They have said that the majority of all stats have been reworked so maybe stack crit is more beneficial. We won't know more until more theory crafting is done on the new dr's for stats. example- Expertise now seems to not slope so hard at 500 anymore and that its more beneficial to stack 700+ now. Quote from this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=364314 The diminishing return formula for several stats (including expertise) has been adjusted. So if expertise has changed so much I am sure the other stats have very interesting changes also.

So why are you comparing a PT and a assassin in vacuum? Let me try this. OMG I hate fighting snipers up on the top railing in huttball they put that shield thing down and i can't pull them, I can't knock them back. I have no gap closer. Why cant I leap up to them ***!! They just can pot shot me until I get close ***!! Speaking of which I know juggs have a ability that I cant use pull on them not sure what its called but I know I have tried it and it doesnt work. I think its op.

QFT Its all about were they fit in! Think for a second OP if you are running a raid or op can you use a tank assassin to tank for you? Yes are they better at it than a guardian, a jugg, or a vanguard/pt? No they are adequate that is all. Yes assassin/shadow tank is good in 1v1 against alot of classes but this isnt COD everything is objective base and when more people stop getting stuck on this 1v1 crap all the time they will be better for it and wont have these kinds of threads pop up. Is a tank assassin better at carrying the ball than a jugg or guardian? yes but so is a sorc. Holding a point by yourself in alderaan? i say a draw between juggs and assassins and guardians, and pt's. You can hold it long enough to type inc west!! thats for sure between all the tank specs. So whats the problem again? Huttball right? So what your not the best at carrying the ball but your alot better at pursuit of the ball carrier to stop them from scoring. you can leap all over the place all i can do is pull and I gotta make that pull count. I dont get a refresh of my pull, or my force speed from any ability. Juggs get refresh from push.

Channelled move can be knocked back not interrupted! lmao so stun them dude or knock them back. I dont fight sorcs waiting to use my interrupt every single time. Stop using so much tech and force attacks and use some white damage. I would rather have sentinels guarded by the force over resilience any day of the week. Or that bubble pt's have.

Tank shadows are middle of the road. They dont have the best damage and dont have the best mitigation. So nerf them so they have the worst mitigation? Oh wait they already do. Which is compensated by the fact they have more utility. Sooo whats the problem here again?

Not a problem

Warstalker Stalker's Headgear Bind On Pickup Helm 501 Armor (Rating 154) Durability: 80/80 Item Modifications: Augment Requires Level 50 Taken from darthhater.db http://db-ptr.darthhater.com/recipes/5941/warstalker_stalkers_headgear/

I read the same thing just implants and earpieces have no requirement nothing about the other pieces

I think the change is fine it appeases those that did grind it out. So other still have to go through somewhat of a grind and still gives progression. Champion gear is not that far off from bm anyway. Is it better in most cases? Yes but not by alot.

OP doesnt know how to pass ball just wants to run around and kill people

From this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=356465&page=10

OP must be pugging. If you are deception you need healer no question

The problem is getting pvp gear as it stands right now doesnt require you to be hardcore at all. Yea a person with some good luck and that plays a ton will get champ faster than you but not by alot. You still have cenurion pieces that give the expertise. The problem is people DON"T KNOW how the pvp gear works imo. I mean a person that only pve's and has full columi can jump in to a warzone no problem and do well. I think people assume getting gear is hard and havent tested its the same attitude with PTS changes. When 1.2 hits the people that play pvp nonstop will still get warhero gear faster cause bw isnt that crazy to make it so champ = warhero so it solves nothing. You can be full cent in 5 days thats enough to get you to 500 expertise/10% if you get a unassembled piece thats even faster you get it. As it stands now I just can't see how anyone hoping into pvp as a fresh 50 and understands the system as it is now can honestly say its hard to get gear now. I think the people saying it is have no clue. If you honestly know how the system works there should be no issue if you are getting rolled for a few days. You dont ding 50 and run eternity vault nightmare mode unless you were handed some gear or have a stellar team around you that carried you.

Agree with OP. What the OP is saying that PvP gear should be viable in PvE as it is now! A BM geared tank isn't as good as a full Rakata Tank but he is viable allowing him access to become full rakata through raiding. Most certainly the ops and hms will become harder as they have said in the summit so pvp gear wont be as viable in those HM but as long as their is not a large barrier to entry everything should be fine. Its the same thing casuals or pver's are asking for and already have being able to take there columi gear into warzones now mix in a little expertise and profit.

Its not hard to get gear to compete. Centurion is not the greatest gear yes but the way they have changed things now you can get it faster. The problem is people don't realize how easy it is to get your centurion to put you at decent level. Then on to champ. It doesnt rake long witht he way they have changed things already. 1.1.5 should be the way it stays. If anything just make the centurion gear purchasable so people can get the expertise they need up then go on to champ and bm and war hero gear. problem solved. Its only the expertise stat that hurts those that dont do hms. Once you hit 10% you can slot in your pve stuff. Its really simple just make cent buyable at vendor

take the gear progression away and it will cause min/max teams that can't be beat unless you have the same combination of abilities. Hypothetically speaking if everyone is on the same level gear wise, lets say the best combination team from a abilities perspective is 3 sages 3 tanks 1 dps 1 ranged dps. If that combination is the best in game then there is no way to overcome in a premade environment. People can be lazy get their gear that is handed to them and makes them equal and not even so much as CTRL+Right Click once to itemize. Right now people take champ enhancements to put in BM gear and there is some playing around with what you do to make sure your set up correctly. Of course this is class dependent also. If its so dumbed down as to "Here is your gear go play" a min/maxed team is going to be impossible to beat. People will eventually figure out what is best combination those that like to eeek out the most efficient setup will figure it out. So joe is pugging it up loves pvp wants to do ranked gets his gear that puts him on equal level grabs his buddies who rolled the class they "liked" though not optimal. They get rofl stomped by the min/maxed teams all day long. So joe says my team sucks im joining those guys and they say sorry buddy your team doesnt fit the composition. Right now you can over come some of your class inefficiencies through stats. If everyone is the same it will be impossible.

The best way to please all camps is instead of making a easy to get "champion gear type set" which is what they are supposedly doing. Why not just make centurion gear the fresh 50 gear? With this change all in 1.2 they are essentially saying centurion gear is useless. While it isnt champion or BM gear it does give expertise which gives you a chance and lets you understand how the pvp gear progression system works. Everything else they have done up till 1.1.5 I think is a happy medium. Its easier to get geared now. Valor is increased. There you go. These arguments of, if you don't pvp for fun then you dont like pvp is a dumb argument it is totally in the realm of reason that I like to battle against other people and get something in return. I don't think there have been to many arguments were people are stating "I NEED GEAR PROGRESSION IN PVP TO ENJOY IT" they are saying that it adds incentives to do something they already enjoy. Example you are pugging it up with a bad team you know your gonna lose but you still finish the game why? The Valor, The Comms, The Gear. Gear progression in pvp can help you overcome some of the shortcomings of your class. If everybody has the same gear then the best team make ups are going to be those that have the best synergy. If you arent using a class that fits into that synergy then this might cause people to not be allowed to join. When the rated warzones hit if everyone is equal footing then the top teams will be a team composed of say 3 sorcs, 2 juggs, 2 bh, 1 sniper just as a example. People will come to figure what is the 100% best team composition. This will cause more qq nerf threads because your group of friends that rolled their favorite class can't compete with a min/maxed group of 8 which in turn forces BW to keep messing with class balance over and over and over again causing FOTM switches.

After reading alot on these forums and looking at the stats. It seems to me with the way the stats increase and expertise increases. All BM allows you to do is itemize your other stats better with mixing and matching mods adding in some rakata. If 500-550 is the ideal amount of valor with DR kicking in at 10% currently then ideally you want the 10% and then focus your attention on whatever other stats are important to you. Am I understanding this correctly? I am not currently BM yet need 4 more levels for BM but I currently have 512 expertise and thats a mix of cent and champ gear (main hand, off hand, earpice, 1 implant, Bracers, Belt) everything else is cent. TL,DR If I equip relic I jump to 560. So I remove relic drop to 512 and can mess with mods somewhat to focus on crit and surge. Now seeing as BM give you the excess expertise and full champ does also am I safe to assume that moving up in tier in pvp gear just allows you to itemize your stats better? Of course you get your min-max damage increase from main hand.

500-550 is considered the ideal amount of expertise. You can get that in about a week with a mix of weeklies and dailies and a mix of champ and cent. Going from BM and Champ only means you can itemize other stats a bit better since you have a excess of expertise.

Now I present to the OP reading to tide him over. You should be looking at this information instead of threads where people are either happy with what they get from kinetic or those that hate it cause they can't beat it in 1v1. Though this is a team based pvp game. Astral Fires Shadow Handbook http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=458 Shadow Tanking Compendium http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-Jedi-Shadow-Tanking-Compendium#Credits For perspective on other tanks which it seems op doesnt have. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=19170#post19170

At guild summit Georg Zoeller said that he knows people forgo accuracy. He also said that he knows that people feel that defensive stats don't really work in pvp. He also said that he knows people stack offensive stats instead of defensive stats basically going with "Offense is a Good defense" Hmmm sounds like BW knows whats going on with every class in the game to me. A shadow tank can carry the ball in huttball but if I had to choose id rather give it to a fully specced tank not off-tank which is what the kinetic shadow is. OP if you really did look around for an objective thread as opposed to ones that support your claim. You would have seen several threads basically stating that the kinetic shadow is like last in mitigation vs other tanks and first or second in damage compared to other tanks.

OP doesnt come back to his own thread realizing how idiotic he now looks for a failed troll.

I watched the live stream! I saw the guy ask the question. He clearly was talking about straight up autofacing. What the guy was asking was basically for hit detection and that he was being strafed and hated it "I want autofacing cause I cant deal with strafing" The guy said "I don't pvp much but I enjoy it" he probably is a keyboard turner too not a bad thing he just probably isnt that good if he cant deal with strafing. SOoo fail post on your part Bioware answered him correctly which is why everyone in attendance CLAPPED!!!

You will have to be patient when they come in the form of merges or character transfers. To those that are on a low pop server have any of you tried to make a community? I currently play on one of the lowest pop servers Eidelon Security which had standard pop on sunday and saturday. I was all for leaving, rerolling then I did something about it. I made friends!! Chatted with complete strangers joined a guild. My guild even shares a teamspeak server with the main empire guild. We have illum fights and our 50 pvp pops often during peak now that we have started communicating. So i suggest in the mean time either reroll, wait, or just make friends its really not that hard and this is my first MMO and I play on a low pop server myself. We have ops going, hm's, the only thing we are lacking is anyone at battlemaster which I happen to have the highest rank on republic side at level 55 currently.

^ I'm with this also