, Space Marines are 8 foot tall machines with massive weaponry and the best armor you can imagine, Carapace Armor, anything like a laser or plasma is half the time not going to dent the surface, their weaponry would also make it extremely hard to engage them up close, let's take the Space Marines that arrived in Comorragh, the city of the Dark Eldar, supernaturaly fast, agile, graceful and a mind made for spotting weak points, they got butchered by the Space Marines, even though it was an entire city, of ancient deadly beings against around 500 Marines, the regular basic firepower the Space Marines deploy is what Star Wars would consider heavy artillery, for example the Heavy Bolters, Heavy Flamers and Plasma Guns, more than enough to kill your average Sith warrior.

 

It's already been stated both the force and warp powers are used simultaneously.

 

And call it silly all you want, that's the setting, it's all out war for 40,000 years, Star Wars is centered around the force, something nowhere near as common as the warp powers are.

 

I prefer Star Wars personally, but they are absolutely out-matched here.

 

Battle meditation would not work because of commisars?Invading someone's mind won't work because there are cruel officers???Ok I get it.... nothing from starwars works now because 40K has to win no matter what.....

 

 

Thor's hammer?Ok do you have any idea of the completely ridiculus things Luke has done in EU?At the last fight with the Vong he was something like the force incarnate.He did defeat Abeloth if I remember right why have problems against chaos demons?

Yoda could move starfighters with his thoughts.....he would strip the space marine of his weapons with a mere gesture.

 

 

And guys like that clown, Starkiller, can actually pull STAR DESTROYERS from the sky!

 

don't get me wrong,I love the cool things about SW and not ****** ideas like those mentioned above but if you want to talk about silly OP things like Primarchs then we should include the whole SW cheese factory as well.

 

During the Mandalorian Wars there were some jedi who could prevail against Mandos riding Basilisks.And Basilisks can fly and have missiles.That's how fast and agile some jedi are.

 

 

Btw lightsabers can't stop explosions but force barriers can easily block them.And all the armour in the universe can't help you against telekinetic powers

 

 

Librarians can strip your soul but sith spirits always try to do that when someone uses their power.And Sith Lords can handle the pressure with ease

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[Yfelsung]

Battle meditation would not work because of commisars?Invading someone's mind won't work because there are cruel officers???Ok I get it.... nothing from starwars works now because 40K has to win no matter what.....

 

 

Thor's hammer?Ok do you have any idea of the completely ridiculus things Luke has done in EU?At the last fight with the Vong he was something like the force incarnate.

Yoda could move starfighters with his thoughts.....he would strip the space marine of his weapons with a mere gesture.

 

 

And guys like that clown, Starkiller, can actually pull STAR DESTROYERS from the sky!

 

don't get me wrong,I love the cool things about SW and not ****** ideas like those mentioned above but if you want to talk about silly OP things like Primarchs then we should include the whole SW cheese factory as well.

 

During the Mandalorian Wars there were some jedi who could prevail against Mandos riding Basilisks.And Basilisks can fly and have missiles.That's how fast and agile some jedi are.

 

An Alpha Plus level psyker could destroy the entire Imperial armada with one gentle swipe of his hand. He can open the warp and bring forth millions of demons with a thought. He could, potentially, create life with his will. The fluff has alluded to an Alpha Plus Level Psyker as being, effectively, a god.

 

Even the most powerful Jedi is only about equivalent to a gamma level psyker.

 

Space Marines fight and kill psykers all the time.

 

Then, of course, there are Librarians, who are Space Marine Psykers.

 

Imagine the most powerful Jedi of all time, wearing a tank. That's a Librarian.

[tadro]

An Alpha Plus level psyker could destroy the entire Imperial armada with one gentle swipe of his hand. He can open the warp and bring forth millions of demons with a thought. He could, potentially, create life with his will. The fluff has alluded to an Alpha Plus Level Psyker as being, effectively, a god.

 

Even the most powerful Jedi is only about equivalent to a gamma level psyker.

 

Space Marines fight and kill psykers all the time.

 

Then, of course, there are Librarians, who are Space Marine Psykers.

 

Imagine the most powerful Jedi of all time, wearing a tank. That's a Librarian.

 

the Sith Emperor of SWTOR is practically an Immortal who strips the life from entire planets

 

Darth Nihilus can do pretty much the same thing but without rituals.He just thinks about it and it happens

 

 

Darth Sion won't die unless he wants to

[Gomla]

don't get me wrong,I love the cool things about SW and not ****** ideas like those mentioned above but if you want to talk about silly OP things like Primarchs then we should include the whole SW cheese factory as well.

 

Don't need the whole OP Primarch argument.

 

Don't need Space Marines (although Mephiston would rip a Force user apart ... gotta love incredibly powerful Psykers. I won't mention the likes of Gideon Ravenor or any of the Chaos Psykers or Eldar Farseers).

 

I'll use just one species.

 

Tyranids.

 

Good luck with that one force users.

 

Yes I am a Warhammer fan. But I also cringe when I see comparisons made between 40k and Star Wars. From one that is more refined and subtle to a universe designed to be all out war and over the top barbaric.

[Rayla_Felana]

An Alpha Plus level psyker could destroy the entire Imperial armada with one gentle swipe of his hand. He can open the warp and bring forth millions of demons with a thought. He could, potentially, create life with his will. The fluff has alluded to an Alpha Plus Level Psyker as being, effectively, a god.

 

Even the most powerful Jedi is only about equivalent to a gamma level psyker.

 

Space Marines fight and kill psykers all the time.

 

Then, of course, there are Librarians, who are Space Marine Psykers.

 

Imagine the most powerful Jedi of all time, wearing a tank. That's a Librarian.

 

This.

 

I much prefer Star Wars, but 40K is all about the most powerful things you can think of going at each other in a never ending war, it's called WARhammer for a reason.

 

It's been debated before on more occasions than I'd like to recall, but 40k is the king of the Sci-Fi major league, when it comes to war against each other, even if you did defeat the Imperium of Man, you will have opened the floodgates for the warp and Chaos, to invade everything, everywhere, literally unleashing hell, never ending and eternal.

[tadro]

I already said that in all out war 40K universe wins

It's simply built that way

But one vs one SW has some pretty cheesy figures as well

[Rayla_Felana]

I already said that in all out war 40K universe wins

It's simply built that way

But one vs one SW has some pretty cheesy figures as well

 

Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, the God Emperor of Mankind himself.

[tadro]

The Force has a will

 

go figure

[Yfelsung]

the Sith Emperor of SWTOR is practically an Immortal who strips the life from entire planets

 

Darth Nihilus can do pretty much the same thing but without rituals.He just thinks about it and it happens

 

 

Darth Sion won't die unless he wants to

 

The God Emperor of Mankind, as a rotting corpse, has enough psychic ability left to prevent 4 gods from destroying the universe.

 

Typhus, first Captain of the Death Guard, is the living incarnation of The Destroyer Plague

The Destroyer Plague is a disease conjured by Nurgle, the Chaos God of Decay. It takes the form of warp-spawned flies that infest every orifice of the body and laying their eggs in their hapless victims. The victims' abdomens become bloated until they finally burst, unleashing another wave of plague flies to spread the contagion once more. The Destroyer is described as the most horrific and vile plague in Grandfather Nurgle's arsenal.

 

That's not even bringing in the Tyranids.

 

See, since Force Sensitivity is now Canonically biological in nature (midochlorians), this means that if ONE Tyranid ate ONE Jedi and made it back to the hive, ALL TYRANIDS BORN FROM THAT POINT FORWARD would be FORCE USERS.

 

Also Orks, with their technological mimicry, would be able to start using light weapons and potentially the force through the waaagh.

 

We're talking about a universe at war for 40000 years. They have warheads on ships that can do what the Death Star did and they have multiple warheads.

[tadro]

The God Emperor can't raise a finger and Chaos Gods can't interfere with a corporeal form so they aren't stronger than the Force if we are speaking about the metaphysical so there:

 

WH40K uses pompous words indeed but a SW fan could say

"in the end the Chaos Gods won but that was the will of the Force"

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[Rayla_Felana]

The Force has a will

 

go figure

 

Yet it's never been stated to be godlike, it could very well just be part of the symbiotic partnership between Person and Midichlorians, that affects the user's mind, which as we see, is the most likely truth of the matter, It in no way is suggested to be a godlike power.

[Yfelsung]

The God Emperor can't raise a finger and Chaos Gods can't interfere with a corporeal form so they aren't stronger than the Force if we are speaking about the metaphysical so there:

 

WH40K uses pompous words indeed

 

They can't interfere because the God Emperor is stopping them. He can't lift a finger, but he's still a powerful psychic entity.

 

He's actually, according to some older lore and some hints in newer stuff, the 5th chaos god.

 

The funny part is if they actually let him fully die, he'd be reborn as pure psychic energy and be able to wipe Chaos from existence, it's the golden throne itself that's stopping his ascension.

[tadro]

The Force has a will.Maybe it manifests through midichlorians when someone is alive but sith spirits and force ghosts dont have blood.The fabric of time and space doesnt have blood.But you can pierce the veil using the force and see the future the past or a distant place

SW doesnt use the word godlike because there are no gods in SW....lets be serious though u cant be any more godlike than the Force,as it is such a strong god that created a religion in another galaxy...our own(still talking about silly things)

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[Rayla_Felana]

The God Emperor can't raise a finger and Chaos Gods can't interfere with a corporeal form so they aren't stronger than the Force if we are speaking about the metaphysical so there:

 

WH40K uses pompous words indeed but a SW fan could say

"in the end the Chaos Gods won but that was the will of the Force"

 

Whom stated the God Emperor of Mankind is post-heresy? we are talking THE God of Emperor of Mankind, before heresy, also you clearly don't understand the Chaos powers if you think they even need to be corporeal, see the Horus Heresy.

[tadro]

i never said they need to be corporeal i said you can't compare them with corporeal creatures like sith lords

 

compare them with the Force

[Rayla_Felana]

The Force has a will.Maybe it manifests through midichlorians when someone is alive but sith spirits and force ghosts dont have blood.The fabric of time and space doesnt have blood.But you can pierce the veil using the force and see the future the past or a distant place

SW doesnt use the word godlike because there are no gods in SW....lets be serious though u cant be any more godlike than the Force

 

Now that's pure conjecture, I'd like to see the canon source for this, also, the force isn't in your blood, it can be in anything, midichlorians are everywhere, the force is everywhere, but nevertheless, we have NO canon evidence to suggest the force is a god, stop building strawmen.

[tadro]

the Force isn't a god but since it has a will it clearly falls within the "godlike" limits(being omnipresent and omnipotent as well)

 

 

i hope the meaning of my words comes across because english is far from my native language(obvioysly:P)

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[Yfelsung]

The Force has a will.Maybe it manifests through midichlorians when someone is alive but sith spirits and force ghosts dont have blood.The fabric of time and space doesnt have blood.But you can pierce the veil using the force and see the future the past or a distant place

 

The God Emperor and Chaos both also have wills.

 

There's a very interesting story about a Space Marine caught drifting in space for hundreds of years in semi-stasis. He falls to Chaos/goes insane and ends up in an army of combined Khorne and Tzeentch demons and marines.

 

This army would be devestating if it went on a crusade against the Imperium and sort of at the last minute the lone Space Marine realizes this, mentally repents and he turns to a Tzeetch troop screams "blood for the blood god!" and strikes him down. This leads to both sides turning on each other and the armies ripping themselves apart.

 

This story was an example of the will of Tzeentch and the will of the Emperor being in direct conflict. Tzeentch believed he arrival of this Space Marine was his will, but in the end it was the Emperor's will that this SM fell to chaos, because in the end the Emperor knew he would regain his senses and save the Imperium from the army.

 

The fate of the entire 40k universe is a psychic battle behind the scenes between Chaos and the Emperor.

 

Basically, two Forces, instead of the singular Force with two sides.

[Rayla_Felana]

the Force isn't a good but since it has a will it clearly falls within the "godlike" limits(being omnipresent and omnipotent as well)

 

Will=/=godlike.

 

Where as the ones I have stated, are confirmed Gods, they cannot be stopped by anything but the psychic barrier made by the God Emperor, Chaos have killed the Eldar gods (or something similar to that) and made the C'tan basically nothing, all of them had far greater effect than the force ever has.

[tadro]

I'm familiar with the Chaos vs Order theme as I am a long time fan of the WH fantasy rpg

 

I love all the pilosophical discussions about Chaos vs Order and Light Side vs Dark Side and it's a pity that I can do justice to these great themes only in my native language

[tadro]

Will=/=godlike.

 

Where as the ones I have stated, are confirmed Gods, they cannot be stopped by anything but the psychic barrier made by the God Emperor, Chaos have killed the Eldar gods (or something similar to that) and made the C'tan basically nothing, all of them had far greater effect than the force ever has.

 

 

 

Will,Omnipresent and omnipotent = very close to godlike themes and since the force is a product of actual religion you can see where this is going

 

 

anyway the Force is more subtle than the Chaos Gods but that's why I love SW more than WH(with WH fantasy being much better than 40k IMHO) as it creates a mystery much like Tolkien's magic if you know what I mean

Edited February 8, 2012 by tadro

[Yfelsung]

I much prefer 40k because over the years it has become the deeper setting compared to WHFB. WHFB is 3 years older, but once they came out with 40k it became their flagship franchise

 

WHFB is still cool, but I feel 40k feels very unique amongst other settings since it's fantasy and sci-fi mashed together in an odd way.

 

And there's still lots of mystery, like the origin of the Blood Ravens chapter, or the hints at the Emperor being a 5th chaos god, or the eternal question if "who and what exactly are Gork and Mork."

Edited February 8, 2012 by Yfelsung

[Rayla_Felana]

Will,Omnipresent and omnipotent = very close to godlike themes and since the force is a product of actual religion you can see where this is going

 

 

anyway the Force is more subtle than the Chaos Gods but that's why I love SW more than WH(with WH fantasy being much better than 40k IMHO) as it creates a mystery much like Tolkien's magic if you know what I mean

 

Exactly, the force would be more like an omni-present will, like Sephiroth in the livestream or Sauron in Middle Earth, but they still aren't gods, Melkor was, Illuvitar is, Jenova and Menerva are, but the force, Sauron, Sephiroth, they are demigods, that's my point.