Lol...you said wow and pvp. Wow pvp was a joke. Arenas are a joke. Battlegrounds are a joke. You want real pvp. Ultima, shadowbane, eve, darkfall. Those are hardcore pvp games. Games where a mistake in pvp didnt lose you a point. It could cost you all your gear, gold, player built city. Wow, who, and swtor pvp is just childs play compared to it.