I may be way off the mark here but you must consider the word "DPS". For tanks there is some confusion with this word. Damage Per Second can mean anything. To me it means a tank equipped with POWER/WILLPOWER. To some people it means equipping a focus in addition and not having shield. You can have a shield and be DPS tank in a way by having non-absorb gear. So my question is what kind of DPS are you talking about?

AND PLEASE BE CORRECT WHEN TALKING ABOUT TANKING. THERE IS A HUGE DIFF BETWEEN A TANK EQUIPPED WITH ABSORB AND ONE EQUIPPED WITH OUT IT. A tank without absorb, maybe equipped with power is unstoppable. A tank with absorb, when playing hard, does well but get's very little credit because his numbers are very low. It is possible to get lots of medals though.

I appreciate your comments! They really help! Not everyone wants to give away their secrets, or waste time on someone else's thoughts anyway, so thank you. But we have to bring this back to the starting point. Point is simple> 1). a "full absorb" tank does not get credit because of the numbers on the screen at the end of the game. 2). or because he REALLY isn't doing as much as he claims since his gear is "nerfed". (my primary point, that my gear is just a waste in comparison to other tanks). Example> We Just Don't Get Credit, Even Though I Believe We are Vital. 1). Healers and DPS are getting 300,000 this and 500,000 that and when everyone sees our numbers it's no higher than 90,000 protection. Sometimes I see 150,000 (rare in pug) and once a month I might see 200,000. Even when you add damage against protection on average your lucky to hit 200,000-250,000. If we are such a vital asset...we should get credit at the end of the game. Bullying and nasty comments are not fun...and when some one sees you get 90,000/90,000 and they just got 500,000 they aren't gonna want to be in your group/guild etc. You guys say "tanks" take control of the field. Well we can't if semi experienced players don't believe us because of these numbers. No one will listen to us. Pug is a part of WZ's too and we deserve to get credit there as well, not just in guilded matches. Some of us don't have the schedule or the time to be in a guild btw. We deserve more points...somewhere for something...across the board those numbers should be closer...if two great tanks play against two great dps..protection should be 500,000 just like their damage is 500,000. That's just a fact. Or we should have another category for something else we do well. 2.) The gear. Even if you disagree with the first point you can't disagree with the fact that someone with COMPLETELY DIFF gear can get the same or more points in protection. The whole point of wearing absorb gear is to get your protection up, just like DPS gear get's damage/kills up. The problem is our protection doesn't go "up" anymore than someone wearing non absorb gear. That is the plain and simple truth. If the GEAR is doing something extra that we are unaware of...than it should be documented at the vendor, and we should see something extra at the points screen at the end of a WZ match.

Unfortunately this wouldn't help out REAL TANKS, since the gear would not be affected by this. The tanks that have power or dps gear could also use these benefits you speak of (skill tree). That's the problem. Tanks with power rating or DPS gear get 500,000 and 200,000 protection (at least power rated). REAL TANKS...with absorb are the ones who need help, they don't get close this..cause absorb rating does barely anything. We need our gear reworked. We need some shield included and more absorb.

This I disagree with. The tank tree is amazing. Besides commando it's the only class in SWTOR that has some cool abilities....force pull, force in balance, slow time...etc are all really fun and unique. Maybe you are speaking of the stats?

the thing is I can't even stay alive 1 on 1. it's usually a close call. and im almost full war hero, I use all my buffs, and my strongest attacks. I do great in WZ's. I do get #1 in medals once or twice a day ( I play about 6 a day). And I do the job of a tank in sticking around and taking turrets...and being an asset in that way. Although a lot of this has to do with the shadow part, not the tank part. My point is that...other jedi shadows seem to do the same....or at least bring MORE damage, and MORE protection all at once...simply because they have gear W POWER etc. or are dps. The Absorb gear should have more protection...but it doesn't....and those people who told me it helps a little, should have never said that no offense. My character is fun to play, and I like to play them a lot. I'm just saying it's not fair when someone with the exact same class etc. has the same lv gear (WH) but not only do they get triple the damage, but they also get the same amount of protection. and yes i know how to get my protection rating up...i have received 170,000 (not full auged and still need 3 pieces of WH). REG TANKS are fine, they are unstoppable. SURVIVOR gear tanks are not.

i see. thanks for clarifying I have every toon except for trooper. lol. I didn't know that. can they stealth? that's probably the equalizer.

Some of these ideas are great, but there has to be compromises. Some times you absolutely have to leave, and sometimes a pug might have been disconnected (wifi). You can't permanently ban that person from playing with you just cause he had one bad day. Again..there needs to be a compromise, a limit...like 3 times a week, 6 times a week...then a penalty. I like the "check box for choosing not to play with high level guilds" option....but..who will a guild play if no other guilds are on? What if the guild groups are uneven? I think a bolster buff to the weaker team is more fair for everyone.

Thanks for the tips! I'll keep that in mind! It's a relief to know I'll have a second chance, and that others will have to regrind too.

Thanks for your help! By the way we have the same skill spec! 31-0-10. I do everything you listed except I have questions about two things. 1. I am curious as to the distance, and how it works, not only of guard but more importantly of taunt. It seems about the same distance but I'm not sure. 15 mtrs? 2. Guard swapping. I used to do this all the time but I found it made my damage lower. Either way this week I tried it, and tried it properly. I guarded who ever was getting hit the most (by looking at their health bar) over and over again and I didn't seem to get more than 30,000 damage if that. I was just experimenting. If I would have been fighting more I may have got my protection up...but no where near 200,000. ALL I CAN SAY is that I have noticed one thing. Those guardians who have POWER SPEC GEAR or at least don't waste their time on an absorb rating do much better with protection than me. And I try very very hard. It has to be the gear. Plus tons of people on here agree that the absorb gear is a waste. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME NUMBERS ON ABSORB GEAR!

Thanks for telling me this. I really didn't know that. Just more reason that Bio Ware has problems. They never list enough info IN GAME. Thanks again Bio Ware for making us come to your website and search endlessly... Secondly I already knew that to get my protection up I had to take damage, it was just obvious from my combat logs. Yet I still thought GUARD gave me protection. Am I right? Don't tell me i'm stupid for thinking this, that makes sense. Protecting some one = Protection...? I'm lost now. I thought you received protection; 1.) from guarding others 2.) from taunt 3.) from your own shield...whatever that ability is called...with the rocks I'm not sure how to track this in my combat logs...or if it's possible

i have this same problem but with shadow strike. so are you guys saying that saber is melee...not force...and that it's not affected by accuracy?

ok, i apologize. i mean SHADOW STRIKE. my shadow strike misses a lot, most other things don't though. but I have trouble keeping up my damage, most I can get on average is 100,000. this is why i might make BW give me all my coms back for my gear, because survivor gear has absolutely no advantage in the smallest way. also I only PvP, so I don't need to worry about threat for that right?

i did read the post. you can't leap to target because that is already an ability for a different class. your equivalent is Force Pull. if BW just gave this ability to you randomly, like stated, than it would be unfair to everyone else. If they gave you this ability BW would have everyone doing Force Leap, Force Pull, and Force Push making PvP less unique, and more boring. but i agree with the poster who said your force speed, in combo with jumping is good. i use that all the time, there is even a trick that if you press some buttons really fast that you can do force wave in the air without hitting the ground. maybe that will help you? Now I do think full tanks should be able to teleport but that's because we're disadvantaged///well at least full tanks are.

ABSOLUTELY NOT (*but see bottom). In league of legends they try to pull that fancy stuff, in addition the matches are 20 min long. Sometimes i have to pee real bad, sometimes I have to check on my kids, sometimes my wife comes home and im not supposed to be playing, sometimes I'm playing We Haz Cookies (the guild) and just know I will lose no matter what I do because I'm fighting a full WH with augs guild, with Vent and tons of experience. How would you even get close...to winning? Point is it's really nice and convenient to leave. It helps us normal people out. If you add a penalty than more people just won't queue at all...people who are unsure...maybe they have to feed their annoying yelping dog...maybe not...but now they won't queue at all so they don't get penalized! *I would maybe agree to a "6 penalties a week" compromise. It would play out like this..."You can only leave 6 times a week.", "after that you lose 50 coms per match". Now that's smart, that would limit cheating (which undoubtedly happens in this form), and would encourage some to stay but others to leave if they want.

This would help us be more tactical and STRESS the importance of our class as we seem unwanted, frowned upon etc. in PvP. I would only like it if I could use it in PvP that's the whole point because in PvP we look bad. Read my other post, with more details, here; http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525496

So FULL TANKS get a lot of crap. There are so many debates going on here that it makes your head hurt just reading one. My suggestion is this. Give us tanks a new TACTICAL ADVANTAGE ABILITY at the WH vendor (can i suggest teleport!!?). WHY? Well we never get enough credit, our numbers look pooey (100,000 dmg/100,000 protect!! wahooo!!). There are people getting 500,000 damage out there. We get made fun of for not doing enough damage etc. absorption armor seems like a waste...at least I've been looking into it for 6 months and I see no advantage. So my suggestion is to give us an ability that makes us even MORE TACTICAL...for both factions. This way people will start to see us as USE FULL! Because it's very depressing, angering, etc. when you get to level 50 full WH with absorption and realize ...you seem worthless to most people. This ability would help get the message across that, "FULL TANKS aren't pooey!!!" At least if our numbers look bad people will look at us as something more than numbers!!

Dude you just have a lot of time. That's good. But some of us don't. I play for two hours a day, and still can't reach FULL WAR HERO. On top of that I have a Shadow Tank who can't get any freakin' absorption in PvP. Btw I'm very interested in your stats. I know nothing about PvE. Anyway I spend all day trying to FIG out what's wrong with my SHADOW TANK. So there are us...who struggle with one single class. I take a lot of time experimenting, and blogging...trying to figure out what to do. I also PvP all day long...haven't even finished all my class quests and I'm almost 80 valor. Anyway. Congrads. And there's nothing wrong with going to play another game. That's a good thing. It will give you a break from SWTOR. Than when GW2 get's a little boring you can come back and it will be refreshing. That's how life is (with most things, not everything). So enjoy the "flavors" or life. Hope to see you back soon in a couple of months!!

"Do not guard your healer?" You mean because some one else's energy is draining? Yeah that makes sense. Still it sounds funny, cause that's all you ever hear. Can you explain?

NO necessarily DPS...just POWER SPEC. It's call mystics gear, its war hero. It has no absorb. just power and willpower.

There won't be many REAL TANKS.....read my recent post....it's just a waste for us...we can get almost the same amount of protection from not being a real tank... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525192&highlight=tank

Ok....surprised no one said it. You get FORCE PULL. It is the equivelent to FORCE LEAP and FORCE PUSH for your class. I LOVE FORCE PULL AND USE IT LIKE A BEAST. I SAVED OUR TEAM FROM CAPPING THE TURRET TODAY WITH IT. I HAD THE "CAPPER" TARGETED WHILE I WAS TAKING A BEATING IN THE CORNER. EVERYONE ELSE FROM MY TEAM DIED...I HIT FORCE PULL>>>AND BAM JUST MISSED THE CAP!! LOL...than my team got there just in time... this is CLASSIC tanking. **make sure you use your cycle..through enemy target for this...not "closest" enemy"> see preferences. You need to be able to cycle through your enemies to use force pull like a beast.

Yeah I would like to know more. Because I know my Saber Strike (stab) misses a lot in my combat logs. and our class struggles to get damage as it is (well I'm a full tank). So this is really important to me. I figured maybe accuracy would help...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525192&highlight=tank HERE THAT"S WHERE... ITS THE POST I JUST MADE ABOUT HOW FULL TANKS ARE A WASTE. BW NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IM GOING TO ANOTHER GAME UNTIL IM FIXED. FIX THE REAL TANKS, DONT FIX REGULAR TANKS!

See I can't even get to 150,000 damage without going insane on the keyboard with aoe's! lol. I am almost full war hero. I still top the charts with medals but...everyone makes fun of me. very annoying. i feel I try my absolute best...and I have no high numbers like other players. anyway thanks for the nice speech though, it was very helpful! and your right it's all about fun!! Thanks!!