pvp'rs and pve'rs want force wave. i am a pvp'r and want it, other pve'rs want it.

save force wave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS TOO MANY CHANGES TO THE JEDI SHADOW CLASS AT ONCE. FORCE SPEED/ FORCE WAVE/ AND STEALTH CHANGES!!??? ALL AT ONCE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD? WHAT?? TAKE YOUR TIME AND THINK ABOUT IT SWTOR!!

SAVE FORCE WAVE! SAVE FORCE WAVE! SAVE FORCE WAVE! SAVE FORCE WAVE! As a Consular Tank who feels completely useless 90% of the time. This ability at least made me feel powerful. It was my favorite ability!!!! It was fun to use as well!! In addition it just looks cool, it's a cool move. Hitting the people in front is lame looking, and not unique as far as gameplay goes. All characters hit things in front. That's why AOE is unique. Also it does a lot of damage. Hitting 4 to 5 people at once for 600 damage is good, especially when your a REAL tank (based on protection not damage). IF it only hits the people in front we will in fact be nerfed AGAIN!!! For someone like me who is already wasting his time in SURVIVOR gear I am very upset. I do not appreciate this. SWTOR is giving us other advantages with stealth, but then takes away force waves damage, and cool look, and feel. VERY VERY VERY ANGRY. WITH ALL THE TIME I PLAY ON THIS GAME....WHAT A WASTE!! THIS WILL TAKE A LOT OF FUN OUT OF PLAYING A CONSULAR!!!

I want to thank Austin and co for his hard work. Seems pretty good to me. Should make the game more interesting. I never used my force stun from far away anyway. I just recently started using it at a distance..cause I realized I could. I don't see a huge advantage in using it far away. This won't effect my game play and it seems fair. If we can all stun from 30 meters then we can stun someone non stop, that's just not fair. But lastly... AHHHH I love force wave! PLEASE DONT SCREW THIS UP!!! US TANKS STRUGGLE TO GET DAMAGE AS IT IS!!! IF YOU GUYS AT SWTOR MAKE IT "FACE FORWARD" ONLY our damage will go down again!! AND EVEN THOUGH ALL THIS NEW STUFF IS GREAT, WE STILL DON'T GET MORE PROTECTION/POINTS FROM OUR SKILLS. ALSO FACE FORWARD JUST SEEMS DUMB. THAT WAS MY FAVORITE MOVE!!! YOU RUINED IT IN TWO WAYS, VISUALLY AND DAMAGE WISE. I suggest you let the people behind at least get knocked back a little bit, and keep the damage!!!

I think you need to grow up a little bit. Please understand there are many different comments on each and every blog. This can confuse anyone. The wrong information can be put out by different posters. I won't report you for calling me a troll, or the others for calling me a nub (intentionally spelled that way to prevent being reported). But I could. This is what happen in my case. I read all the blog responses to the OP, and one of them confused me and may have the wrong info all together. I went back and reread the OP. So now I understand where the confusion came from and I agree with you. I think every class is equal. I understand how the OP sees it though. He is just debating pull vs push at the end of the day and saying he thinks push is better or something along those lines. This should have been a very simplistic blog post. All tanks have very similar abilities, and decent balance (like you show above). The debate is just about pull and push and it spiraled out of control. It just happens on blogs.

Man that's cool. I need to get my askmrrobot combat log to work. it never works for me. i use act at the moment.

Your first point is very important and I agree. I love the stories and the voice overs....when they are good. Now when they suck (almost half of the side missions and the first couple FP) that is a waste. I have been saying for a while now that SWTOR just needs to go back and make class quest stories stronger (add more action to the videos...rather than standing and talking..make the story more interesting and intense) and to not worry about FP/Side Quests etc. So point is...use that voice over time on something better. -------------------- As far as your last point, 3. "More content!!!!". I only agree with this if they get your point 1 correct. peace.

WOW. First off. I read the whole thing. It was written well. Second, I think I had an epiphany while reading this. I'll explain!!!!!!!! I am a Jedi Shadow Tank wearing war hero pvp survivor gear (absorb/shield). I only play pvp. O.K. so people keep bringing up threat. I only play PvP. So threat does nothing in PvP right?!!! I didn't invent Absorb/Shield PvP gear. Bio Ware did. That is the whole point behind this post. I wear Absorb PvP gear because I thought it helped, and when I first started as a "noob" to mmo's and this game I was under the impression that absorb based gear was my class specific gear (unless u chose to use a focus) now I think it might not help at all, at least in PvP! Other tanks wear power based gear and get double the numbers of me. How can they get more protection when I have 3 extra absorb stats on every piece of clothing? Because killing enemies also creates survivability, that's why!! This is why Bio Ware needs to fix ONLY the gear for REAL TANKS. But I think I know why they didn't.... Again I didn't create the gear I use, Bio Ware did. It has no good use what so ever. It should have a UNIQUE advantage but it doesn't. So if everyone thinks it's worthless it needs to be removed from the game or fixed. DUH DUNH DUH!! Ok here is my epiphany. But it's not without some new revelations. 1.) Being the last "two". THATS IT! Thats how you get high protection. I mean I already knew with a healer you could do this, but that is exactly why. When you are the last two, everyone will hit you. You will get all your protection numbers there! So now that I know this I can try to focus on making this happen more often, and hopefyully get my protetion up. Again I knew a healer helped...but this is why a healer should be gaurded and not other people (like some suggested) because if the healer/tank combo can last till the end they will "absorb" all that extra damage. That is how the numbers go up in protection. 8x2 will output way more protection than 2x2 or 4x2. Healer/tank combo is more important than guarding whoever is getting hit. 2.) A new revelation, but the same old problem; The thing is I don't always last that long, even with a healer. Because I can't kill anyone. To survive at least a little bit I need to kill people. I can't EVER win 1x1. I just started being able to kill people (rather then just finish them off). So we are back to the fact that a tank with power can KILL these people making his survivability longer in the end than the tank who uses "survivor" armor! So again this post is about that, even with my epiphany I am at the same conclusion. A balance of damage and armor can keep you alive longer then survivor gear, making you a true survivor, so you can guard your healer longer. That is the only way I can imagine these people get 300,000 protection of even 200,000. So eliminate the gear, and give me a refund Bio Ware. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! For the millionth time people. This is how I got into this problem. THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF TANKS. Changing the skill tree, effects ALL OF THEM. This is what keeps making everyone so imbalanced. ITS THE GEAR. THE GEAR is specific to EACH kind of tank. Real tanks would only suffer AGAIN. From this or vice versa. It's the gear, not the skill tree!

Working on it

I am a level 50 valor 75 tank who get's first place in medals very often. I have never, ever got over 200 damage, and I have never earned more than 180,000 protection. I am in almost full warhero, survivor gear, and I am a Jedi Shadow. I THINK THE BLOG HAS GONE A LITTLE OFF TRACK. THE POINT OF THIS BLOG IS MERELY THAT OTHER TANKS ARE GETTING MORE DAMAGE AND MORE PROTECTION THEN ME (about double), THEREFORE THE GEAR I WASTED MY HARD EARNED CREDITS ON IS MEANINGLESS AND HAS NO BENEFIT WHAT SO EVER. STAYING ALIVE IS APPARENTLY THE ONLY ADVANTAGE, BUT IF YOU ARE STRONG ENOUGH (do a lot of damage as a tank) YOU WILL STAY ALIVE TOO BECAUSE YOU CAN FINISH OFF OTHER OPPONENTS.

I understand most of this. The way I see it is the majority of people want to do damage. They don't want to be a real tank so BW helped them out by lowering their protection to make it more fair, prob is REAL tanks got nerfed simultaneously. Isn't it an easy fix to just make survivor gear stronger? Damage based tank gear would stay the same...absorb based tank gear (survivor) would be the only thing that would change.

Thanks for the help everyone! I try to improve my game everyday! Again, if people cheat, how am I to improve my self? I can't be a fair judge of myself, if the game isn't fair, and I won't have the "fair" to pay for great gear if I don't win sometimes! lol. That is my defense anyway. Also if no one tries to stop it then it will happen more and more, so I disagree with the comments that say not to be concerned about it. Also I haven't heard a good defense for why 700,000 couldn't be cheating. If tweaks are possible, why wouldn't it be possible for damage? Also people who cheat are smart. They would never make it super noticeable. MOST IMPORTANTLY...in my combat logs, timing is the biggest enemy of getting low damage (dips on the graph) so if you can find a way to stay alive longer and run to enemies faster those dips will disappear and almost double your damage. In that case a speed hack could def increase your damage, but I am aware that it's usually transcendence. Although the other day I was fighting someone who was moving so fast, and for such a long amount of time I knew it wasn't transc. So please report cheating. It's not fair.

There has to be compromises guys. Penalties shouldn't be immediate. You should be able to leave if you absolutely have to at least once or twice a week. This would help both sides of the controversy out. Also not queuing against guilds isn't fair to them either. Who will they play? A level 50 bolster, and rewards to pugs for communicating in chat, or using a built in voice client (like vent etc.) is a better compromise. Please compromise

You are half right. I gave up on PvE and only play PvP, because I have wasted countless hours trying to get PvE groups together with no success. In the last two months I probably wasted a whole days work of time waiting to get the right group of people together for EV, or LI etc. only to have it fall apart. On top of that I invited a new friend to start from Lv 1 with me only to find out I had to do all the missions twice because we choose the same class. Sorry. This is a game, it shouldn't be that complicated to have fun. My friend stopped playing too.

EXACTLY. and this is why PvP in SWTOR works so well and why Ranked PvP doesn't. Cause ranked PvP is like regular PvE in some ways. PvE needs more freedom and randomness. It's overridden with restrictions.

Come on please explain what min/max damage is? Why is it on my lightsaber? but nothing else. and not all lightsabers?

How about make the content that is there worthwhile? Non repetitive, worth doing (side missions could be localized and spontaneous), stories need more depth and pull. Just my opinion. Adding more "flavors" and "spices" don't fix a bad pot of stew. You have to go back and simplify it. I got bored of the confusing, repetitive missions at level 20, pvp'd all the way from there. Haven't even finished class quest. Valor 75.

I love all these things. Preach it sister! How about a fun quick and easy 16 man raid! Take notes from GW2! At least I can have fun and not wait around for a group there.!! That is the only way 16 man raids would work anyway. It would have to a be a spontaneous and local thing, that everyone has access to, like the last world event.

Preach it brother!

I agree, playing a tank is very fun in SWTOR. I play non stop (pvp). I appreciate your help. I do all these things. I am aware of how protecting the healer helps. That's the only way I can get my protection past 60,000. With a good healer friend I can only get about 150,000 though. I am not full War Hero but very close. Anyway part of the CONFUSION is that I have had a couple people on here tell me it makes no difference who you guard and that it's all the same, some people have said not to even waste your time on the healer on occasion. I started to believe them, if they are wrong that means that a tanks biggest fight is against time. When I look at my combat log it shows this. Dips in time are what prevents me from damage and protection. A healer lasts longer so I don't have to reguard and all those seconds in between (from regaurding) add more protection I guess. Not sure. But thanks for the post! I have some questions about it! 1>) why do you say this. * Dont overlap taunts with cc, coz you are wasting your taunts." I use them a lot because at the end of the day my goal is to protect the healer, not get protection, and if I am getting cc'd over and over again (like some other posters said guilds might do), it gives the healer more time to heal and me more time to kill the enemy before the enemy cc's me. In addition the enemy takes more damage after I cc 6% to 9% more. Anyway so does this directly interfere with my protection? Or are you just saying that it prevents them from doing damage therefore takes away from my protection rating? 2>) You said, "Use taunt, aoe taunt, intercede on cooldown." I don't have intercede. I 'm a jedi shadow. I guess maybe the closest thing I have is Kinetic Ward. I'm still trying to understand how Kinetic Ward works 100%. I made about 3 posts a couple months ago and I still don't get it. Someone on the blogs here had me thinking maybe it protects me from damage a little, but I'm not sure. I'm a jedi shadow, I think that's part of the reason I'm a bit confused. 3>)*"Make sure you arent taunting healers by mistake" why is this? I never heard of this before.

I have to say that it's funny you are saying this because you can actually get high protection and damage. Some of us can't. I would love to get your numbers. How you do that I don't know. I have been doing all the right things (anything mentioned in this blog) and still can't get those numbers. Maybe once I'm fully geared I will...not sure. I do great. I get number one a lot. I last a long time. I almost got 0 deaths against the strongest guild on our server today, but numbers like that? no. I still get made fun of very bad if I have a tough day cause my damage and protection is so low. anyway thanks for the tips though. they are helpful. could you please explain this statement. I don't understand. u stand little to no chance against 3+ good dps once you pop your CDs because you cannot dodge/shield any white damage and that extra 10% dodge and 30% shield chance + absorb helps a tremendous amount. extra 10% dodge? what and 30% shield?

thx for posting!

Thanks so much for giving an actual point!! Big props! Point well taken. I am a keyboard player. I hate the mouse, even on GW2 moving the mouse is annoying (SWTOR is easier to use as far as this goes). So the less I have to do with the mouse the better...but you do have a good point here with the multiple pick ups thing:) I encourage you to rethink this. SWTOR has huge social problems, I always try to do missions with people and am never successful either because someone has to leave, we can't find the right kind of players, or because someone is a jerk, and so on....To me it has nothing to do with the gimmicky feel you speak of. To me it's about executing social missions, swiftly and to have fun without waiting all day. If a guild is doing a side mission near by and I just happen to be there...it would be so fun to do run over and do it with them...whispering etc. is creepy as well and doesn't have good results, asking for help in the chat window also has poor results, and GF isn't perfect either. To me this would solve at least half of those problems. This would only help BW make more money as I don't do side missions at all anymore. So the more time I spend doing them, the more time I play the game. The same goes with Heroics. Making this huge effort to whisper to people over and over again, or to ask in gen chat is tough. Someone reported me the other day just cause I asked for help with a mission... Rad. Think about this... Perspective vs. Reality is what we should consider when we feel like we are in a "big" or "huge" world. Having a "big" world, and feeling like you are in a "big" world are two completely diff things. It's possible to have a super small world, the size of the fleet, but for that to feel huge!! Example: to have weather change constantly, new missions constantly, tools and items everywhere, friends, foes everywhere...in a place the size of the fleet! That to me would be percived as "huge" compared to a "huge" world with what seems like very little going on, and endless walking. I feel like the SWTOR worlds are empty, and endless. So my point is just because it is "big" doesn't mean it feels "big". Man I don't have time to get in to this but this is the single most mechanic I can't stand about PvE. Let me simplify. When you are the same class you have to do the same story twice even with same class story checked (I have posted multiple blogs about this), if you are a class from diff planets it doesn't work at all in the beginning, and if you are benefiting classes (same planet) doing two missions at once is hard to follow and takes double the work. I just don't have the attention span for that. Yet that is the most reasonable thing to do. Yet what about the rest of us who chose to do this diff and didn't know at first? There goes two more customers down the drain...because they were confused, annoyed, and tired, so they gave up. The PvE is awesome it's like Zelda mixed with Final Fantasy. Doesn't get much better than that. I was just on it today and there were countless people playing PvE, way more then in WvW. Way more people do PvE than PvP there. That's at least how it seems. I like SWTOR PvP way more, and it's a lot different.

Also please don't post unless you have meaningful statements. Just saying you don't like something helps no one, and is really a waste of time. Give a valid argument please. When you do this I can only assume; 1.) You just hate GW2 and are being bias. 2.) That you work for SWTOR and you are being prideful (if this is the case your game will fail!!). 3.) Don't like being social, cause GW is 10x more social then SWTOR. Also you didn't even try to communicate a point here. If that's how you are fine. 4.) You like what some would consider boring games, which is a preference and is fine. But don't be afraid to say it. 5.) You never played GW2

Are you kidding? The GW PvE is amazing. It works so easily, flows so smoothly with no problems, and is so easy to team up with friends. Well hey, enjoy SWTOR because unless they make PvE more fun and easy to use. I'm gone.